lappiemum Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I found this entire story to be fascinating. I don't have an opinion on it yet one way or another - but what I found most interesting is the reaction from the authorities on it. Just to summise, an Australian breeder of quarter horses has imported a cloned stallion of America's former top winning stallion. It will be interesting to see how it is dealt with by the quarter hosre community - and it doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to see how it could potentially be transcribed to dogs. Does the ANKC have any rules on accepting cloned animals? If not, would be an interesting debate. Chip off the old Block Source:LandlinePublished:Sunday, June 5, 2011 12:51 AESTExpires:Saturday, September 3, 2011 12:51 AEST Australia's quarter horse fraternity is about to take a giant leap into the unknown with some controversial new breeding technology. Tamworth breeder Richard Bull has imported a stallion that's one of five clones of America's top sporting quarter horse stallion. The legendary Smart Little Lena died last year, however, the super stallion's genes will live on in Australia through his cloned son, appropriately named Salute. link to the video report is http://www.abc.net.a.../05/3235925.htm transcript is at http://www.abc.net.a...10/s3235925.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 From what i Know there is actually 4 clones of this horse. The actual clones are not registered but the offspring can be. It will be interesting to see how it affects the genetics of the breed. There is also cloned Greyhounds in Aus too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I don't see the point of cloning an intact stallion doesn't the AQHA already accept AI? Surely it would be cheaper just to import semen? Maybe he doesn't freeze well but still if he's already reproducing I don't really understand why they felt the need to clone him. The value I see in cloning is to make available for breeding those horses that otherwise wouldn't be able to breed, such as geldings and actively competing mares who, by the time they are old enough to retire from competition could very well be too old for breeding. Any other purpose seems a bit superfluous to me. Similarly when it comes to dogs I see the value in this to make it easier to retain bloodlines and if a desexed pet happens to end up a fantastic example of the breed and worthy of breeding from then the opportunity would be available for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roguedog Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 wow!!! how interesting, I didnt know there were cloned greys here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Wow! I've always found cloning fascinating. Thanks for sharing this Lappiemum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Smart Little Lena is a deceased stallion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I wonder how this is going to effect ownership in the future. Think of thoroughbred racing for example, where stud fees run into the hundreds of thousands for a single service....what is to stop someone stealing your horses DNA, cloning it and then doing whatever they like with 'your' horse? The mind boggles at the many ways this could turn breeding of all animals on it's head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patters Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Cloning would mean that the offspring would be an exact DNA copy to the donor. AI provides only 1 half of the DNA in the offspring, the other half provided by the dam (or egg). That's my understanding of it, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Smart Little Lena is a deceased stallion. Ah I can see why they cloned him to a certain extent then but I suppose it depends on how many of his offspring were already available to pass on the line as to whether it's really worthwhile, otherwise you just end up with another case of popular sire syndrome No need for multiple clones IMO but maybe they were 'spares' given that not all clones are viable? I wonder how this is going to effect ownership in the future. Think of thoroughbred racing for example, where stud fees run into the hundreds of thousands for a single service....what is to stop someone stealing your horses DNA, cloning it and then doing whatever they like with 'your' horse? The mind boggles at the many ways this could turn breeding of all animals on it's head! The TBs don't even allow AI (officially) so they would never allow cloning, they DNA horses for registration too so a clone would really be no use to the TBs as it can't be registered or raced and neither will it's foals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Cloning would mean that the offspring would be an exact DNA copy to the donor. AI provides only 1 half of the DNA in the offspring, the other half provided by the dam (or egg). That's my understanding of it, anyway. Yeah that's right I just meant in terms of cloning him for breeding purposes I didn't see much point if he was already available for breeding but apparently he is no more so in that case it's more a case of prolonging his breeding life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoTree Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 A step into the unknowen. Well I know I don't feel cloning is good for any animal species. Good for the hip pocket of a few though. Cloning Bulls is pretty big business. Worship the all mighty dollar Richard. Thats all it has going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I just don't feel comfortable with the cloning of anything............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Why not? Nature has been cloning for years. Assuming that there will be restrictions on numbers (including numbers of progeny which I think should be in place regardless of whether the sire is a clone) and competing them I don't forsee huge issues. I think it would be a very good thing for widening gene pools and opening up more avenues of choice for breeders, many many horses are lost for breeding because of gelding and age there are lots of exciting possibilities for the future of breeding performance animals. is the most watched dressage performance on youtube, this awesome mare was to be bred but broke her leg in a paddock accident and had to be euthed, it would be circumstances like these that cloning could allow those genetics to be passed on to the next generation of dressage stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I just don't feel comfortable with the cloning of anything............ I am a bit the same, its a bit like playing god.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I wonder how this is going to effect ownership in the future. Think of thoroughbred racing for example, where stud fees run into the hundreds of thousands for a single service....what is to stop someone stealing your horses DNA, cloning it and then doing whatever they like with 'your' horse? The mind boggles at the many ways this could turn breeding of all animals on it's head! The TBs don't even allow AI (officially) so they would never allow cloning, they DNA horses for registration too so a clone would really be no use to the TBs as it can't be registered or raced and neither will it's foals. It's just an example. Surely you can see the potential repercussions of cloning across breeding of all animals that are used for competition? Who will decide who has access to cloning, or will it jut be available to all and sundry if they have the money? Not being able to control your own lines, not being able to keep numbers down to prevent sires (hell, even dams in this case) being overused and flooding the gene pool. And What happens if, in the future, the puppy farmers start cloning instead of breeding? Churning out the same animals again and again that are not restricted from breeding, what happens to the gene pool? I imagine it's a long way off before cloning is widely available and a viable alternative to breeding, but it worries me to think of what will come of it if/when it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Does not belong on DOL. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 is the most watched dressage performance on youtube, this awesome mare was to be bred but broke her leg in a paddock accident and had to be euthed, it would be circumstances like these that cloning could allow those genetics to be passed on to the next generation of dressage stars That was an extraordinary partnership so what's the point of cloning her without cloning Andreas as well? I agree with OSoSwift and Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 It's just an example. Surely you can see the potential repercussions of cloning across breeding of all animals that are used for competition? Who will decide who has access to cloning, or will it jut be available to all and sundry if they have the money? Not being able to control your own lines, not being able to keep numbers down to prevent sires (hell, even dams in this case) being overused and flooding the gene pool. And What happens if, in the future, the puppy farmers start cloning instead of breeding? Churning out the same animals again and again that are not restricted from breeding, what happens to the gene pool? I imagine it's a long way off before cloning is widely available and a viable alternative to breeding, but it worries me to think of what will come of it if/when it does. There would be no point as they couldn't be registered, I see no reason for the registries to allow clones to compete, the performance has already been proven the whole point of cloning is to allow the animal to be bred from. All TBs need to be DNAed to be registered, it is then up to the ruling bodies for that breed to decide the extent to which that clone is used. If they allow progeny of the clone to be registered they can restrict numbers of registered progeny which they should already be doing seeing as how popular sire syndrome is alive and well in many breeds even taking cloning out fo the equation. I doubt the puppy farmers would bother cloning it's expensive and they don't care about bloodlines anyway, far more effort goes into producing a clone than just whacking a couple of entires together so I don't really see a market opportunity there, they might tell buyers that the pup is from some cloned champion but without papers and DNA it's no different to the way they already tell people their pups are registered and by some champion. Ultimatelynit does come down to the registries to ensure that clones are used and applied responsibly but most pure breed registries are taking a hard line approach and no allowing clones to be registered at all so I dare say they will regulate the use quite strongly. Currently most of the horses I've heard of being cloned are performance horses who aren't necessarily pure and therefore are controlled by the performance registries. These animals are clones of top performing geldings and have been produced for the purpose of breeding, not for competition. Does not belong on DOL. Full stop. Since the application can extend to dogs as well (and most likely will in the future) then it is certainly relevant IMO. If a young champion dies before they could be bred from that line could be lost forever. What if it didn't have to be? That was an extraordinary partnership so what's the point of cloning her without cloning Andreas as well? I agree with OSoSwift and Mason For breeding of course. There is no point recreating the performance and I don't beleive clones should be used in competition (I doubt anyone would bother it's a lot of work and a lot of money to get to that level) but performance horse breeding is a big deal and a mare of that talent could have produced some awesome foals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) For breeding of course. There is no point recreating the performance and I don't beleive clones should be used in competition (I doubt anyone would bother it's a lot of work and a lot of money to get to that level) but performance horse breeding is a big deal and a mare of that talent could have produced some awesome foals. I know what you're saying but I still dont agree with it. What's wrong with using the mares and stallions already available. Not enough good ones, then breed them rather than clone them. I just dont get it. there was only one Matine and one Andreas. A clone or it's offspring isnt going to perform the same without the rapport and teamwork those two individuals had regardless of dna. Edited June 6, 2011 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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