Question About Younger Pup Hurting Older One In Play

[cherish]

Hi,

We have a purebred English Spring Spaniel, Shiloh, who is 8 months old. He has a fantastic temperament. A couple of months ago we added a new puppy, a Springer/Cocker spaniel cross. Shiloh immediately took him under his wing and they spend lots of time playing. As the little one gets older he is becoming rougher and rougher in play. He hangs off Shiloh's ears, tail, legs and cheeks as he's running for the ball etc., and lately has started trying to shake him with his teeth. Shiloh is still physically bigger though the new pup is rapidly growing and we expect he will soon be the same size. Shiloh often yelps when the pup hurts him, but continues to play with him. We have been waiting for Shiloh to correct the puppy somehow, but he just never does and we're concerned about how rough the younger one is getting towards him. We are trying not to interfere so they can work out which one is going to be dominant. We always feed Shiloh first. He is an extremely happy, friendly dog and very protective of 'his puppy" but we don't like him getting hurt by the younger one and this is increasing. Is it just that he is very tolerant, or is there a problem? Any advice would be appreciated, especially from ESS owners?

[aussielover]

Shiloh is probably just very tolerant although you didn't say how old the new pup is? There comes a point where annoying puppy behavoiur is no longer tolerated (usually around 4-5 months) before this a young puppy can pretty much do anything to a well socialised and stable adult and not really be punished. You should separate the dogs when the play is too rough, for Shiloh's sake.

Feeding Shiloh first isn't going to establish pack order, if that is why you do it? I would feed them separately in crates or different rooms to minimise risk.

You are the boss so you dictate what behaviour is acceptable... if you find the play too rough, you decide when the play ends.

They are very cute btw

[cherish]

Shiloh is probably just very tolerant although you didn't say how old the new pup is? There comes a point where annoying puppy behavoiur is no longer tolerated (usually around 4-5 months) before this a young puppy can pretty much do anything to a well socialised and stable adult and not really be punished. You should separate the dogs when the play is too rough, for Shiloh's sake.

Feeding Shiloh first isn't going to establish pack order, if that is why you do it? I would feed them separately in crates or different rooms to minimise risk.

You are the boss so you dictate what behaviour is acceptable... if you find the play too rough, you decide when the play ends.

They are very cute btw

Thanks aussielover. The younger pup is now 4 months old and he was just 6 weeks when we introduced him to Shiloh. There is about four and a half months aged difference between them. I guess we were feeding Shiloh first to avoid any jealousy problems (on Shiloh's part). They are fed at the same time on our back decking, but away from one another and we haven't had any problems over food, only the play issue. We do separate them when the young one, Hunter, gets too rough, but of course we are not always around and they spend the day together. They do seem to love each other, and cuddle up together at night in the laundry, and often in the day also. But the younger one does seem to have more of an aggressive temperament (not towards people, just Shiloh). I forgot to mention that Shiloh has been desexed (with an implant) but Hunter not yet as he's still too young. But we will definitely be getting him done at six months. I am wondering if that could be a factor also.

[persephone]

and he was just 6 weeks when we introduced him to Shiloh.

the younger one does seem to have more of an aggressive temperament (not towards people, just Shiloh).

and he may not be fully competent in "DOG" .

Part of the reason ethical breeders do not rehome puppies until at least 8 weeks is that those latter weeks are spent learning from 'Mum' ..learning just how far to go - learning the language , so to speak..and learning how to play nice.

If he is of a more pushy type anyway .. this may not be helping.

[aussielover]

Shiloh is probably just very tolerant although you didn't say how old the new pup is? There comes a point where annoying puppy behavoiur is no longer tolerated (usually around 4-5 months) before this a young puppy can pretty much do anything to a well socialised and stable adult and not really be punished. You should separate the dogs when the play is too rough, for Shiloh's sake.

Feeding Shiloh first isn't going to establish pack order, if that is why you do it? I would feed them separately in crates or different rooms to minimise risk.

You are the boss so you dictate what behaviour is acceptable... if you find the play too rough, you decide when the play ends.

They are very cute btw

Thanks aussielover. The younger pup is now 4 months old and he was just 6 weeks when we introduced him to Shiloh. There is about four and a half months aged difference between them. I guess we were feeding Shiloh first to avoid any jealousy problems (on Shiloh's part). They are fed at the same time on our back decking, but away from one another and we haven't had any problems over food, only the play issue. We do separate them when the young one, Hunter, gets too rough, but of course we are not always around and they spend the day together. They do seem to love each other, and cuddle up together at night in the laundry, and often in the day also. But the younger one does seem to have more of an aggressive temperament (not towards people, just Shiloh). I forgot to mention that Shiloh has been desexed (with an implant) but Hunter not yet as he's still too young. But we will definitely be getting him done at six months. I am wondering if that could be a factor also.

I doubt desexing has anything to do with it- Hunter probably has a more boisterous play style.

Do you mean that you brought hunter home at 6 weeks? Because at Persephone said, they learn importnant social skills from their mum and siblings up until around 8 weeks, which is why most breeders dont let pups go till 8 weeks.

Or did you just introduce them to each other at 6 weeks at the breeders place?

If you did bring him home earlier, it could account for his lack of social skills- most pups would stop or at least become more gentle when another pup yelps.

Desexing is not going to greatly change a dogs personality.

[cherish]

Shiloh is probably just very tolerant although you didn't say how old the new pup is? There comes a point where annoying puppy behavoiur is no longer tolerated (usually around 4-5 months) before this a young puppy can pretty much do anything to a well socialised and stable adult and not really be punished. You should separate the dogs when the play is too rough, for Shiloh's sake.

Feeding Shiloh first isn't going to establish pack order, if that is why you do it? I would feed them separately in crates or different rooms to minimise risk.

You are the boss so you dictate what behaviour is acceptable... if you find the play too rough, you decide when the play ends.

They are very cute btw

Thanks aussielover. The younger pup is now 4 months old and he was just 6 weeks when we introduced him to Shiloh. There is about four and a half months aged difference between them. I guess we were feeding Shiloh first to avoid any jealousy problems (on Shiloh's part). They are fed at the same time on our back decking, but away from one another and we haven't had any problems over food, only the play issue. We do separate them when the young one, Hunter, gets too rough, but of course we are not always around and they spend the day together. They do seem to love each other, and cuddle up together at night in the laundry, and often in the day also. But the younger one does seem to have more of an aggressive temperament (not towards people, just Shiloh). I forgot to mention that Shiloh has been desexed (with an implant) but Hunter not yet as he's still too young. But we will definitely be getting him done at six months. I am wondering if that could be a factor also.

I doubt desexing has anything to do with it- Hunter probably has a more boisterous play style.

Do you mean that you brought hunter home at 6 weeks? Because at Persephone said, they learn importnant social skills from their mum and siblings up until around 8 weeks, which is why most breeders dont let pups go till 8 weeks.

Or did you just introduce them to each other at 6 weeks at the breeders place?

If you did bring him home earlier, it could account for his lack of social skills- most pups would stop or at least become more gentle when another pup yelps.

Desexing is not going to greatly change a dogs personality.

Hunter is not a purebred and was brought from a local family. There was no choice about the pick up age as they were not in a position to keep the pups any longer. We did meet mum (a springer) and dad (a cocker spaniel) though and both were happy and healthy. As it was three of the litter ended up going to a pet shop after we took Hunter. He was the largest of the litter of seven and seemed the most confident. Shiloh on the other hand is a purebred from a reputable breeder and was collected at nine weeks. So I take it people are saying Hunter may be behaving this way due to being removed from mum and siblings too early and is not sure how he should behave around other dogs? That's an interesting thought. Shiloh went to puppy pre-school where he met other pups, but Hunter has not had puppy school.

Have added another photo.

Edited June 7, 2011 by cherish