To All The People Who Are Not Sure About Desexing Under 12 Months

[KOE]

Personally, I have found male GSD's who have been desexed early by 4 or 5 years old have an odd shape about them, like a fullness behind the rib area with no tummy tuck compared with an entire male or one desexed around 18 months. It's hard to explain the "look" I have noticed, but I can generally tell which males have been desexed early once they are fully matured there is a definite strange shape about them

OLiver was desexed at 6 years and he looks like that no tuck.

As I said everyone has their own opinions I agree with early desexing, have 2 with no problems and they are now 7 and 5, so still waiting to see.The DIL's maltese was early desexed and is now 3 and she is a normal size as well.

And I never said it proves anything, just putting it out there, everyone is entitled to their opinion and when newbies come to the forum asking advise and get jumped on for mentioning early desexing,that their dog wont grow properly etc etc well they can look at it from another perpective.And saying that bitches WILL be incontintent is a load of pigsfaluky . My old Vizsla desexed at 10 was incontinent from the operation, Kim desexed at about 6 or 7 isnt, DIL's malt is not incontinent either.

There are also dogs around and the owners are dol members who did not desex until 14 months and those dogs are oversize etc. But that is their story not mine.

And I will stand by the fact that more early desexing will eventually lead to less animals in the pound, because if there were no uterus's and testicles except for breeding animals then there will be less animals.

Edited June 12, 2011 by KOE

[aussielover]

I don't get the point of your post?

Are you saying you think all dogs should be desexed early (at 6 months?)

Early desexing has its risks and benefits; surely it is up to the owner to decide what to do.

Many vets these days recommend that ideally large breeds be desexed after their first season (female)or at 18 months (male) and this is now what is being taught to students.

[IngeK]

And I will stand by the fact that more early desexing will eventually lead to less animals in the pound, because if there were no uterus's and testicles except for breeding animals then there will be less animals.

Seriously, how do you see this happen? People have to be educated and be made aware of all the dogs in the pounds, not solving this issue by desexing all animals. In my eyes thats a wrong way of dealing with things.

[tdierikx]

Easy to tell an early desexed male dog... the pizzle is usually quite underdeveloped, so looks a lot smaller than one on a dog that was allowed to mature naturally.

T.

[whiskedaway]

I don't get the point of your post?

Are you saying you think all dogs should be desexed early (at 6 months?)

Early desexing has its risks and benefits; surely it is up to the owner to decide what to do.

Many vets these days recommend that ideally large breeds be desexed after their first season (female)or at 18 months (male) and this is now what is being taught to students.

Exactly. And with a coated breed, they should be desexed after their first coat drop - as time goes on it's becoming obvious that a coated breed desexed before that has a bigger, more unmanageable coat for their owners to look after, which if an owner isn't prepared for, could cause the dog to end up in a pound.

[Jumabaar]

Personally, I have found male GSD's who have been desexed early by 4 or 5 years old have an odd shape about them, like a fullness behind the rib area with no tummy tuck compared with an entire male or one desexed around 18 months. It's hard to explain the "look" I have noticed, but I can generally tell which males have been desexed early once they are fully matured there is a definite strange shape about them

OLiver was desexed at 6 years and he looks like that no tuck.

As I said everyone has their own opinions I agree with early desexing, have 2 with no problems and they are now 7 and 5, so still waiting to see.The DIL's maltese was early desexed and is now 3 and she is a normal size as well.

And I never said it proves anything, just putting it out there, everyone is entitled to their opinion and when newbies come to the forum asking advise and get jumped on for mentioning early desexing,that their dog wont grow properly etc etc well they can look at it from another perpective.And saying that bitches WILL be incontintent is a load of pigsfaluky . My old Vizsla desexed at 10 was incontinent from the operation, Kim desexed at about 6 or 7 isnt, DIL's malt is not incontinent either.

There are also dogs around and the owners are dol members who did not desex until 14 months and those dogs are oversize etc. But that is their story not mine.

And I will stand by the fact that more early desexing will eventually lead to less animals in the pound, because if there were no uterus's and testicles except for breeding animals then there will be less animals.

But just because there are less animals around how does that mean that there will be less dumped dogs?

As far as I know a large proportion of animals are dumped after puppy stage. So they are finding homes, but people are getting tired of them. This is somewhat because puppies are freely available, but mostly because people have not placed a high enough value on choosing the correct pet, or doing any training with them. I could understand saying that less animals would decrease the numbers in pounds if MOST pound animals were puppies (that couldnt find homes) but I dont think this is the case.

More emphasis should be placed on educating the public than focusing on early desexing IMO.

[KOE]

Hi Aussie lover

My post has no point really,only to let the newbies know that all hell and damnation will not fall on them if they decide to desex their animals prior to 12 months and no I do not believe every dog should be desexed.

Dogs that are going to pet homes should be desexed,

tdierikx---- the boys have small penis"s but they can still pee so I dont think that matters.

Ingek ---- And you have it in one -In my eyes thats a wrong way of dealing with things.(which is your opinion)

and this is my opinion, if I bred puppies they would be tatooed,microchipped and desexed prior to leaving my premises unless they were going to another breeder or a trusted show home.

[tdierikx]

KOE - I volunteer and foster for rescue - all of our rescues are desexed before rehoming, even the pups. However, my own current permanent furkids were desexed as adults - my male Rotti was never desexed, and he was the longest and leggiest Rotti I've ever seen, 47kgs of long lean sooky boofhead... *grin*

There is some evidence showing that a large number of early desexed dogs long bone growth plates seem to close later than those of the same breed left intact... however, there is also evidence that it may not be as big an issue. The fun thing about studies into such things is that one starts with a theory, then gathers the evidence to "prove" that theory... could go either way depending on the starting theory, yes?

As for the smaller pizzle thing - it was just as a point of reference in discerning an early desexed male is all...

T.

[Diva]

Did anyone but me see that recent study finding that females Rotties desexed before 6 years of age averaged shorter life spans than those desexed later?

Basically it said that for female dogs the longer they keep their ovaries the longer they lived on average - it's only one study on one breed, but still very interesting.

[KOE]

KOE - I volunteer and foster for rescue - all of our rescues are desexed before rehoming, even the pups. However, my own current permanent furkids were desexed as adults - my male Rotti was never desexed, and he was the longest and leggiest Rotti I've ever seen, 47kgs of long lean sooky boofhead... *grin*

There is some evidence showing that a large number of early desexed dogs long bone growth plates seem to close later than those of the same breed left intact... however, there is also evidence that it may not be as big an issue. The fun thing about studies into such things is that one starts with a theory, then gathers the evidence to "prove" that theory... could go either way depending on the starting theory, yes?

As for the smaller pizzle thing - it was just as a point of reference in discerning an early desexed male is all...

T.

lo both the boys have wee ones but honestly until those 2 have any problems I will keep campaigning

I knew I should not have gone to the bloody pound yesterday.

[stormie]

Easy to tell an early desexed male dog... the pizzle is usually quite underdeveloped, so looks a lot smaller than one on a dog that was allowed to mature naturally.

T.

Orbit's penis has actually shrunk considerably since being desexed He was done at 18months of age and is now coming up to 4.

[tdierikx]

I had an adult Rotti female develop a bit of incontinence after she was desexed. I have not owned any dogs that were desexed at a young age, but many friends have, and they all seem perfectly fine so far... *grin*

As for visiting the pound... I know what you mean there... depressing isn't it?

I've come to the conclusion lately that it seems like a large number of perfectly nice tempered and healthy dogs end up in pounds, while doting owners tend to keep their horrid snappy ones... why is that?? Seriously, the number of really nice dogs in the pounds is astounding...

T.

[aussielover]

I've come to the conclusion lately that it seems like a large number of perfectly nice tempered and healthy dogs end up in pounds, while doting owners tend to keep their horrid snappy ones... why is that?? Seriously, the number of really nice dogs in the pounds is astounding...

T.

Those owners would probably end up turning the nice pound dogs into horrible snappy dogs as well...

Most "problem" behaviours are created by the owners.

[Kavik]

I've come to the conclusion lately that it seems like a large number of perfectly nice tempered and healthy dogs end up in pounds, while doting owners tend to keep their horrid snappy ones... why is that?? Seriously, the number of really nice dogs in the pounds is astounding...

T.

Those owners would probably end up turning the nice pound dogs into horrible snappy dogs as well...

Most "problem" behaviours are created by the owners.

Hey - not all dog problems are created by the owner! Certainly not intentionally as you are suggesting Some of us with problem dogs work VERY hard to try to fix the problem. Some dogs are more difficult than others.

[aussielover]

I've come to the conclusion lately that it seems like a large number of perfectly nice tempered and healthy dogs end up in pounds, while doting owners tend to keep their horrid snappy ones... why is that?? Seriously, the number of really nice dogs in the pounds is astounding...

T.

Those owners would probably end up turning the nice pound dogs into horrible snappy dogs as well...

Most "problem" behaviours are created by the owners.

Hey - not all dog problems are created by the owner! Certainly not intentionally as you are suggesting Some of us with problem dogs work VERY hard to try to fix the problem. Some dogs are more difficult than others.

No not all, and definitely not intentional.

I know myself I have created problem behaviours in my dog unintentionally (a problem for me, not for her).

I was more suggesting that snappy small breeds are usually a problem created by owners overindulging their dogs and not providing enough boundaries and stimulation for the dog.

The nicest dog can be ruined in a bad home is more the point I was trying to make, sorry if I offended you

[Liath]

All my dogs have been desexed at 6 months of age. No health problems have surfaced because of desexing. My mums current dog was also desexed at 6 months and she has just turned 18. Only thing wrong with her is old age.

[mumtoshelley]

I'm not going to mention anything I'm going to let you all guess early desexing or still intacted. Here are the pictures

[WreckitWhippet]

To all those out there that are in 2 minds whether to desex your larger breed prior to 12 months of age please go and look at the GSD. He is 7.5 months already desexed and is very well put together. He does not appear to be oversized, lacking in substance or spindley.

There are those that are dead set against early desexing, and try to get people to think their way and there is just no changing their minds, as they are set in their mindsight.

But for the others please look at this dog and think of desexing your puppies if not going to show homes and maybe just maybe then the numbers put in pounds and rescue will eventually decrease.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/221844-german-shepherd-purebred-pup-75mths/page__view__getnewpost__fromsearch__1

and for that one dog that appears to be ok, I can show you a Dane pup that has been done at 4 months and it's horendous. Which ever vet performed that op, should not be allowed to practice .

[Steve]

And I will stand by the fact that more early desexing will eventually lead to less animals in the pound, because if there were no uterus's and testicles except for breeding animals then there will be less animals.

Seriously, how do you see this happen? People have to be educated and be made aware of all the dogs in the pounds, not solving this issue by desexing all animals. In my eyes thats a wrong way of dealing with things.

I understand that you feel this is evidence for your beliefs but more research is required before you can ask us to see his condition now as evidence for pro desexing.

All you will see if we go with your position is more desexed animals in pounds. Do you think that puppy farmers will breed more or less to take up the demand?

World wide mandatory desexing hasnt worked to take down pound numbers.

You can't expect to tell how early desexing is affecting that dog and you wont see any impact for years. How do you justify wanting experiments which have been scientifically proven to effect the health and long term well being of an animal to prove a theory that it will cut down animals in pounds? Once it becomes law there is no going back without a class action to make a government which is making us desex pay for the issues our dogs develop - in the mean time it cuts down on their quality of life and longevity - No worries though we can blame the breeder for that. If that dog devlops HD we can blame the breed or the breeder but science says the incidence is increased by miles [over 70% ] if they are desexed early.

Have a look at the side effects from taking away testosterone from any male animal and then seriously tell me that having no testosterone doesnt affect their health and longevity especially in a high growth situation.

Now if you want to advocate for vasectomy or tubal ties - Ill back you in but while ever its about taking away estrogen and testosterone as far as Im concerned its advocating cruelty.

What a joke taking off tails and debarking is in the acts for prevention of cruelty and yet we advocate yanking out organs and leaving them for the rest of their lives without the most important hormones their creator gives them.

The basic fact of life is that tubals and vasectomies leave them with their hormones in tact and it never really was about cutting down on the population its about how taking away their testosterone makes them easier to live with.

Dont lower their voices which is no worse than a tonsils op in order to make em easier to live with unless you jump through hoops because thats cruel but push like mad - to a point of making it law to take out their testicles - oh yes and if you dont like the look go ahead have fake testicles implanted - thats O.K. too.

[IngeK]

As normally, great post Steve! Its actually quite scarey to have a post as this topic starts with for new comers while they might not read the entire topic.