Kavik Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I prefer agility to obedience. I can appreciate the intricacy of obedience and do enjoy training some components (finishes, db work etc) but I find agility more fun and more rewarding. Also the courses are always different and provide lots of handling challenges and test the dog's understanding of obstacles. I am trying to get good independent obstacle performance so there is always a lot of work to do! It is also more exciting to watch and obvious that the dogs are really enjoying it. If you don't want to do obedience, don't I may give it another crack with another dog down the track but at the moment agility wins hands down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I think a lot of it ultimately comes down to personal preference. We tend to be a lot happier if we choose hobbies that we are naturally drawn to, so if you're not interested, you're not interested. No point forcing the matter. I actually enjoy watching obedience more than agility... that may change as we start trialling in agility. Great obedience dogs take my breath away, as do brilliant handlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 If the obedience class is really boring, I would question how good the class is. I joined an obedience club back in March, went to 3 classes, then just stopped going, because it was soooo boring. I do a lot of obedience training at home, and the dogs find it fun, even heeling, but I only do short bursts of it. The class was about 45 minutes heeling and turns, and that was the "beginners class". I stopped going because my dog had only just started learning to heel, and there was no way we could keep the fun in it if she was forced to do it for 45 minutes. There were no breaks of any kind, other than being stopped with the dog sitting at heel. No breaks at all, for the whole hour. Maybe that's how all obedience clubs are, but they shouldn't be IMO. I would have liked to see more toys used, and training in drive for the drivey dogs, and just a general desire to make it pleasant and fun for both owner and dog, rather than just endlessly droning away about the heel and turns. Many (if not most) obedience clubs are run like that, but times are changing and they will have to change too in order to survive. However it is difficult in a class situation especially in the lower levels when you are working with pet owners who just want basic obedience and aren't interested nor dedicated enough to commit to training their dogs as much as you are - that's not to say that class should be boring, you have to work at the level of effort they are willing to put in and if you start to try getting them to learn or train more complex obedience exercises they will lose interest. You have to make it relevant to what they want to learn and take away from the experience. I don't do much in terms of putting people through heel patterns in my class, though we do some, I tend to focus on training focus work, teaching heel position, stays, basic recalls, how to teach drop and stand, we do a bit of rally-o stuff, I get them to do little things like train hand touches etc. Amongst that I always try to do a bit of one on one time with everyone if it's only for a minute or two. I also talk a fair bit in class (anyone who knows me will not be surprised by this) and the biggest reason I do this is to break up the practical parts of class so people can rest their dogs in between exercises. It can also be challenging because you have to work within the constraints of the class, I could have anywhere from 5 - 20 people in one class. Teaching concepts like training in drive (however basic) is not going to work practically in big classes, so I try to teach people how to motivate their dogs by teaching them how to 'have a party' with their dog and mixing up how and when they reward their dogs. If I have someone who wants more than what I am covering in class or I spot someone who has a lot of potential I always pull them aside and have a chat to them to gauge how interested they are in learning more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I actually enjoy watching obedience more than agility... that may change as we start trialling in agility. Great obedience dogs take my breath away, as do brilliant handlers. Completely agree Wuffles - I am very much the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathq Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 First love is obedience. Loving the higher levels for different exercises to train. Tried agility but I'm too slow. Love the connection with my dog that develops. Paddock bashing is a very boring way to teach obedience and not one highly recommended for competitive obedience. Great for teaching a better behaved pet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I agree, for pet owners you have to lay it out differently than for the people who want to get into formal obedience. But with my other dog, I did basic obedience at an agility club, and that class was actually fun. There were breaks where the instructor explained the next exercise, we were encouraged to take breaks and go for a run or have a play between exercises or whenever the dog seemed like it was getting too much, and there were lots of different exercises per session. So that's sort of what I expected when I joined a proper obedience club, but there was nothing like that. Just endless heeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I agree, for pet owners you have to lay it out differently than for the people who want to get into formal obedience. But with my other dog, I did basic obedience at an agility club, and that class was actually fun. There were breaks where the instructor explained the next exercise, we were encouraged to take breaks and go for a run or have a play between exercises or whenever the dog seemed like it was getting too much, and there were lots of different exercises per session. So that's sort of what I expected when I joined a proper obedience club, but there was nothing like that. Just endless heeling. I'm certainly not trying to say that because they are pet owners it should be boring (quite the opposite!) but just that you have to work in the constraints of the class. I'd LOVE to teach people to train just how I prefer to but that's not going to happen in a class setting or at least with the size of the classes I usually have, and at the end of the day, most of them aren't interesting in the level of dedication it would take. I have had people in my classes who would prefer to spend the class heeling up and down bashing the paddock (tough though as that's never going to happen in one of my classes), mostly because that's what they know and are comfortable with, I think. That a lot of people find obedience (or training their dog in general) boring is one of the other reasons I am even more passionate about obedience and encouraging clubs to be more progressive in the methods they use and the way they structure their classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I now love both and at the moment have a dog that cannot do agility. We are having lots of fun with obedience, its the small things that keep it fun for me and its the way my dog thinks that its a game that keeps it fun for him. I love his stupid egar face when he races in for a recall and the sliding stop to front. I love the feeling of connection I feel with him when we have just pulled off a bit of focused heelwork. I think its the best feedback in the world when I ask Toby for heel position and he springs in and looks up at me waiting to see of he will get paid out now or what he has to do next. Anyone who has seen me train Toby knows I look like an idiot, we run around, jump around, do hand touches, get excited ect. To the OP watch some footage of Ptolomys Cider doing obedience,if you dont get a smile on your face and an urge to go out and do some training maybe obedience just isnt for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I've never done agility, so can't comment on it, except that it looks like lots of fun. What I like about obedience? * It teaches you to be better at training your dog, especially it teaches you to be better at shaping. * It's fun! When it all comes together, heeling is like dancing with your dog. * It makes you better at motivating your dog. One of my favourite trainers is Sylvia Trkman, she says " If you want to learn about motivation, obedience is a way to go. If you can make those long minutes of heeling fun to a dog, then making agility fun for your dog should be a piece of cake". * Spectacular obedience skills really impresses people you meet, and having even a solid down and nice heel on your dog are a great way to relax people who are worried about dogs * You can practice in a few square meters of space if it's crappy weather outside, since you don't need much space. Can't do that with tracking or agility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I've never done agility, so can't comment on it, except that it looks like lots of fun. What I like about obedience? * It teaches you to be better at training your dog, especially it teaches you to be better at shaping. * It's fun! When it all comes together, heeling is like dancing with your dog. * It makes you better at motivating your dog. One of my favourite trainers is Sylvia Trkman, she says " If you want to learn about motivation, obedience is a way to go. If you can make those long minutes of heeling fun to a dog, then making agility fun for your dog should be a piece of cake". * Spectacular obedience skills really impresses people you meet, and having even a solid down and nice heel on your dog are a great way to relax people who are worried about dogs * You can practice in a few square meters of space if it's crappy weather outside, since you don't need much space. Can't do that with tracking or agility! Nice list SA! I particularly agree with the bolded points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Actually there are some ancillary skills for agility that you can do in limited space ;) probably similar ones to obedience. Rear end awareness skills (pivoting on objects, walking backwards, balancing on objects, walking through ladder), contact position practice, spin, hand touches among others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I knew someone would say that. Tracking is the same, I guess - you can practice your article indications etc in a small area of space. But the difference I was trying to point out is that I can go through my entire obedience routine in my (tiny!) living room. I can't run an agility course or do a track in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I find obedience boring. But Kivi doesn't, so I make it interesting for me by breaking it down into little parts and working on little projects like turning heel position into a happy place Kivi doesn't want to leave. He really surprised me when he eventually picked up rear end awareness, and I think his confidence has soared since he learnt some balance and body awareness. That's pretty fun. And learning effective ways to reward keeps me engaged. It's pretty boring with Erik, though. He's so clever and full of energy I just like jamming with him and find that way more fun. Ultimately I just want agility to be another way to jam with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warval dobe Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Obedience training... I like seeing the other dogs in class doing what I wish my own dog would do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Problem with the title of this thread is that a lot of agility folk probably won't read it! I expected obedience to be in front in the poll as a result, and it is. I prefer agility because I think most dogs enjoy it more. I certainly prefer it as a spectator sport. I also don't like the way obedience is heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warval dobe Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I prefer agility because I think most dogs enjoy it more. I certainly prefer it as a spectator sport. I also don't like the way obedience is heading. I agree, our dobes seem to enjoy it more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Problem with the title of this thread is that a lot of agility folk probably won't read it! I expected obedience to be in front in the poll as a result, and it is. By 1 vote But yes, I suspect if more agility folk came in here then agility would probably be winning by a mile. Not sure why, though! :p I like a mix of a few sports. If I had to pick out of obedience or agility, I'd pick obedience. If I had to pick out of obedience and retrieving, I'd be begging you not to make me choose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I don't really have a preference - I get something from all the dog sports I train/compete in. What I love about obedience is the skill set it gives you as a trainer if your goal is to have an enthusiastic, confident and accurate dog in the ring. Particularly a non-traditional obedience breed.....you don't often see 'Dalmatian' and obedience in the same sentence You can't wing it and you can't cut corners. It's taught me how to get the most out of positive reinforcement and how to break complex behaviours (e.g. heeling) into the tiniest of steps and then build them up again. I have taken those lessons to agility and retrieving. The latter is still heavily reliant on more traditional methods so much of how I train is taking those tried and true retrieving training drills and tweaking them to suit my training style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 I don't find obedience boring at all, and neither does my dog. We also train in agility which is fun but for us there is a closer level of teamwork and bonding required in obedience which I love. I love heelwork... there is a lot of complexity to it and so many different training exercises and games needed to get it right. There is lots of stuff to concentrate on for the mere human like footwork and body language so that really makes me think and work to improve myself so that my dog can also improve. Heaps of ideas for heelwork... the perch/elephant game like huski posted; using the 2 food game to get enthusiasm (basically throwing food in one direction, then another, then finding heel position... then back to throwing food); circle work where you throw food into the centre of a circle and when they choose to come back and heel with you, throwing another piece of food; static heelwork with a very high reward rate for correct position; sending to food pots or jackpots; serpentines and figure of 8; using just commands or just voice; hand touches or simple tricks as rewards or to get the dog excited... I train heelwork in so many different ways. Thankyou wuffles, some great ideas. I will try them out with Mindy. They sound a lot more interesting than walking around in circles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I think more people would enjoy obedience more if they trained in the way Huski and co train. I hated obedience when I was first taught, so subdued and robotic. Years later with the same dog he came alive when I started working with a guy who did scent detection training. I was like 'so it's ok to be over the top, loads of excitement AND combine his obsession with balls' It's so much fun when it is fun! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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