What Do You Like About Obedience

[aussielover]

I'm trying to motivate myself to take my dog to obedience classes and maybe compete with her.

I do find them quite boring compared with agility though. I also find it hard to keep my dogs attention during stuff like heeling. Where as in agility I never have any problems getting her attention to run a course etc. Perhaps she finds the agility obstacles self rewarding though. She will go on the equipment of her own accord during breaks if I dont keep a close eye on her and will do the jumps I have set up, by herself at home.

The other difficulty is that she has been trained to think for herself and look ahead (rather than at me) for the first year of her life pretty much. She has also been rewarded for walking ahead and encouraged to pull on the leash.

How do I make obedience training more rewarding and fun for both of us?

Or do some people just never find obedience that interesting/fun?

I've also heard mixed opinions on training in both obedience and agility- some say it makes the dog better, some say it makes it harder. I think that any activity where you are interacting with your dog in a positive way is beneficial though.

[huski]

We've only really just started agility training at the end of last year, we aren't competing yet and although I love it and Daisy loves it, I am still most passionate about obedience and if I could only do one sport it would be obedience, hands down.

I don't do obedience classes (although I do instruct them) with my dogs, I love the methods and training 'style' I use to train obedience, I love having that partnership with my dog, I love the challenge of making something that many view people and dogs view as "boring" (i.e. heelwork!) something my dog can't wait to do and finds highly rewarding.

I find watching agility fun but I much prefer watching obedience, to me I love watching the partnership between the dog and the handler (not saying that agility isn't a partnership, it's just different).

I also love training more complex exercises like scent discrimination, seek back, dumbell retrieve etc.

Now I'm an instructor I am also really passionate about introducing more progressive methods to our club - coming into agility from obedience was awesome because IMO overall in terms of training methods, it is a much more progressive sport than obedience. I hate seeing people in my classes who've been told their dog lacks potential because they are a more difficult dog/breed or because they don't do well with the method they've been taught to use - but it's a great feeling when you show them another way to do it and both dog and handler thrive and improve in leaps and bounds.

I think part of it also is that I'm quite a naturally competitive person and I started out going to obedience classes four years ago because my dog was such a nightmare - I have lost count of how many people I've encountered over those four years that have told me my dog would never make a good obedience dog etc. I started out using more "traditional" methods and found that didn't work so I went and found something that did work and I enjoyed that challenge, and seeing the positive change in my dog and our relationship. So I think that experience also makes obedience more special to me, because of how hard we've worked at it.

I enjoy both sports, but obedience will always be the sport I am most passionate about And yes I do see making it fun and exciting for people who view it as boring, a challenge I am more than willing to take up!

[murve]

I like the personal challenge of doing better than last week :D effect

Working challenge of getting into the dogs brain, me having a Whippet is more challenging than training a smarter/quicker learning bred dog.

[Ons]

I think it depends on the dog whether you like obedience or not imho

I love doing obedience with my golden retriever. I love the way that he bonds with me during the time, that he wants to please me, that he is listening to me and doing what I ask him to do. He really surprises me at times with what he does. And i have a goal that I want to achieve at the end of it all, it's only a small goal to do our first CCD trial in September but it's a goal that I have set and that motivates me to keep going with him.

But doing obedience with my coolie pup who is 7 months old bores both of us to tears. Maybe I should look at it as a challenge for us both but she hates the formality of it all and does much better when i make a game of it for her like teaching her to sit and down. She is a very obedient dog anyway, has an awesome recall, listens and watches what I ask her to do but is just too busy and bouncy for structured lessons. I can't wait for her to turn 12 months old though as I think that she will be an awesome agility dog.

[huski]

Ons - I think most seven month old pup would hate training if it was really 'formal'!

[Sue & Waldo]

I can't do agility because I have a bad ankle but I do love obedience. I enjoy working with my dog and getting the best out of her. I challenge myself to improve my own handling.

I motivate myself my setting small goals for myself and Cindy.

I also have good friends at the club so have fun with them as well.

[aussielover]

Huski, you should come help me then!!!

Its not the club that is problem- I do agility with them as well and they are fantastic for that, the obedience seems tedious- we literally walk around in circles ( a straight line sometimes if we are lucky) and maybe do a few sits and drops.

I've actually done more "obedience" training in the agility classes like getting a good recall, sit/drop stays, heel work, off lead work etc.

Its funny because we work off lead in agility and my dog has never run off, but I am sure that she would run away if I let her off lead in obedience lol

I agree with you about the partnerhsip in agility being different. The majority of high level/top dogs I see do it for their own enjoyment as well (ie they find the activity self rewarding), where as in obedience it seems like the dog does it mainly to please the handler.

Ons- I want a coolie for my next agility dog :D

Although i do like having a non-typical breed in agility, i think some dogs are more physically suited.

Edited June 12, 2011 by aussielover

[huski]

Huski, you should come help me then!!!

Its not the club that is problem- I do agility with them as well and they are fantastic for that, the obedience seems tedious- we literally walk around in circles ( a straight line sometimes if we are lucky) and maybe do a few sits and drops.

Unfortunately that's typical of a lot of obedience classes, I certainly wasn't able to train Daisy that way because she totally shut off. IMO a lot of what makes obedience boring is how people are taught to train it.

The majority of high level/top dogs I see do it for their own enjoyment as well (ie they find the activity self rewarding), where as in obedience it seems like the dog does it mainly to please the handler.

LOL I definitely don't think Daisy does anything to please me but she knows that doing xyz and will give her access to the super rewards I have ;)

[Ons]

Ons- I want a coolie for my next agility dog :D

Although i do like having a non-typical breed in agility, i think some dogs are more physically suited.

a coolie my friend bred won the local National agility trials at Tamworth last month :D I'm planning a litter with Latte in about 18 months so keep in touch :D

Huski, yes I agree that most 7 month old pups would hate the formality but it's what we have here and if I want to get her CCD that's what she has to needs to do, heel nicely on the lead. The class I do go to isn't very structured and it's a mixed class of about 5 dogs all at different standards. It's great with Onslow because the trainer doesn't mind if I put him in a sit stay exercise whilst the others are all heeling, good distraction techniques for him to learn and he is doing very well with it

[huski]

Huski, yes I agree that most 7 month old pups would hate the formality but it's what we have here and if I want to get her CCD that's what she has to needs to do, heel nicely on the lead. The class I do go to isn't very structured and it's a mixed class of about 5 dogs all at different standards. It's great with Onslow because the trainer doesn't mind if I put him in a sit stay exercise whilst the others are all heeling, good distraction techniques for him to learn and he is doing very well with it

But if she's bored and doesn't like it, why not train it another way? (ETA: not saying that in a critical way, just curious! If my dog was bored with the way we were training something, I'd find another way to do it rather than persevere and risk her disliking it more and more)

Edited June 12, 2011 by huski

[Ons]

I train her at home with sit, stay, down, recall and stand and make it fun for her, just when we are playing together I'll turn it into a quick training session for her.

but how do you teach her how to heel nicely and make it fun? Up and down, up and down we go at class and she all she wants to do is play with the other dogs

[huski]

I'm sure lots of other more experienced obedience people will be able to give you some ideas, but I personally keep training heel work to very very short bursts (well I try - I think a lot of us are guilty of pushing too much HW, I know I am).

Paddock bashing in a class taught Daisy that heelwork was boring and a time to switch off, so I had to do a lot of different things to fix that and to make it more exciting.

A couple of suggestions:

- Have you done any pivot/perch work with her? i.e. getting her to balance her front paws on a phone book or similar and teaching her to move her back legs around it. Daisy LOVES this exercise and it also gives you nice left and left about turns. Terranik has a video here:

to give you an example. This is a great way to train heel position too - it will definitely be one of the first things I teach with my next puppy!

- If she has trouble focusing don't push heelwork too far, if all she can focus for is ten steps, do five and then reward her and build her ability to focus on you in heel work gradually.

- The biggest one for me was learning to be more unpredictable with when I reward my dog because as soon as I became too predictable she'd start to get bored because it was more of the 'same old same old'. So I will reward at random times - it could be when we line up at the 'start post' in training, it could be two steps into heel work or ten or twenty, it could be after my first left turn or the stand or the drop etc.

- Make sure you finish training when she's still really engaged with you. If you are walking up and down etc in class until she switches off and wants to play with the other dogs, you have gone way too far.

Edited June 12, 2011 by huski

[GoldenGirl85]

I'm another that finds obedience work boring, I tried a class once and was so disgusted by the way things were run I insisted on a refund on my membership and never went back lol

I was planning to do some obedience work with Lexi before we start agility training, but she is going to be starting next month anyway, so I'd rather not confuse her with the different styles of training.........the is a very simple girl lol

[Ons]

thank you for all that info Huski! very much appreciated

One thing, Latte doesn't want to play with all the other dogs after doing heeling for a bit, she wants to play with them right from the start I guess it's my fault because i took her to training at first to socialise her, she was really scared of people and dogs and wouldn't approach anything, I took her to the show classes there (although of course she can't be shown), seems she did learn at least that lesson well

[wuffles]

I don't find obedience boring at all, and neither does my dog. We also train in agility which is fun but for us there is a closer level of teamwork and bonding required in obedience which I love.

I love heelwork... there is a lot of complexity to it and so many different training exercises and games needed to get it right. There is lots of stuff to concentrate on for the mere human like footwork and body language so that really makes me think and work to improve myself so that my dog can also improve. Heaps of ideas for heelwork... the perch/elephant game like huski posted; using the 2 food game to get enthusiasm (basically throwing food in one direction, then another, then finding heel position... then back to throwing food); circle work where you throw food into the centre of a circle and when they choose to come back and heel with you, throwing another piece of food; static heelwork with a very high reward rate for correct position; sending to food pots or jackpots; serpentines and figure of 8; using just commands or just voice; hand touches or simple tricks as rewards or to get the dog excited... I train heelwork in so many different ways.

I get SO excited when we do something well. There is nothing like the feeling when you have been working on an exercise for months and all of a sudden it comes together and is done perfectly. It is awesome

I do train at a club but that hour is just that - an hour. I even find enjoyment in getting my dog's attention while there are distractions... when she looks at me instead of the dog that's bounding over wanting to play, that's rewarding. Maybe I'm just weird, though

I like having standards to work to and striving to get high scores in trials. Not to compete against other people but to test myself (my dog is brilliant and can do it all - it is definitely a test of MY ability rather than hers).

I think that people tend to phase out rewards too quickly in obedience... we can't expect our dogs to work for nothing. When I'm teaching something new or working on precision I reward almost continuously for the right thing. And like huski said, randomising rewards is really important as well... if my dog lines up at the start peg then gets a reward 1 in 10 times just for doing that... she will always pat attention 'just in case' ;)

[wuffles]

thank you for all that info Huski! very much appreciated

One thing, Latte doesn't want to play with all the other dogs after doing heeling for a bit, she wants to play with them right from the start I guess it's my fault because i took her to training at first to socialise her, she was really scared of people and dogs and wouldn't approach anything, I took her to the show classes there (although of course she can't be shown), seems she did learn at least that lesson well

My girl is very social but her focus is on me 100% when we are training at club. I got in trouble from the instructors for this, but when we were starting out and she was very interested in playing with the other dogs, I rewarded her HEAPS and HEAPS just for paying attention to me. If we were 10m away from another dog, she looked at it then back at me, I would treat her and play a game - I needed her to know that I am more rewarding than those other dogs. In beginners class I was probably popping a treat in her mouth every 5 seconds - every single time she looked at me instead of something else. I only faded those rewards when she was offering attention for longer periods and started to lose interest in other dogs.

[huski]

Wuffles

[wuffles]

Wuffles

:D

Now the only problem is that sometimes in agility she runs straight into an obstacle because she's too busy looking at me

[Tiggy]

Great post wuffles.

[fuzzy82]

If the obedience class is really boring, I would question how good the class is. I joined an obedience club back in March, went to 3 classes, then just stopped going, because it was soooo boring. I do a lot of obedience training at home, and the dogs find it fun, even heeling, but I only do short bursts of it. The class was about 45 minutes heeling and turns, and that was the "beginners class". I stopped going because my dog had only just started learning to heel, and there was no way we could keep the fun in it if she was forced to do it for 45 minutes. There were no breaks of any kind, other than being stopped with the dog sitting at heel. No breaks at all, for the whole hour.

Maybe that's how all obedience clubs are, but they shouldn't be IMO. I would have liked to see more toys used, and training in drive for the drivey dogs, and just a general desire to make it pleasant and fun for both owner and dog, rather than just endlessly droning away about the heel and turns.

Edited June 12, 2011 by fuzzy82