My Dog Seems To Have Issues With The Concept Of Seperate Commands

[Shinon]

OK, I adopted a 7 year old Maltese cross last year, in February (She just turned 8) and ever since April last year I've been trying to teach her two commands: Sit and Lie down. I had asked the shelter staff if she had any training done before, and they said not as far as they were able to discover, though Maltese generally pick up on basic commands pretty quickly. So I thought, fair enough. So, I took home a 7 year old (estimated, though the vets said she could possibly be even older) dog with dental problems and a grade 1 medical patella. She was a bit shy when we first got home. Actually, scrap that, she was TERRIFIED when we first got home. It took a while to get her to trust us. She settled down nicely once she discovered we meant no harm and her kibble played an important role as well in those first few months.

In April, she was almost a completly different dog. So I decided to teach her some basic commands, namely what I had in mind was sit, stay, lie down and heel. She heeled pretty well even without the command, since she's a bit of a scaredy dog and never strays far. She picked up on sit within two days, and we spent the best part of the rest of the month strengthening it until she sat on command in the house, out the house, on leash, off leash, with or without the company of other dogs and humans. I started on lie down next. She also learnt that very quickly. I thought she was an absolute genius.

BUT: She seems unable to differenciate between sit and lie down. Once she learnt lie down sit no longer existed in her doggy brain. I would tell her to lie down and she would lie down, but when I tell her sit she also lies down. So when I dropped lie down and retaught her sit, and it only took a day to do that, she forgot all about lie down again and sat on command - never mind which command it was.

I had considered taking her to a trainer, but for one, all the training programs around here are for puppies and she is already at least 6 years off that mark. And also, I don't need her to be the next Lassie, I just want her to be able to sit, lie down and stay and heel for the convenience and safety of visitors to our house and others out in the park. Because right now, the only thing she does outdoors is come when called, and never stray far.

So does anyone know how to fix this little problem? Am I expecting too much of an old shelter dog who for all I know spent the first 7 years of her life shut in the yard through rain and hail and bread and water once a day?

Oh, and by the way, I noticed that she seems to either have been trained to or figured out by herself that humans wear shoes while dogs do not, and from the first day she came to our house she's always greeted us at the door with one of our shoes. At first she would drop it at our feet and scuttle away to hide again, then after a few weeks she waited patiently until we took our shoes off and would give us one of our slippers, and now she dances around us in delight with a shoe whenever we come home. I taught her to drop it on command, and to this day she has never forgotten that one. And she also seems to have memorised who wears what shoe, and she picks out the correct shoe for the correct person nearly every time. So...... Her misguided concept of obedience seems to only stretch as far as manners, so it seems.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I'm a believer of any dog can do anything at any age (within physical and neurological limitations that they may have)!

I adopted a 9yo and was able to teach her new tricks, so I think you can do it.

Are you using hand signals as well as verbal commands? Dogs tend to pick up on your body language before they pick up on the verbal.

Can she see and hear properly? If she's having a problem with one of these areas then you may need to modify your plan of attack.

I certainly wouldn't discount taking her to some training classes. There is bound to be an obedience club not too far from you and generally in the lower levels classes are more about having good pet dogs that have nice manners. So they aren't so much about creating doggy genius's as they are about giving you a tool set to get what you want out of your dog.

Any time I encounter someone who says their dog has learnt something and then forgotten it the main piece of advice I usually have is to go back a couple of steps in your training plan. (sounds like you have, but maybe think about how much you are raising criteria?) The other thing is "puppy push ups" (sit, drop, stand all in succession of each other and order of commands varied). I practice these with my dogs constantly as it is good indoor training (it's cold at the moment!!) and it's good reinforcement of the simple behaviours we expect them to know yet do not always reward - so puppy push ups act as a good reminder to the dog in my opinion!!!

Good luck!

[Staranais]

I think it's a training problem, not a dog problem. Sorry.

Discriminating between words can be more difficult for a dog than you'd think. Even when people think the dog has learned a word, often the dog has often learned the body language that the owner performs when giving each distinct command, and won't be able to respond accurately if the owner turns their back or leaves the room.

If I had your problem I'd go back to short, happy training sessions where you concentrate on asking for sits and downs quite randomly (including sometimes asking for "sit" when she is already in a sit, etc!) Mark and reward correct responses as soon as she assumes the right position, correct incorrect ones by luring her into the right position. She'll work it out.

If you (or everyone else) ever rewards a "wrong" response in daily life then you're undermining the training, too, by teaching the dog that commands can mean anything. So if you are going to give her a command, be prepared to insist on getting the right response.

My dog is 2 years old, and I can still keep her entertained doing distance positions (stand, sit, down). She gets them right 95% of the time, but it's still not effortless for her - working out what I want still takes enough concentration to keep her entertained!

[Shinon]

Yes, I've been using seperate hand signals. I used right hand up like a signal to stop for sit, and and palm down, hand lying flat for lie down. And I've been the only one to train her, since we adopted her anyway. I've been giving her treats as soon as she does the command, and if she does the wrong one I repeat it and sometimes I need to put a hand under her rib cage or push gently on her shoulders to stop her doing the wrong one, then I give her the treat. I've been reading books, and they did suggest "puppy push ups", bit it's hard since whenever I say sit or lie down she does whichever one she did last. I've kept training sessions short, 10 - 15 minutes ish, and reward her for doing a command right. But she only seems to remember the command she did last, and whatever signal I give her that's the only one she'll do.

[Shinon]

Yes, I've been using seperate hand signals. I used right hand up like a signal to stop for sit, and and palm down, hand lying flat for lie down. And I've been the only one to train her, since we adopted her anyway. I've been giving her treats as soon as she does the command, and if she does the wrong one I repeat it and sometimes I need to put a hand under her rib cage or push gently on her shoulders to stop her doing the wrong one, then I give her the treat. I've been reading books, and they did suggest "puppy push ups", bit it's hard since whenever I say sit or lie down she does whichever one she did last. I've kept training sessions short, 10 - 15 minutes ish, and reward her for doing a command right. But she only seems to remember the command she did last, and whatever signal I give her that's the only one she'll do.

[Shinon]

Can anyone help?

[aussielover]

So are you saying she doesn't understand the hand signals?

[Shinon]

I am not sure what she doesn't understand, the hand signals or the words or the whole concepy in general

See, the only command she seems to remember is the one I last did with her. I taught her sit, and she sat. We worked on that for a week and she would sit on a bomb if I asked her to so I started on lie down, she picked up on those so quickly I think she must have been taught them before. However when she learnt lie down, she would no longer sit and lie down when told to sit. And vice versa.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

why do you need her to stay and heel when you are out? Are you planning on walking her off the lead?

I've fostered and adopted Maltese, they are not the sharpest tools in the box! I think you may be expecting too much.

Edited June 15, 2011 by dogmad

[aussielover]

maybe stop saying the commands out loud and only do the hand signals.

Hand signals are easier for most dogs.

You may be confusing her with the verbal command also?

Also maybe teach her a non reward marker- like "try again" or "oopsie" to let her know she hasn't done the correct action.

What reward do you use and how do you mark the correct behaviour?

A clicker or marker wrd can be good for this. Click and treat for the right response.

Then if she does the wrong thing, give the NRM- say "try again" and reward when she does do the right thing. SOmetimes you may need to lure her again to get the correct action

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I'm thinking I would still be luring all the positions you are asking for. So when doing puppy push-ups lure each position. I also like the idea above of not using veral cues just go back to hand signals as these are a bit easier for dogs to understand. A thought - are the hand signals different enough from each other? Could there be confusion there? May be you need to overexaggerate these for a little bit?

But I really think you can do this with your dog!!! Believe in yourself and your pup!!!! If you expect it to happen it will happen (eventually!!).

[m-j]

I am not sure what she doesn't understand, the hand signals or the words or the whole concepy in general

See, the only command she seems to remember is the one I last did with her. I taught her sit, and she sat. We worked on that for a week and she would sit on a bomb if I asked her to so I started on lie down, she picked up on those so quickly I think she must have been taught them before. However when she learnt lie down, she would no longer sit and lie down when told to sit. And vice versa.

I'm guessing that possibly the dog isn't taking any notice of what you are saying/doing, she is just repeating a behaviour that has bought her a reward in the past.

Don't just ask for the same cue for a long period of time, ask for both in the one training session. As was mentioned even if you need to lure the dog to achieve this. When luring your dog make sure your hand is in a similar position to the hand signal you intend to use. Don't reward sits or drops you didn't cue. If she throws a behaviour at you ask her to do something else then reward her.

Even though 10-15 mins isn't much to us it is a longish session for a dog just starting training. Try short training sessions, several times a day. When I say short if the dog does one sit and then a drop correctly even with being lured leave it at that. Sometimes going for the dreaded "one more" can stuff up a good training session.