Correction Chains

[Guest LoveMyDogs]

I have just booked Daisy into dog training and they use correction chains.

My other dogs have body harnesses I use when walking and I am a little unsure of correction chains.

Am I being overly sensitive to this, is this the norm when going to training.

Thanks

[Guest Tess32]

No it's not the "norm" exactly, but it is common enough.

Use what you feel comfortable with - if you have been shown how to use a correction chain and how it works, and you still don't like it then you should not be forced into using it.

If the harnesses work or they are already fine with loose leash, just let them know you aren't comfy using the check chain. Any school that *forces* you to use ANY training tool (be it a check chain or a clicker) is not a good school in my books. Owner's choice (once informed) should rule as long as it is within the rules of the school.

Nat

[Kavik]

It's up to you whether you want to use check chains or not. Harnesses are not the best for training though, they will want you to use something else no matter where you train.

I use check chains but also use food. Am thinking of changing to a martingale for Diesel though.

What is more important is what do you think of their training methods over all? If you want to use food and they don't, maybe try somewhere else (conversely, if they use food, and you are against using food, somewhere else may be better). Do they allow you to use a different type of collar if it is effective or do you have to use a check chain to train there?

[ElectraWoman]

Personally I think it is unnecessary to use correction chains unless your dog is unresponsive to flat collars. That's just my opinion as I am uncomfortable with the idea - if you find them successful, then more power to you

I'm quite sure that using correction chains in training isn't the norm here as well.

Edited February 24, 2005 by ElectraWoman

[Kavik]

I think people use check chains BECAUSE their dog is unresponsive to a flat collar

I have found it hard to find a club that WILL allow you to use a check chain if you wish. (you have the choice at my club, some people on flat collars, some on martingales, some check chains and some haltis. All use either food or toys or a combination).

Zoe my Kelpie cross is dog aggressive and a flat collar just won't cut it. Diesel could probably be worked on a flat collar, I just find the check chain gives a bit more control over a large dog. Since he is fairly easy, I am thinking of changing to a martingale (ordered it last night).

[soniq]

I used a check chain but found it difficult to apply enough "force" to correct my amstaff. He is 26kgs of muscle and I am 60kgs of flab

[Guest LoveMyDogs]

Thank you for your replies.

Check chains are standard at this particular school, they give you a list of what you must bring and this is their standard for dog training.

I suppose I amy be a little frightened because my dog is a resuce dog, and yes she is very hyperactive and completely ignores me when in full flight, but I just don't know about the correction chains.

I did hear that one of the training methods for a dog running around in circles who will not respond to your command is lifting the dogs lead so the front paws are off the ground, from the person who this happened to she said it fixed her dog and she is extremely well behaved.

Problem is I don't think I could do that, but I can't leave her behaviour the way it is at the moment as she is sometimes out of control and I have other dogs who are sometimes being hounded by her.

[soniq]

Why dont you call the school and speak to the instructor.

I believe that if you can't agree with their methods it is best to find another school. Saves money because you are more likely to stick with a school with similar principles to yourself

[Kavik]

I have found the 'bully' breeds difficult with check chains too. They are so darned strong for their size! That, combined with their shape and high pain tolerance, makes them very different to train than the herding breeds I am used to!

[MonElite]

why dont you use a limited slip collar, half check half flat. You still have some checking power but you cant strungle your dog not injure it.

[helen]

Where are you located and what breed of dog do you have? It doesn't sound like a club i would attened myself

[pgm]

Lovemydogs, you must believe in what you are doing, otherwise that uncertainty will transfer itself to the dog. You will end up making it worse.

I would watch a training session before I committed to any trainer. Speak to the trainer and ask them to explain their methods.

Check chains can be very effective, but like any tool, pretty much useless if used incorrectly. And if you use the tool (in this case the check chain) without conviction and belief in what you are doing, then your problems may get worse.

If you can't commit to the method, then find one that you can. No method can produce good results without the commitment of the handler.

One final word, the fact that your dog is a rescue is irrelevent - your commitment and belief is far more influential towards getting good results.

[Fin]

I have found that my dog is completely unresponsive on either a flat or martingale type collar, some people would suggest that at 4 1/2 months he should be on nothing but flat but I have no control with using anything but a check chain (haven't tried prong). Having said that, if the chain slips down from behind his ears the effectivness is nearly as bad as a flat collar so it is a lot more work to ensure that the collar is in the right spot (every time you stop you have to put it back where it is supposed to be).

When the collar is in place in the right spot then the correction is so minor that it does less damage (I'd imagine) than pulling on a martingale 10 times as hard. I've actually put the check chain on a sensitive part of my arm and checked it as hard and it's not that bad at all.

I don't like having to use it but it makes the difference between a good time and a bad time at training or anywhere where I need to have complete control (if we are just going for a walk in the park then I use a flat collar but if you are at a show and need to have the dog close then a flat doesn't cut it).

...go ahead, fire away.

[Mystiqview]

Every training tool has a good and bad side to its use. When they are used CORRECTLY and effectively each tool is good. It is when it is NOT used properly is when there is cause for concern.

The whole body harnesses are really only good for strapping in the dog in the car. If the dog wants to pull or do what it wants, the weight is distributed in such a way the dog can do what IT pretty much wants, not what you may want it to do. You have less can I call it "prescise" control.

My pups were taught on flat collars using food and toys as motivators. However I use a chain when I am training, only as a specific collar which is different from their everyday flat collar. I have never needed to check, yank or pull on the chain for a correction. For my dogs, a voice correction is all that is necessary IF needed. Even then, most corrections are a little "ah ah" not a full on growl etc.

Most obedience clubs still mostly use check chains or head-halters as their main stay training equipment. I would not personally be too uneasy if they use these. However if they get you to FORCE the dog to do something using force.. then I would be VERY concerned and definately find somewhere else to train.

In all said, as long as you are consistant in what you expect from the dog, be fair and have loads of patience in the early stages (and in the later stages) you should not go too wrong. Try also to think outside the square when training at home. What the instructor infront of the class is teaching you is only ONE way to do things.. there are plenty of others, none of which are necessarily the RIGHT or WRONG.

EDIT: Even a flat collar can choke a dog causing it to vomit, just as easily as a check chain.. especially if you let the dog pull like a train

Edited February 24, 2005 by Skyes Dalimit

[Guest Tess32]

With the body harnesses, there ARE no-pull harnesses that do give you a reasonable amount of control. I think there is the Easy Walk, Sense-ation and Sense-ible harnesses on the market.

I'm still tossing up on whether to use a gentle leader or not.

Nat

[Kavik]

Yes, there are no-pulling harnesses, but I don't think many training clubs will let you use them (unless on a very small, toy breed or one with neck problems).

They still don't give you the precision control that a collar or halter would, as you can only control shoulders, not neck or head.

[Guest Tess32]

We're allowed to.

What's the reason for not allowing it? I find it has more control than a flat collar...

Nat

[Kavik]

I've never been to a club that allowed it (they did allow for a dog with neck or breathing problems). I guess they thought other things gave more control. I've walked dogs on harnesses before, wouldnt train with one.

[Guest cloverfdch]

With our club the choice is left up to the handler, Pups are encouraged to train on flat collars or harnesses though, with lots of praise, food and toys. With my 16 month old Border Collie, i cannot train him on anything but a check chain, he goes crazy on his flat collar. I was not too sure about training him on a check chain at first, but now i would not be with out it. With my Rotti x, i will only train on a flat collar or marting gale as she hates the chain.

If you are not happy with the clubs rules i would suggest searching around for a club that is more into positive reinforcement.

Goodluck in training your dog, and please let us know how it goes.

[ninaandted]

Hi there,

our group has freedom to choose also but we aren't recommended to use the body harnesses.

i started using a check chain with Nina after going there and being shown how to use one properly and it has made a huge difference to our walks, even more so than our general training. we had tried everything else that I could find to buy before this, including a head halter (that's a whole story in itself!) and she actually strangles herself much worse on her flat collar. but I must admit that it took me a month to work up confidence using the check chain and I alternated between the two until I had figured it all out and realised that Nina was hurting herself more on the flat collar!!!

having said that I'm pretty sure that I won't have to bother using one with Ted because he is much more responsive on the flat collar and doesn't have Nina's "drive" to play with every other dog on the planet when we are out walking!!

I agree with the others that if they aren't giving you a choice you might have to shop a bit further afield for another training group. it really depends on your dog too, but you should certainly have the option of working within the bounds where you are comfortable and if you aren't comfortable with a check chain then you may not persist in learning how to use it best. praise and positive reinforcement should also be the chief motiviators used in training in my opinion - the kind of collar used is only to assist you in having some control.