Breed Prejudice

[corvus]

There are many owners of GSD's and Rotties who do the right thing and raise them correctly, that also means making them part of the family but unfortunately it's the bad owners who create breed prejudice.

But there are bad owners in many common breeds, yet not all common breeds have been mentioned in this thread...

[Kavik]

I'm not surprised some people are wary of GSDs, Dobes, Rotties. They have the reputation and are sometimes used as police and security dogs, and it is this perception that also aids in those roles (people respect them, some are more worried about being bitten by a police dog than other police methods). If I wasn't prepared to deal with this attitude then I wouldn't have gotten a GSD. In my current area there are a lot of dogs of various breeds, and I have met several other GSDs and Dobes and people don't seem to be scared of them. Where I used to live (which had a smaller dog population and different ethnic mix) people were scared of my GSD.

and tarope - I attended one GSD day with my boy and did a mock obedience trial and the steward collecting leads was scared of my dog! My boy is fairly small and very soft and sooky (and has the body language to match this ) whereas I've never had a problem with instructors being scared of my dog at normal obedience clubs.

[Diva]

None of my breed prejudices come from any concern for my own safety.They are all about breeds where I have run into very dog aggressive individuals and come from experience, not how a breed looks.

[GoldenGirl85]

There are many owners of GSD's and Rotties who do the right thing and raise them correctly, that also means making them part of the family but unfortunately it's the bad owners who create breed prejudice.

But there are bad owners in many common breeds, yet not all common breeds have been mentioned in this thread...

There are two horrible labs in my area, they're great distraction training for Lexi, but I rarely go near them, they start growling and snapping whenever another dog walks past, then they start snapping at each other. These labs are FAT, and very poorly socialised and trained

[Lemonlime]

I HATE dog parks and the owners at dog parks who always cry innocent until it is THEIR dog that gets hurt.

Dog parks are a recipe for disaster. They attract so many different breeds who all play differently. Some very rough, some who prefer their own space, some who body slam, some who mouth, some who chase, some who "eye", some who steal other dogs balls and toys, some who hastle the submissive dog.

I have seen sooooo many fights which could have been avoided if d*ckheads took responsibility for their own dog and didnt just let the dog off the lead to run wild, chasing children, rushing at other dogs and running so far away that the owner wouldnt have a chance in hell of controlling a situation that might occur.

Apparently manners and common sense go out of the window because their is a sign that says "dogs allowed off leash".

And yes, sorry im rambling. Just something that really peeves me. Although in saying this, these are probably the same people who let their children run wild in shops and have no control over them either.

Now, I love these breeds and have owned them in the past, but after working in kennels for many years, I found the hardest dogs to kennel are Staffords, Am Staffs, ACDs (Backyard bred dogs). Everytime we would get one of these breeds in (especially Am Staffs), the staff would say "Ugggggh"

ALWAYS Dog aggressive, noisy, anxious, nervous, hyper and unpredictable. And nearly always badly bred. I find most owners dont go to registered breeders for these breeds because they are so readily available and in the case of Staffords, there are even registered breeders who I wouldnt buy from!

Am Staffs do make me think twice about whether I should cross the road. Unfortunately they attract the wrong owners. Being in the pet industry I see dogs like this daily. I can always pick the people who own the "big tough" Staffords before I even have to ask :doh: No wonder these dogs have a bad rep, you only have to look closer at most of the owners.

EFS

Edited June 14, 2011 by groupfive

[korbin13]

There are many owners of GSD's and Rotties who do the right thing and raise them correctly, that also means making them part of the family but unfortunately it's the bad owners who create breed prejudice.

But there are bad owners in many common breeds, yet not all common breeds have been mentioned in this thread...

Just read through this huuuuge thread and can't think of what common breed hasn't been mentioned?

BTW I have a healthy respect for all dogs. We just try to stay away from them all and this is so that I can protect my own! We did basic obedience and now just do our own training. We have a group of about 6/7 dogs that we socialize with, on occasion, not often.

I walk with a stick, any offlead dogs that get too close, cop it!

[poodlemum]

Quote, poodlemum

I've always found GSDs to be nasty cowardly dogs who will slink away from another dog when alone but are happy to attack when in a pack. I think that GSDs' have been very badly bred in recent years to conform to the ridiculous standard - the ones I have seen at shows look positively deformed with that horrible sloping back

Quote, Inevitablue

It's ok, some people fail to be pragmatic, or it could be the chip on the shoulder getting him/ her down.

I could be cheeky and say this could be an example of a personality type that wants to own 'impressive' dogs Get your head out of the clouds.

As DOL is about promoting pure breed dogs, I don't think your Ill Informed comment about a breed you have never owned is doing that poodlemum.

Gee, you REALLY love that "mad" icon, don't you . The thread title is breed PREJUDICE. One doesn't need to have owned a particular breed to observe behavior and, if you had bothered to read all my posts, instead of just bits, you would see that I say that the GSDs I have seen at dog parks were most likely from BYBs. Sure, DOL is about promoting pure breed dogs but one doesn't have to like the appearance of all of them - I happen to think that GSDs have become ludicrously miss-shapen with the exaggerated sloping back.

As for your above comment Inevitablue, maybe I should be doing the reporting. ;)

I'm not afraid of any breed and will always defend my chosen breeds from people who make negative stupid statements about breeds they have never owned, like it or not.

And I am not afraid to state my feelings about a breed. I was a Dog Obedience Instructor for many years, which gave me the opportunity to observe various breeds and how they inter-acted with other dogs. What are YOUR qualifications, Tarope?

As an All Breeds Instructor you would see cross bred and backyard so called GSD's with very bad Temperaments purchased by people who haven't got a clue how to handle them. I have seen an All Breeds Instructor who was very scared of my GSD and she was only a pup(12 mths) at that time. I'm not having a go at you,but anyone can be an All Breed Instructor with no experience at all. To be an Instructor with the GSDL you must have the experience and pass all the exams too.

You asked what are my Qualifications, well I was a member of the GSDL for a few years and both my GSD's who are papered did Obedience training for several years. At GSD training you are shown how to handle and raise you GSD correctly and if you have a problem you only have to ask.

I was a member of two branches of the GSDL and have seen many GSD's both dog and bitch and I would not call any of them cowardly, fear biting was a big problem years ago so I'm told this is not the case now thanks to the GSDL.

With GSD's dogs don't like other dogs and bitches don't like other bitches and some don't like either and you are told this on the very first night of training so you keep your dog or bitch on a short lead at all times. They are also stubborn and have a mind of their own at times, shed 365 days per year. There are two types of GSD's, the calm and the hyperactive, I have one of each but not by choice and a desexed dog and bitch are the best combo with this breed. So as you can see I do have a little experience this wonderful breed. Am a member of the Rottie Club and have done Obedience with them too, aren't you sorry you asked.

There are many owners of GSD's and Rotties who do the right thing and raise them correctly, that also means making them part of the family but unfortunately it's the bad owners who create breed prejudice.

OH, I agree 100% with this!! I once had a lady at Obedience training ask me if my Standard Poodle was OK with small dogs - she had been to another Obedience club where someone had a Standard Poodle with a very bad temperament who had attacked her dog & this had made her wary of all Standard Poodles. Wariness is not necessarily a bad thing, though. When I introduced her to my dog & my dog to her dog she felt better about HIM, anyway, but I would bet she would still have been wary of Standard Poodles - we always remember the bad incidents longer.

Edited June 14, 2011 by poodlemum

[poodlemum]

Quote, poodlemum

I've always found GSDs to be nasty cowardly dogs who will slink away from another dog when alone but are happy to attack when in a pack. I think that GSDs' have been very badly bred in recent years to conform to the ridiculous standard - the ones I have seen at shows look positively deformed with that horrible sloping back

Quote, Inevitablue

It's ok, some people fail to be pragmatic, or it could be the chip on the shoulder getting him/ her down.

I could be cheeky and say this could be an example of a personality type that wants to own 'impressive' dogs Get your head out of the clouds.

As DOL is about promoting pure breed dogs, I don't think your Ill Informed comment about a breed you have never owned is doing that poodlemum.

Gee, you REALLY love that "mad" icon, don't you . The thread title is breed PREJUDICE. One doesn't need to have owned a particular breed to observe behavior and, if you had bothered to read all my posts, instead of just bits, you would see that I say that the GSDs I have seen at dog parks were most likely from BYBs. Sure, DOL is about promoting pure breed dogs but one doesn't have to like the appearance of all of them - I happen to think that GSDs have become ludicrously miss-shapen with the exaggerated sloping back.

As for your above comment Inevitablue, maybe I should be doing the reporting. ;)

I'm not afraid of any breed and will always defend my chosen breeds from people who make negative stupid statements about breeds they have never owned, like it or not.

And I am not afraid to state my feelings about a breed. I was a Dog Obedience Instructor for many years, which gave me the opportunity to observe various breeds and how they inter-acted with other dogs. What are YOUR qualifications, Tarope?

As an All Breeds Instructor you would see cross bred and backyard so called GSD's with very bad Temperaments purchased by people who haven't got a clue how to handle them. I have seen an All Breeds Instructor who was very scared of my GSD and she was only a pup(12 mths) at that time. I'm not having a go at you,but anyone can be an All Breed Instructor with no experience at all. To be an Instructor with the GSDL you must have the experience and pass all the exams too.

You asked what are my Qualifications, well I was a member of the GSDL for a few years and both my GSD's who are papered did Obedience training for several years. At GSD training you are shown how to handle and raise you GSD correctly and if you have a problem you only have to ask.

I was a member of two branches of the GSDL and have seen many GSD's both dog and bitch and I would not call any of them cowardly, fear biting was a big problem years ago so I'm told this is not the case now thanks to the GSDL.

With GSD's dogs don't like other dogs and bitches don't like other bitches and some don't like either and you are told this on the very first night of training so you keep your dog or bitch on a short lead at all times. They are also stubborn and have a mind of their own at times, shed 365 days per year. There are two types of GSD's, the calm and the hyperactive, I have one of each but not by choice and a desexed dog and bitch are the best combo with this breed. So as you can see I do have a little experience this wonderful breed. Am a member of the Rottie Club and have done Obedience with them too, aren't you sorry you asked.

There are many owners of GSD's and Rotties who do the right thing and raise them correctly, that also means making them part of the family but unfortunately it's the bad owners who create breed prejudice.

OH, I agree 100% with this!! I once had a lady at Obedience training ask me if my Standard Poodle was OK with small dogs - she had been to another Obedience club where someone had a Standard Poodle with a very bad temperament who had attacked her dog & this had made her wary of all Standard Poodles. Wariness is not necessarily a bad thing, though. When I introduced her to my dog & my dog to her dog she felt better about HIM, anyway, but I would bet she would still have been wary of Standard Poodles - we always remember the bad incidents longer.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Some (dogs are) very rough, some who prefer their own space, some who body slam, some who mouth, some who chase, some who "eye", some who steal other dogs balls and toys, some who hastle the submissive dog.

My dog does all these things - except hassle the submissive dog - because she is the submissive dog. What my dog does that makes her so popular is match her play style to the other dog. If the other dog wants their ball back, she drops it immediately. If the other dog wants to be left alone, she does. If the other dog likes body slam, so does she. If the other dog says stop/had enough - she does.

And yet there are some that are too rough for her, and they don't stop when she says she's had enough. Fortunately for me, she comes back to me when this happens and I sort the other dog, and owner if need be.

Most owners will deal with their dog if you ask them to come and get their dog off you (and your dog), but I feel some things are obvious and I shouldn't have to ask a stranger to get their slobbery soggy labrador off me, or to stop their too rough malamute harrassing my dog.

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

I'm with Corvus on this; there are certain breeds I'm very cautious about allowing my dog to interact with, as I know she doesn't appreciate their 'style'. I am especially cautious if the owners of these dogs don't appear to be very savvy or aware of their dog's behaviour.

Like Mita, I don't to much like small dogs in general. This comes from spending a lot of time at dog shows as a small child, and having too many small dogs go nuts at me for just walking past. I recognise that this is a prejudice, and I'm very careful to keep an open mind when I meet small dogs, especially when I teach them in class, but they are not, as a group, the type of dog I'd own.

I've also faced prejudice against my dog on a breed basis. My girl is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi, and they do tend to be more laid back than the Pembrokes in general, although they're also more standoffish with strangers. I often get people comment, in a surprised fashion, that they like my girl. They've usually only met a few Pembrokes in the past, and Pembrokes often suffered from poor ownership of people who treated them like a cute toy dog, forgetting that they are also a smart, energetic herding dogs, an then act all surprised when they get snippy, and start trying to control things! My girl, aside from the more lad back Cardi temperament, also gets plenty of exercise and training, and has been very well socialised.

So I think we all have our biases - biases are simply a mindset of behaviour we have learnt through observation and practice, and they can be a useful short cut to judge the world we move through. If we're aware of them, and how we use them, they shouldn't be a problem!

[OSoSwift]

I personally don't let my dogs play with Staffords and crosses. Not that the ones I know are DA or anything but their playing style is far too rough for my Whippets.

Rommi got T-boned by a little Stafford and it hurt her shoulder quite badly. The little Stafford really wasn't doing anything wrong and it is the same style our Stafford used when playing with our Dobes. I do not think they are all bad, but yes I am wary.

I am wary of most dogs until I know them or have had a chance to watch them, how they play and their body language. I have learnt it is safer to presume their owner has no idea about their dogs body language and what they are saying than to believe them when they say - Oh Rover is alright and only wants to say hello.

[corvus]

Just read through this huuuuge thread and can't think of what common breed hasn't been mentioned?

Beagles? Huskies? CKCS, Cocker Spaniel, GSP, Viszla, sheltie, Whippet, Boxer? I probably should have said many common breeds have rated barely a mention. GRs, BCs, Kelpies, large poodle crosses (???). Mostly this thread has ended up being about staffy types, SWFs and GSDs and to a lesser extent labs, dobes, rotties... I don't think poor ownership alone can account for them being singled out over and over again.

CleoJ, my little Pem tended to get a lot of surprised "she's a nice dog, isn't she?" sorts of comments as well. I had a lot of people tell me she was the first nice corgi they'd met. OH was one of them and started out quite dubious about Penny, but he grew very attached to her in the end. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never met a corgi of either kind that was nasty. I guess that they probably went through a period of popularity that I came in on the end of, which might explain it.

MrsRB, your girl sounds like an excellent dog park candidate. I know a few like that and they are very popular. Erik has a dog park godmother who he still greets with the enthusiasm of a puppy every time he sees her. She is rough with the dogs that like it rough and gentle with the dogs that like it gentle. A pleasure to watch. Kivi is pretty good, but can get carried away with his contact sometimes. Erik is more sensitive about body contact, but that goes both ways and he really hates being knocked around by large dogs he doesn't know. Kivi is a spaz and loves being bowled over and jumped on. He is so mild mannered and tactile he makes a good playmate for staffies. It's just Erik we look out for.

[Scales of Justice]

corvus

Beagles? Huskies? CKCS, Cocker Spaniel, GSP, Viszla, sheltie, Whippet, Boxer? I probably should have said many common breeds have rated barely a mention. GRs, BCs, Kelpies, large poodle crosses (???). Mostly this thread has ended up being about staffy types, SWFs and GSDs and to a lesser extent labs, dobes, rotties... I don't think poor ownership alone can account for them being singled out over and over again.

Your perceptions are not quite right. BCs were mentioned in negative terms and although there has been some discussion to the negative of GSDs many of the posts were in positive terms.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Scales of Justice

[Inevitablue]

Some (dogs are) very rough, some who prefer their own space, some who body slam, some who mouth, some who chase, some who "eye", some who steal other dogs balls and toys, some who hastle the submissive dog.

My dog does all these things - except hassle the submissive dog - because she is the submissive dog. What my dog does that makes her so popular is match her play style to the other dog. If the other dog wants their ball back, she drops it immediately. If the other dog wants to be left alone, she does. If the other dog likes body slam, so does she. If the other dog says stop/had enough - she does.

And yet there are some that are too rough for her, and they don't stop when she says she's had enough. Fortunately for me, she comes back to me when this happens and I sort the other dog, and owner if need be.

I would be thinking some of that is due to her breeding being ACD cross, as well as your attributes as an owner. When not frustrated, under stimulated pains in the butt they are more aware of their body language than most dogs. I see it all the time with ACD's. I remember a thread a few months ago What's was the smartest dog you have ever met and ACD's were mentioned most. They just 'get it'.

EDIT: my grammar appears sooo bad! I hate using this IPad with the predictive text I can't turn off, I go back to change one word in a sentence and it changes the whole sentence!

Edited June 15, 2011 by Inevitablue

[corvus]

corvus

Beagles? Huskies? CKCS, Cocker Spaniel, GSP, Viszla, sheltie, Whippet, Boxer? I probably should have said many common breeds have rated barely a mention. GRs, BCs, Kelpies, large poodle crosses (???). Mostly this thread has ended up being about staffy types, SWFs and GSDs and to a lesser extent labs, dobes, rotties... I don't think poor ownership alone can account for them being singled out over and over again.

Your perceptions are not quite right. BCs were mentioned in negative terms and although there has been some discussion to the negative of GSDs many of the posts were in positive terms.

Better?

[corvus]

What's was the smartest dog you have ever met and ACD's were mentioned most. They just 'get it'.

That's because most people haven't met a Swedish Vallhund. ;) They've had a few thousand years on ACDs to hone their intelligence. :D

[mita]

I've also faced prejudice against my dog on a breed basis. My girl is a Cardigan Welsh Corgi, and they do tend to be more laid back than the Pembrokes in general, although they're also more standoffish with strangers. I often get people comment, in a surprised fashion, that they like my girl.

Reverse prejudice from me, about Cardigan Corgis. I think they're one of the gems of the dog world. My family had one called Biddy, when we were kids. She had the most adaptable, sensible temperament. Equally at home following my mother around the house, playing reliably with children in the garden, and sailing around Moreton Bay on my father's motor launch.

A good p/b Cardigan is the best of compact-size family dogs.

[PetSitters]

tarope' timestamp='1308035471' post='5357680']

You asked what are my Qualifications, well I was a member of the GSDL for a few years and both my GSD's who are papered did Obedience training for several years. At GSD training you are shown how to handle and raise you GSD correctly and if you have a problem you only have to ask.

I was a member of two branches of the GSDL and have seen many GSD's both dog and bitch and I would not call any of them cowardly, fear biting was a big problem years ago so I'm told this is not the case now thanks to the GSDL.

With GSD's dogs don't like other dogs and bitches don't like other bitches and some don't like either and you are told this on the very first night of training so you keep your dog or bitch on a short lead at all times. They are also stubborn and have a mind of their own at times, shed 365 days per year. There are two types of GSD's, the calm and the hyperactive, I have one of each but not by choice and a desexed dog and bitch are the best combo with this breed. So as you can see I do have a little experience this wonderful breed. Am a member of the Rottie Club and have done Obedience with them too, aren't you sorry you asked.

It's good that the GSDL teach people how to raise dogs of unstable nerve as a standard protocol, so why don't they teach breeders how not to breed them and strike dogs like this off never to be bred instead of awarding them champion status?

Edited June 15, 2011 by PetSitters

[Online Pets]

I think everyone has "breed prejudice" so some extent. Whether it be due to a bad experience, personal dislike of the breed or a story they heard from a guy who knows a guy. Staffys & pitbulls probably have the worst public perception, most of which is probably down to the owners and how they are brought up.

[Quickasyoucan]

Of course the flip side of breed prejudice is assuming a breed is going to be "safe" just because it is a certain breed.

Look at the outcry when Busta the GR (who is now owned by K9Pro) was in the news for allegedly biting several people. People couldn't believe a GR would do that. Yet, setting media hyperbole aside, on the assessment of a professional, that dog does have some resource guarding tendencies. I have met another GR owner whose dog did not like children by her own words and was in the process of being declared dangerous because she left it tied up outside a shop and it bit a child who came to pat it. Stupid owner in that case to set the dog up to fail and I am not singling out GR's, but simply mentioning that they are a breed that joe public assume will be friendly and it is not automatically the case.

I have a friend with a very attractive looking bearded collie. When I was out with him and my stafford cross, people automatically gravitated towards the pretty fluffy dog. Yet that dog goes into active avoidance behaviour when approached by kids and its owners have to be on constant alert for random kids whose parents think it is okay just to let them run up and pat the puppy.

We had welsh springers as a child, again attractive soft looking spaniels. Yet one of the pups we bred (interestingly to a stud dog who it turned out did not like children), would growl and stare every time she saw a toddler. Nothing ever happened with her, but we did have to be careful not to put her in situations where young children were around.

I think the old adage never judge a book by its cover should be borne in mind by all of us...

Edited June 15, 2011 by Quickasyoucan