poodlemum Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I've always found GSDs to be nasty cowardly dogs who will slink away from another dog when alone but are happy to attack when in a pack. I think that GSDs' have been very badly bred in recent years to conform to the ridiculous standard - the ones I have seen at shows look positively deformed with that horrible sloping back - how they could possibly be a working dog is beyond me! I haven't seen any working line GSDs though - hopefully they are different! The other breed of which I am always wary is Staffies - I have been flamed in the past for saying this, but it's the truth - during my years as an Obedience Instructor EVERY SINGLE Staffy I saw was dog aggressive. My GSD is the most social of all my dogs The most tolerant and the most submissive around other dogs. Big dorky boofhead that he is! Is he show or working line? Oh please tell me you're not going to suggest that makes a difference in this case?! Why? Because it makes no difference what background Kavik's dog is from - he sounds like a lovely GSD with a good temperament. Mine are all show lines and are also lovely dogs who get along well with others too. Not one nasty, cowardly dog amongst them - nor any of my friends GSDs. Sounds like you've dealt with some pretty awful ones but one would hope that you could see the bigger picture, that there are good and bad in all breeds and the working/show debate doesn't come into it I asked out of interest - I know nothing about working-line GSDs & would like to know what they are like as regards temperament etc. I agree with you that I have probably seen some poor examples - the area where I used to live had a large Mediterranean ethnic population - when they have dogs they prefer large, mean-looking dogs and don't socialise them - there was one particular person who used to encourage his dog to attack others . I'm willing to admit that my prejudice is unreasonable (but then, isn't ALL prejudice?) but I have had bad experiences with GSDs and tend to stay away from them. I don't think your predjudice is unreasonable - you can only go off your own experiences, I find it sad that they've been bad when the vast majority of GSDs I know are friendly, happy and playful dogs. If I was in your shoes and had experienced horrible ones, I'd be staying away from them too. I'm glad that your question about working line was curiousity and not a dig at the temperament of showlines as a whole. If we're ever at the same place together, I'd love for you to meet some of my dogs Maybe I've been fortunate, but most of the dogs (of ANY breed) that I have seen at shows have been calm and good-natured. I realise that GSDs bred for the showring or work are worlds apart from the ill-bred, unsocialised ones I had the misfortune to encounter who have made me wary of the whole breed Another breed I used to be frightened of was Dobermans, as I was bitten by one when I was young (totally unprovoked - I was riding my bike and it rushed out of a yard & bit me on the leg). I managed to overcome my fright due to some friends having a lovely, affectionate sweetie of a Dobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snout Girl Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The only breed I am wary of is SWF The only time I have ever been bitten by was a SWF and now they make me nervous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 We'll always see more trouble in popular breeds, if for no other reason than there are more of them and we tend to remember the bad experiences more than the good ones. That said, I definitely see more reactive GSDs than other popular breeds, but that just could be the way that referrals work (GSD people tend to know other GSD people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 lovemesideways I'm surprised you don't have your local rangers on speed dial. And I'm also surprised you'd let your labs deal with an antisocial staffy. Eek. I'm so lucky I've got a grovel dog. Just her body language has headed off so many potential fights. She does like to do the farm dog lie down and ambush, but she's selective. It depends what the other dog does when it sees her doing it. If it comes up all bouncy like, she might rush it (obliquely) and invite play. If it doesn't she may continue to crawl slowly on her belly and invite a sniff session if the other dog is willing, but leaves it alone if it retreats. If the other dog is lunging aggressively at the end of a lead, I call her away. And the crawling on the belly thing has saved her from kamikaze collisions with loads of big clumsy charging dogs. Twas a dalmatian this morning. They did have a lovely time running together though. I pay more attention to doggy body language than what breed it is. And if the dog seems aggressive, I worry more if it is likely faster than my dog (eg the pharoah type hounds). My dog is breedist. She likes GRs, and farm dog bitsas. They're the most fun. But the worst behaved dogs we've met have been a whippet, a very badly managed rotti - owner in denial "it's only being playful" (so why is my dog limping), and a GR, who started attacking other dogs at our park, drawing blood and now we don't see it at all - also the owner's fault for never putting it on lead when it was misbehaving and never giving it any training, no recall, nothing not even a sit and always allowed to jump all over other dogs and people. But some of my dog's best mates are GR, Whippet and Rotti. So it's not a breed thing. I worry more about dogs I perceive as being able to do a lot of damage - depending on their attitude. And ones that don't back off if the other dog submits or grovels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Lab Love Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I am just predjudiced at owners with off lead dogs in an on lead area... Sooooo many lately Or off lead dogs in their unfenced front yards with no owners in sight.... I work hard to keep my two onlead Labs under control and focused on me - as my female is a little DA - trying to control two in this situation - no easy feat - while an offlead dog - whatever the breed - jumps around and wants to play / yaps / growl is not much fun. Thank goodness we have never been rushed at or been in a situation where we have could have been attacked - not too sure how I would cope to be honest... I am predjudiced at the above people who make my daily walks a mindfield of avoiding certain houses / crossing roads to avoid off leash dogs / having to leave walking tracks/park bc dogs are off leash... the list goes on... I am also mindful of other dog walkers BC of walking two large Labs - so will cross the road or give way if others have smaller dogs or look like they have no idea of their dogs' body language / reaction...... I must say all of the above does not for a relaxed and pleasurable walk make Re staffies - my two play with the in laws staffy really well - they play rough but all respect the boundaries.... but they have grown up with each other and are the same age - so I guess different circumstances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I have yet to meet a nice and friendly Westie although I have nothing against the breed at all. The rare times that dogs do try to hump my 2.. all of them have been Westies. I don't mind staffies and Em doesn't mind playing with them. She likes playing rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't think your predjudice is unreasonable - you can only go off your own experiences, I find it sad that they've been bad when the vast majority of GSDs I know are friendly, happy and playful dogs. If I was in your shoes and had experienced horrible ones, I'd be staying away from them too. I'm glad that your question about working line was curiousity and not a dig at the temperament of showlines as a whole. If we're ever at the same place together, I'd love for you to meet some of my dogs You should take that up, Poodlefan - Ish's young girl has met my lappie and she was an absolute delight :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Heres Quinn playing madly with my aunties 8 year old Staffy a couple of months ago. never a problem between them in the 2 days we were there. 7 by Buster-Quinn, on Flickr I know you said there was no trouble between them - but the stance of that Staffy is exactly when I go and grab Boonie away - maybe I'm overracting but I reckon that Staffy is on high alert. could just be a trick of the photo in this pic. Would I be reading the language of dogs wrong by acting this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't mind SWFs. We know some pretty cool ones that like our dogs and will play with them. The ones that don't are usually just scared of dogs bigger than they are. My boys leave them alone and they leave us alone. A couple of times one of the dogs has had a run in with one that has run at them and tried to bite them. They're kinda like "Arg! Run away!" and that's where it ends. They seem more bewildered than upset by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't think your predjudice is unreasonable - you can only go off your own experiences, I find it sad that they've been bad when the vast majority of GSDs I know are friendly, happy and playful dogs. If I was in your shoes and had experienced horrible ones, I'd be staying away from them too. I'm glad that your question about working line was curiousity and not a dig at the temperament of showlines as a whole. If we're ever at the same place together, I'd love for you to meet some of my dogs You should take that up, Poodlefan - Ish's young girl has met my lappie and she was an absolute delight :-) Sorry, I think you've confused me with someone else?? Poodlemum perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Q Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Heres Quinn playing madly with my aunties 8 year old Staffy a couple of months ago. never a problem between them in the 2 days we were there. 7 by Buster-Quinn, on Flickr I know you said there was no trouble between them - but the stance of that Staffy is exactly when I go and grab Boonie away - maybe I'm overracting but I reckon that Staffy is on high alert. could just be a trick of the photo in this pic. Would I be reading the language of dogs wrong by acting this way? I thought that when looking back at the photos aswell. When watching them in movement though Quinn was doing a lot of bouncing around and staying well out of the way, Daphne was doing a lot of slow bumbling around. If the stance she was pulling in the photo was tense I would have stopped them but in movement it was only a second or two of prancing towards Quinn to send Quinn into another round of zoomies. Daphne did roll her on her back twice in the two days, both times because Quinn wouldn't give her a break, both times for only 2/3 seconds and both times just a bit of noise and then it was over, which was probably good learning for Quinn. It certainly didn't frighten her or hurt her. Also, my auntie and uncle are some of the only people in the world I trust to know their dog well enough to listen to what they said about her temperament with other dogs. That said they were only together when I was supervising, otherwise I would just crate Quinn, call her with me or put her in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 We'll always see more trouble in popular breeds, if for no other reason than there are more of them and we tend to remember the bad experiences more than the good ones. Haha, I was about to say almost the same thing. We also tend to identify patterns where there are none. Especially related to negative experiences! It's good for our health. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Heres Quinn playing madly with my aunties 8 year old Staffy a couple of months ago. never a problem between them in the 2 days we were there. 7 by Buster-Quinn, on Flickr I know you said there was no trouble between them - but the stance of that Staffy is exactly when I go and grab Boonie away - maybe I'm overracting but I reckon that Staffy is on high alert. could just be a trick of the photo in this pic. Would I be reading the language of dogs wrong by acting this way? Tail up and looks to have piloerection.. dog in high state of arousal but not necessarily an aggressive display. Certainly would warrant caution and in that breed, I'd be avoiding if possible. My experience is that such dogs don't generally have issues with submissive dogs but a dog that's not tolerant of attempts to dominate might start something a Stafford would finish. And I have a dog that doesn't deal at all well with such displays. We met such a Stafford on our local oval some months back. I let the Whippet deal with him. Its extremely difficult for a dog to give a dominance display to a Whippet running laps around him Stafford owner couldn't stop saying "I've never seen a dog run so fast". In the end it was just a game of chasey. Edited June 9, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Heres Quinn playing madly with my aunties 8 year old Staffy a couple of months ago. never a problem between them in the 2 days we were there. 7 by Buster-Quinn, on Flickr I know you said there was no trouble between them - but the stance of that Staffy is exactly when I go and grab Boonie away - maybe I'm overracting but I reckon that Staffy is on high alert. could just be a trick of the photo in this pic. Would I be reading the language of dogs wrong by acting this way? Depends a bit on the give and take. Not many dogs could negotiate a staffy posturing like that with the required diplomacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atanquin Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I don't like small breeds everytime we took our gsd to the park he would get attacked by a small dog!! He would end up running away from a small snappy dog he was a bit of whimp but still he was 10 times their size and thing that scared us most is that even tho the small dog always attacked him if he went to defend him self because he was thr bigger dog and gsd he would be the one made as a danger it's just bullish$@!t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I also have a grovel dog- she is really submissive to a lot of dogs. In terms of dog fights I think bull breeds are over represented in the number i've seen involved in fights. Quite frankly if i was a small dog owner I would be worried about labs/GRS/big goofy playful dogs- they're just too clumsy and big and although they mean well can often trample a little dog. Although my dog loves playing with a JRT and a mini poodle- both are very hardy little dogs that enjoy playing with a crazy lab- they often get the better of her too! I also find poodles and schnauzers quite noisy, there are quite a few that rush up to other dogs and bark at them in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyandjazz Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I am not breed prejudice I am owner prejudice ......often the owners do not know the signs to look for before a problem starts, i wish at the dogs park you could have a big sign that says..... "PLEASE WATCH YOUR DOG, YOUR DOG IS HERE TO SOCIALISE NOT YOU". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Check out Auntie Staffy's ears. They're not pinned back (unhappy/aggressive), or straight up (looking at prey), they're skewiff, one that way and one the other way. Ie friendly play. At least that's how I'd interpret it. There's a hint of "my rules apply" but no sign of concern with Quinn. Quinn's ears are back but not flattened, and Quin is smiling but not grimacing and Quinn is in a semi-play bow ie anything I do next is just pretend/play. I could be wrong. But I get to see it a lot with my dog, the Quinn pose. And it leads to play if the other dog is willing to chase. Alexandra Horowitz has written some papers about it (read the pdf). http://crl.ucsd.edu/~ahorowit/dogresearch First you see the head. Over the crest of the hill appears a muzzle, drooling. It is as yet not visibly attached to anything. A limb jangles into view, followed in unhasty succession by a second, third, and fourth, bearing a hundred and forty pounds of body between them. The wolfhound, three feet at his shoulder and five feet to his tail, spies the long-haired chihuahua hidden in the high grass between her owner's feet. The chihuahua is six pounds, each of them trembling. With one languorous leap, his ears high in the air, the wolfhound arrives in front of the chihuahua. He lowers his head and bows down to the eyeline of the little dog, raising his rear end up in the air, and holding his tail high. Instead of fleeing from this clear danger, the chihuahua returns the bow, and she leaps onto the head of the wolfhound, embracing his nose with her tiny paws. They begin to play. Edited June 9, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 All situational for me. I'm hesitant to pat a SWF held in the arms of the owner, I'm going to observe individual mally's, staffie's and the like first before letting my dogs off lead with them, and Im certainly not going to enter someones property with an ACD or GSD at the gate. I have ACD's too, so it's all about respecting the purpose of the dog. As for breed predjudice I struggle to feel nice things for one breed, but that stems from way back when I first joined an obedience club as an enthusiastic newbie, to be told by one instructor if I wanted to get anywhere in obedience then I should put my dog down and get the breed she used. From that moment on its like fingernails down a chalk board when I hear people make excuses for their dog's bad behaviour 'cause it's the smartest breed in the world'. Yep I should get over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 inevitablue Don't judge a whole breed by one idiot instructor. Or instructors either. There are great and appalling examples of both out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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