What Do You Like About Obedience

[wuffles]

wuffles as far as practical logic goes the one I could never get was a Broad Jump. Why would you leave your dog go and stand in the middle of the stream have the dog jump over a stream and then come and sit in front in the middle of the stream .

Ummm yes I will admit that broadjump may come into the 'fun but kind of pointless' category Ava loves jumping over things so I can't really complain about it.

[Kavik]

I like that I can make my criteria very detailed in agility if I want to :D ATM retraining my contacts and trying for detailed criteria for my 2o2o (pounce into position both front feet at the same time, speed) and of course always working on weave entries and proofing these (need lots of work on that, especially rear crossing them and me slowing down while he is in them). There is always a lot to improve on in agility, including single obstacle performance.

What percentage of time would you say you do at home and at a club?

Im so curious if people train with a trainer/ mentor one on one or more in a club situation. What stops people having private lessons? Money, time, not as social, happy with their current progress?

I used to have weekly lessons with Keith Edwards (like half of Sydney, lol) and my dogs and I improved at a greater rate than when I was in the club situation, especially when I had the deaf girl. A friend who was very successful (won both the open Agility and open Jumping at Sydney Royal one year) did most of her training at home.

I used to do quite a lot at home (have a 10 week old baby atm so not doing quite as much right now lol). The foundation work for my 2o2o I do at home, even now as I am trying to improve his understanding and get him to do it if I am behind him or stationary, I also have a seesaw, weaves, jumps and tunnel so practice 1 jump exercises, bang game, sending, weaves (entries, proofing), serps etc. I also do lots of rear end awareness training and balancing on random things on walks (logs, trees, rocks etc). Training is great for contact equipment that I don't have and the space to put it all together in sequences and work on handling.

[corvus]

Have you ever competed Corvus?

No.

Or do you intend on competing ?

That's the eventual plan. I'm in no rush.

Do you train to the parameters of the ANKC?

Yes. ADAA for agility. Is my opinion relevant yet? :rolleyes: I love how you're allowed to start a side discussion about classes and trainers (which I'm not interested in, so ignored - see how easy and painless that was for everyone?), but if I start a side discussion on why people like the sport they like, suddenly I'm asked to validate my right to an opinion! Who cares about my opinion? I'm asking about other people's opinions. My views only come up because I'm trying to understand why I don't see things the same as other people. But hey, if people find this discussion threatening or something I'm happy to leave it be. I'm not invested in it. I was just curious.

[koalathebear]

Yes. ADAA for agility. Is my opinion relevant yet? :rolleyes: I love how you're allowed to start a side discussion about classes and trainers (which I'm not interested in, so ignored - see how easy and painless that was for everyone?), but if I start a side discussion on why people like the sport they like, suddenly I'm asked to validate my right to an opinion! Who cares about my opinion? I'm asking about other people's opinions. My views only come up because I'm trying to understand why I don't see things the same as other people. But hey, if people find this discussion threatening or something I'm happy to leave it be. I'm not invested in it. I was just curious.

Bah, I always like reading your views corvus. As long as there aren't breaches of forum rules, the OP doesn't mind broadening the discussion to related/relevant issues and no kittens are harmed - all seems fine to me ...

[wuffles]

To add another dimension, I really enjoy training one of my dogs and not the other, so I think individual dogs play a big part in dog sport preferences. I have no aspirations for one of them to compete as I don't think either of us would get much out of it. He can't see the point of jumping over things when you can just go around, so he'd hate agility. I occasionally try to teach him new things but that is more for me to test my training skills, rather than for his enjoyment. He's happy doing his only trick 'shake' over and over again while I get my other dog to rescue people from burning buildings...

[Kavik]

To add another dimension, I really enjoy training one of my dogs and not the other, so I think individual dogs play a big part in dog sport preferences. I have no aspirations for one of them to compete as I don't think either of us would get much out of it. He can't see the point of jumping over things when you can just go around, so he'd hate agility. I occasionally try to teach him new things but that is more for me to test my training skills, rather than for his enjoyment. He's happy doing his only trick 'shake' over and over again while I get my other dog to rescue people from burning buildings...

Agree with this (I am the same, enjoy training some of my dogs more than others) and to your analogy!

[Yesmaam]

I also don't like the way obedience is heading.

Can you expand on your comments please poodlefan? What exactly don't you like about the way OB is heading?

[aussielover]

For those that train in drive-

Can you train in more than one type of drive?

For obedience type exercsies and trick training my dog likes food rewards, but for more active prusuits like ball throwing/retrieving and agility she doesn't seem to care for food and prefers to play tug or jump around like an idiot for a reward.

Is there a problem with using different types of drive- should you be consisent and only use the one type.

[Zug Zug]

I love obedience!

Here are the things I love about it:

- your dog learns to concentrate, to think, and to learn (and then you can teach them just about anything)

- your dog learns to do all of the things listed above even when there are other dogs REALLY close-by (bonus!)

- you have a bunch of 'games' to play with your dog, and each game leads on to more games and challenges for you to play with together

- your dog becomes much easier to live with. It stays when you want it to. It comes when you want it to. It lies down when you want it to. Hallelujah!

- you and your dog develop a really close relationship and bond

Out of all of these, the last one is the best. I think the rest of them are a means to that end.

I would never get a dog and not do formal training with it. I think it's really good both for the handler and the dog, and you need stuff like this to work on together to help you form a positive relationship.

With my next dog, I'll do obedience and agility. In that order.

[Kavik]

For those that train in drive-

Can you train in more than one type of drive?

For obedience type exercsies and trick training my dog likes food rewards, but for more active prusuits like ball throwing/retrieving and agility she doesn't seem to care for food and prefers to play tug or jump around like an idiot for a reward.

Is there a problem with using different types of drive- should you be consisent and only use the one type.

I think you should have as many types of rewards as possible. Gives you more choice. I use different rewards depending on the type of behaviour. Shaping and static exercises I use food. Sending and active exercises I throw a toy.

[huski]

For those that train in drive-

Can you train in more than one type of drive?

For obedience type exercsies and trick training my dog likes food rewards, but for more active prusuits like ball throwing/retrieving and agility she doesn't seem to care for food and prefers to play tug or jump around like an idiot for a reward.

Is there a problem with using different types of drive- should you be consisent and only use the one type.

It sounds like her prey drive is more dominant than her food drive?

I'd be seeing if you could use her prey drive to train obedience stuff. You could still use food to train some behaviours but when you really wanted to switch her on use prey drive.

There will be a number of people at the Sydney K9 Pro workshop next month who will demonstrate how they train obedience using prey drive, might give you some ideas

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Aussielover

Use whatever reward works. Use the dog's favourite reward to make more convenient rewards "rewarding" ie if the dog loves tug you can use that to train it to like food, and vice versa.

I've found with obedience training - food works best, with agility - tug toys for training handling skills and obstacles, and rawhide strips (at the end of a sequence), and food and targeting for contacts. Not that we've done much work on contacts, I just try to get her to slow down instead of leaping off the top.

For herding - the reward is being allowed to chase the sheep some more. No food, no tug, and I have to keep my big mouth shut or evil hound goes back into obedience mode and appears at my leg, instead of chasing the sheep. She can't believe she's allowed to do that. So our last session was flat out or flat nothing.

[corvus]

Thanks KtB. ;)

The more rewards the better. Gives you flexibility and teaches your dog flexibility. Aussielover, there's an explanation for the pattern you're seeing in affective neuroscience. It's fair to expect that whatever drive is 'dominant' can change from moment to moment, seeing as drives in their natural state push an animal into action to satisfy needs and needs change. And Corvus is going to shut up before she upsets anyone.

Edited June 18, 2011 by corvus

[huski]

Thanks KtB. ;)

The more rewards the better. Gives you flexibility and teaches your dog flexibility. Aussielover, there's an explanation for the pattern you're seeing in affective neuroscience. It's fair to expect that whatever drive is 'dominant' can change from moment to moment, seeing as drives in their natural state push an animal into action to satisfy needs and needs change. And Corvus is going to shut up before she upsets anyone.

Do you disagree then Corvus that some dogs have a naturally higher desire for certain rewards than others? Because that's all my post was referring to when I mentioned "dominant" drives.

[ness]

Huski - what I think Corvus is saying is that yes some dogs can have a naturally higher desire for certain rewards then others but this can vary depending on the circumstances and why not use it. If your dog prefers treats in a certain situation then use those, if the dog prefers toys in another situation use those. Be flexible .

Edited June 18, 2011 by ness

[huski]

Huski - what I think Corvus is saying is that yes some dogs can have a naturally higher desire for certain rewards then others but this can vary depending on the circumstances and why not use it. If your dog prefers treats in a certain situation then use those, if the dog prefers toys in another situation use those. Be flexible .

Yes, I definitely agree with having a lot of different rewards in your tool box and I don't see anywhere that I said you should only use one reward

But reading Aussielover's post, and please correct me if I am wrong, she said that the reward her dog gets really excited about and into is a prey reward. Hence my suggestion that if she can utilise that excitement for the reward in obedience, why not give it a go - it might make obedience more exciting for both her and her dog.

I even suggested that she mix up using food and toys when she said she only uses food for obedience and toys for agility, so again, I don't know where anyone got the idea that I think anyone should only use one reward only from.

[ness]

I was just explaining corvus I haven't been following the thread super closely - sorry huski - I didn't mean to imply you weren't suggesting she mix it up.

[dogdude]

If I truly trained my dog using prey drive, then I would not suddenly change to using food drive intermittently. Would'nt care less if if worked short term. I would look closlely at what I have been doing to change it in the first place, and then maybe try something else if it came to it.

But thats just me. I dont think that you could ever have the dog displaying the same levels of drive by chopping and changing. Not talking about shaping or teaching new things etc.....talking about working.

[corvus]

Do you disagree then Corvus that some dogs have a naturally higher desire for certain rewards than others? Because that's all my post was referring to when I mentioned "dominant" drives.

Mindy is a Lab. I reckon that counts for something.

[aussielover]

I am not sure about which drive is stronger

She really only prefers jumping around or tugging when she is already worked up- like if she's been chasing the ball or doing agility.

Generally, being a typical lab, she prefers food.

If I got out a toy and asked her to heel or to sit or drop, I think she'd think twice about whetehr she wanted it at that point, where as with food, she'd take it straight away.

To use a toy I'd have to work her into a frenzy or state of excitement or already be playing a game for her to consider it a reward. She will accept a food reward in agility training (but not ball throwing annoyingly!) as well.

I guess what I am trying to say- does drive training involve using a reward that is inherently desirable eg. food, or a reward that is only rewarding in some situations, eg a tug toy and how do you know what their strongest drive is?