Gayle. Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 If you're not into showing, you're just not. It's not fun for everyone, plenty of people who own pedigree dogs find it downright boring. If it was fun for everyone, numbers wouldn't be in the rapid decline they are now. Are you a member of your state breed club? If not, getting involved there is a good way to get to know people in the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 God the usual crap. :mad Everyone has to start somewhere and with the expressed attitudes here PETA and and the UK person and winning hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 If you are trying to get what amounts to dog gold out of a breeder then yes you need to put some effort in and that often involves heading to a few shows and getting involved. In this context it is ok to tell someone they should get their dog out to a show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) If you're not into showing, you're just not. It's not fun for everyone, plenty of people who own pedigree dogs find it downright boring. If it was fun for everyone, numbers wouldn't be in the rapid decline they are now. Are you a member of your state breed club? If not, getting involved there is a good way to get to know people in the breed. Plenty of people with pedigree dogs have back end titles or no interest in breeding. Most breed clubs organise one thing - shows. Boring or not, if you view showing as serving an apprenticeship it can get the results the OP is looking for... to become a known quanity, not a "fly by nighter" and to become someone that people will trust with a decent Main Register bitch. Right now she has no runs on the board with the dog she has. At 10 months old, some obedience dogs are getting their first passes/titles. So without those runs.. what else can he/she do.. jump in the pond with the rest of us. No one said you have to do it forever. And who knows, maybe the OP will enjoy it. Some of us enjoy a weekened out looking at all kinds of dogs and sharing time with fellow dog tragics, even when we don't win. ;) The OP needs a profile in her breed of choice. Unless she involves herself in a breed specific dog sport, I have no idea how else he/she will achieve it outside the show ring. Edited June 7, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) There are breeders out there that will help you. Some are more understanding to the fact that everyone has to start somewhere. Have your tried looking for breeders in a different state? I recently had my first litter and when I was looking for my bitch I had alot of trouble finding a puppy on Main Register. I found some states where more incline to sell there puppies on Limited. if you do breed you will need to have breeder to contact for advice, so you want to find a breeder that knows your intentions and is OK with it. Edited June 7, 2011 by buddy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) The wait for a show quality bitch may be a lot longer than you think - even if youhave a breeder willing to sell you one. Breeders will almsot always keep the best bitch in the litter themselves, hence why it is not as easy to obtain a main reg bitch as it is a main reg male. Also breeders will need to know who you are usually before they will sell a show quality bitch to you. My first show quality bitch was from a breeder my family had a long assocation with as we had a pet dog from her for many many years and had always kept in touch. I showed that bitch for 3 yrs and got myself known. When I decided I wanted to buy a bitch of a different breed it was surprisingly easy to source one, but had I not been out in the ring showing my first girl regularly this would not have been the case. Breeders want to know that you are comitted to the breed and to the purebred dog world before allowing you to have a main reg bitch. If you are serious about breeding then get your male into the ring, take him to obedience and get known by ppl in both areas. Saying dog shows are bitchy is a given lol. However if you are serious about your intentions why does a little bitching on the sidelines bother you so much? you dont have to get involved in that. I stay out of the ring politics and I get along with pretty much everybody. I find dog shows relaxing and entertaining and have made some great friends through it. Great post indigirl. We had a pet bitch from a breeder and kept in regular contact for her whole 14 years of life. When she passed on and it was time for another dog we went back to the same breeder. Mum mentioned I was interested in showing and we were offered a show bitch because we were already known and trusted by the breeder. Jump ahead a few years of showing her and I was given a bitch to show in a different breed because I was known and already trusted, and then given a second when the arrangement with the first bitch was working out so well, because I proved I was in it for the right reasons, I was known and trusted to them, and I now co-own three dogs with the one breeder, own one outright from the same breeder and our Irish Terrier is also owned outright, plus there are several things planned/on the way at the moment. I love showing and while it isn't for everyone I have met some awesome people through it and learn something new about my breed (or occasionally other breeds too) every single show. Spending hours talking to experienced breeders about lines, standards and breeding is priceless. It shows them how interested I am and that I am involved for the right reasons. Plus seeing so many gorgeous dogs in one place, who could complain about that? Also, seeing others of my breed only furthers my learning on the standard, lines and faults and gives me a better idea of the values and faults in my own dogs. I also have no plans to breed in the next few years, I simply don't think I know enough. I am happy to wait and learn more every weekend. Edited June 7, 2011 by Lyndsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeluca Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) I don't have a prefix yet I don't intent to get on until I know I have good enough breeding stock everything will be planned out well ahead of time. And I have just recently Branched out and started contacting breeders in other states. I would like to stay local for the reassurance of begin able to interact with the breeder like I do my boy's. But I do have the support and guidance of my local kennel club who both show and trial. Poodlefan I understand how cryptic this is with specifics. I have a type gun dog, group 3 he'd be classed in. I have looked at agility and gun dog trials too. While I'm not new to ownership, in the passed my family has had Rotties Dobers and GSDs as well as a chihuahua,a border collie and a corgie. I am new to the competitive and breeding side. I first wanted to get into working shepards about 13 years ago, but I never found the right girl to breed from. Owned some out right gorgeous Shepard. It was all put on pause 7 and a half years ago when I had my daughter and didn't have time for the training side. My kids are now at school and I study from home so about 12 mths ago I decided I wanted to get back into the love I had for dogs. At this time we had a pet female (desexed) of the breed in question and decided to follow on with that breed. This is basically the exact story I inform breeders of when I first contact them. I accept if they are denclined to help and respect their decision. I had considered showing but have been put off at least for the time being. Edited June 7, 2011 by Angeluca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevorne Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Want my honest advice? Show your male. Not only will you get to see him in comparison to other males and potentially title him, you'll soon become a known quantity to other breeder/exhibitors. Whilst showing might not interest you, it will be a means to an end. Networking really matters. If there's a national for your breed, go to that too.. it demonstrates commitment to the breed IMO. Plus you'll get to see what else is out there and maybe you'll find the mentor you need to help you along in your early days of becoming a breeder. Great advice poodlefan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) . Edited June 9, 2011 by SkySoaringMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) If you're not into showing, you're just not. It's not fun for everyone, plenty of people who own pedigree dogs find it downright boring. If it was fun for everyone, numbers wouldn't be in the rapid decline they are now. I agree with Gayle. I would even take it a step further. With the current state of affairs regarding welfare issues surrounding breed ring and breeding for show, I think all potential new breeders should look long and hard at what they want to accomplish and not be made to feel they need to show dogs to be a good breeder. Some of the best breeders I know have never even been to a dog show. In today's world, breeding dogs suitable for their life style (be that pet, working dogs, active sports companion, what have you) with excellent health and moderate fit body has far more importance than having a winning dog show appearance. I do not know what breed you have so it makes it hard for me to make suggestions. But if it is an active breed, I would look into some dog sports, agility, herding, tracking and fly ball are all fun and usually supportive with out politics. I would not join the breed club, at least not yet. I would join some chat groups about your breed and just start learning about it. I would also become an expert on every disease that affects the breed. I would read the RSPCA UK investigation and report on pedigree dog breeding welfare concerns and take note of what areas of concern affect your breed. I would also work with rescue for your breed for a while, it can help you learn how dogs end up in the wrong homes and may prevent it happening to one your your future pups. Join some chat groups on dog genetics and breeding, there's lots to learn. I would not worry about getting a bitch at this point, males can breed for many years and by letting your dog mature you might be giving more time for hidden health problems to come to light, like early cancers. Spend 4-5 years learning about your breed, dogs in general, dog activities and training, health and genetics and do some rescue time and you will be well on your way to making a really well planned decisions to breed. More than likely during that time you will come to know other breeders in your breed and before you know it obtaining a bitch will not be a problem. I wish you all good things and hope you enjoy your adventures with dogs. Edited June 7, 2011 by shortstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevorne Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hello, This is my first post and it may be a bit long but i would like to get full story out and I have so many controversial questions when it comes to breeders and breeding. Last year i contacted a breeder had asked for a male who I intend on going through with obedience trials with the possibility of one day breeding with the promise of full registration and health checks first. They were helpful and gave me my gorgeous boy on main register. He is almost 10 mths now and I have joined local kennel club and are going to weekly obedience lessons as I said I would. I have now spent the last 3 months researching and contacting breeders in regards of purchasing a girl with little to no success. Some have been helpful and respectful, but most haven't. I am fully open and admit I have a male on main register and who I got him from. The same question is asked every-time. "do you intent to breed?" I said "well yes providing the dogs are good temp and pass all health checks but i can't say that is what i will do cause it depends on so much" Thats when I strike out, some have admitted it is because I admit I have a boy, they consider me a backyard breeder and so forth. I even met a breeder who said if I don't show would I be considered a backyard breeder? but then went on to discredit half the breeders out there with awful looking dogs who only win cause they get along with the judge, or and inexperienced judge passes the pretty dog. But then added "there is no reason to breed is you don't show" but later told in same conversation "you don't need to show foundation bitch" There was others who dislike my breeder won't sell me a dog, and others who think it doesn't tie in with their lines. If the dog is health checked and registered. Follows the standard what does lines matter? I find that these breeders are in clicky groups and have heard of Me even before I contact them. This honestly left me completely confused and disheartened. I have agreed with breeders to have the girl on limited until health checks are passed, this of course leaves me at their will if they don't follow through with it, So I to am taking a risk. I want to do this right but I find if I am Honest I will get nowhere. I have found If i had said this is my only dog and I want to show I would have had a bitch months ago on main. To do as I pleased, it was just unethical. I know there is so many questions within this post but I'm have pretty much exhausted with looking for answers and getting nowhere. P.S All breeders I contacted advertise here. And I would like to keep what state I'm from and what breed as I honestly believe It will hinder me further. There are a couple of things which jump out at me from your post but the most telling is the fact breeders have heard about you before you phone them. Which normally means there is something not desirable (to the breeders) in the male you have or you yourself. I have been guilty of that myself, as I am sure others are of phoning my breeder friends to warn them of someone. Most breeders are very approachable and love to talk about their dogs, but we must ensure that other breeders are not discussed. Really how do you know who is on the other end of the phone? How would I feel if I was bad mouthing another breeder to discover it was them! In saying all this I am sure you will find someone to help you, and I wish you the best! Keep us posted. PS, wish I had seen the breed noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 If your boy is from a reputable well known breeder, then they should be able to help you find a suitable female. Networking among breeders is the way most people end up with a decent bitch to start with. It would be best to wait until your boy matures a bit more to get an idea of what type of bitch you need to complement him but even then there is no guarantee that he will suit her when she grows up. If he doesn't suit her are you prepared to not use him and use another more suitable stud dog. On the other hand, if the breeder of your male is not well respected for producing good dogs, then those who are, will not want to sell you a bitch to put to him. They will want their bitches bred only to the very best, not to a dog from a breeder with lines they don't like. In the mean time, as others have suggested, get out and show your boy to let everyone know that you are serious about the breed. Get your boy ready to trial and start getting noticed. I started with a really good male, that I titled in show and obedience and had people offering me bitches after a couple of years from several kennels. These days showing is harder in the big competitive breeds but if you can start winning some age classes in group and placing well at specialties people will respect you even if you don't manage to title your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 . I first wanted to get into working shepards about 13 years ago, but I never found the right girl to breed from. Owned some out right gorgeous Shepard. It was all put on pause 7 and a half years ago when I had my daughter and didn't have time for the training side. My kids are now at school and I study from home so about 12 mths ago I decided I wanted to get back into the love I had for dogs. At this time we had a pet female (desexed) of the breed in question and decided to follow on with that breed. This is basically the exact story I inform breeders of when I first contact them. I accept if they are denclined to help and respect their decision. I had considered showing but have been put off at least for the time being. I trying not to be negative but if I got an email with the above spelling you would just about be an automtic no from me. By not being able to spell a breed's name correctly, that you owned and loved, would really annoy me. I would wonder just how much you knew and cared if you couldn't get the breed right. Maybe it annoyed some of the breeders you contacted. No doubt I will now be jumped on for judging someone for their spelling but you wanted honest feedback. FWIW Poodlefan's post have been spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I don't have a prefix yet I don't intent to get on until I know I have good enough breeding stock everything will be planned out well ahead of time. It might work to your advantage to get a prefix first and then get your breeding stock. Other breeders will be more likely to take you seriously and sell you a female as it would show that you don't plan on becoming an unregistered/backyard breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevorne Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 . I first wanted to get into working shepards about 13 years ago, but I never found the right girl to breed from. Owned some out right gorgeous Shepard. It was all put on pause 7 and a half years ago when I had my daughter and didn't have time for the training side. My kids are now at school and I study from home so about 12 mths ago I decided I wanted to get back into the love I had for dogs. At this time we had a pet female (desexed) of the breed in question and decided to follow on with that breed. This is basically the exact story I inform breeders of when I first contact them. I accept if they are denclined to help and respect their decision. I had considered showing but have been put off at least for the time being. I trying not to be negative but if I got an email with the above spelling you would just about be an automtic no from me. By not being able to spell a breed's name correctly, that you owned and loved, would really annoy me. I would wonder just how much you knew and cared if you couldn't get the breed right. Maybe it annoyed some of the breeders you contacted. No doubt I will now be jumped on for judging someone for their spelling but you wanted honest feedback. FWIW Poodlefan's post have been spot on. Yes I noticed that too! Though she would not be spelling over the phone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeluca Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Oh my sorry about the spelling, i need a new keyboard I try to proof read first but was in a hurry As for the prefix, Is it really better to obtain it first?. Kynan Your raise a point of view I hadn't really thought about in that way. I guess I believed by not getting it I was showing I wasn't trying to rush things....... I really Appreciate the constrictive criticism, and support in what I'm trying to achieve. And i Have more often or not rang rather then email as tone and enthusiasm is lost and I have a chance to explain and define what I mean before they have concluded their opinions, most of the time at least. Edited June 7, 2011 by Angeluca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) I had my prefix about 2 years before I bred my first litter. eta but I already had my bitch Another thing to try is to wait until your boy has matured and got a couple of working titles under his belt and see if you can find a breeder who might want to use him, then you could buy one of his pups. Edited June 7, 2011 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) I had my prefix about 2 years before I bred my first litter. I've had mine for 20 years and still not bred, but I think I'm waaay down the end of that bell curve I think it's often hard to obtain a main registered bitch to breed to an existing dog, unless you are known to breeders and/or the dog has a few accomplishments under his belt. I agree with the suggestions to show the dog or trial him in the obedience ring before chasing a bitch - at least then breeders will know you, know that you have some staying power and aren't all talk, and they will also get to see the dog. Edited June 7, 2011 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothieGirl Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 This discussion has me split right down the middle and arguing with myself. So rather than go a little mad, I'll share my thoughts... Showing is by far not my first dog discipline of choice, however luckily I have met some very lovely people in the scene. Ren is being shown in the hope of getting his title as he may be used as a stud dog and to me it makes sense because it 'hopefully' demonstrates appropriatenss of his conformation as an example of the breed. Flip side... However now, when I personally do any research on a breed or line, I have little interest on whether the dog has a Aust Ch. in front of its name or not. The dogs I'm interested in generally have working or sports titles, to me they provide more evidence of fit for purpose (or meeting the all round aspects of a standard I guess.) I particularly like to see it when a breeder shows AND is 'actively' involved in another discipline. A standard may state that the dogs overall outlook should demonstrate its willingness to work or that it hasgreat stamina or has an ability to perform a particular task or role, just to name a few, but there is little ability to test this out in a show ring. Much of that is down to tractablilty, trainability and their desire to work, which can only be tested via other means than a show ring. I know very little about it, but I think that there are some systems overseas and possibly here in Aust (GSDs???) that tests the dog from a much more holistic point of view. To the OP, if it seems unfair to you to be forced into the show ring and you really don't want to go there, then perhaps as others have already stated, you would be better to title your dog in agility before you start to contact breeders in earnest. There are more sides to the dog world than the show ring and if you are able to make a name for yourself in agility, you may just find a connection to the right breeder through that network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benshiva Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 If showing is really not what you want to do, get your boy ready and start doing obedience trials. If you get out there with your boy and are seen to be doing something with him, breeders will tend to take your enquiries a little more seriously. showing is not for everyone, and I agree it can be downright bitchy, but I'm here to tell you the obedience world is no walk in the park either. Go along and visit some dog shows and chat to people there as well. I promise you, we do not all bite. Some of us are even pretty nice people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now