Teaching Pup The Down

[sheena]

I have taught my 12 week old BC pup the sit on demand & he does it nicely. I am using a clicker, & have taught him to drop but havn't put a name to it yet as he drops in a very lazy fashion....rolled over on one hip. How do I get him to do a neat drop with all 4 legs tucked up underneath him. I find if I lure him forward a bit after he has flopped he will tuck his back legs up under & I have tried clicking this position. Is there a better way...he just looks at me when I don't click & treat his lazy effort. As I said...I havn't put a name to it yet..it's very early days....just thought someone might have a better method of teaching it correct from the start

Edited June 5, 2011 by sheena

[DeltaCharlie]

At this age I wouldn't be worried about it. I would just be acknowledging the drop. At our place the game that everyone loves is to lie them down and put them in a wait, then walk away, ask them a few times if they are "ready" then release them to a tug (or just release them and they run randomly across the paddock to nowhere LOL). They work out very quickly that the "lazy" drop is not very efficient

That's coming from an agility person mind you, not sure how good a game that would be if you were keen to do obedience too. Mind you, my obedience dogs in the past worked out quickly enough that there was a good chance you were going to be moving again fairly quickly so the same principle applied. If I asked for a wait (stay component) they used to roll over on their hips because they knew they would be lying there a while and I would rather them be comfortable as it means they are more likely to hold their stay.

[alpha bet]

He is only 12 weeks old.... sheese take it easy. He does a drop but it will take time before he understands he has to stay. You can always tidy the drop up later on.....

[Sayreovi]

I am confused by the two responses, why wouldn't you start out training something correctly rather then allowing them to do it the lazy way and having it fix it later?

No different then any thing else you train and I would personally want to do it right the first time around!

My puppy used to do the lazy drop and I didn't correct it as in future she will be allowed to move into that position (drop stays), but once we started heeling she started dropping more efficient and it corrected itself. I had taught my puppy alot of things by the time she was 12 weeks because she wanted to learn, nothing wrong with a bit of mental stimulation for a young puppy.

[Kavik]

I would lure into the kind of drop you want (foldback if that is what you want) - no point in trying to retrain when you can do it right the first time. I teach drop from a stand. Quite easy to fade the lure, as with most things fade as soon as possible. All of my dogs have a good drop on verbal only as well as hand signal.

[Leema]

You could perhaps use the word "down" or "place" for the lazy drop, and "drop" for a more polished drop later on.

[sheena]

I am confused by the two responses, why wouldn't you start out training something correctly rather then allowing them to do it the lazy way and having it fix it later?

No different then any thing else you train and I would personally want to do it right the first time around!

My puppy used to do the lazy drop and I didn't correct it as in future she will be allowed to move into that position (drop stays), but once we started heeling she started dropping more efficient and it corrected itself. I had taught my puppy alot of things by the time she was 12 weeks because she wanted to learn, nothing wrong with a bit of mental stimulation for a young puppy.

I agree with you...why have to train it twice With this pup, I want to train him the right way from the start & not get into "lazy" sits & drops like my older dog...just in case one day I might want to do obedience with him I know in agility "anything goes" as long as they don't move on the start line....it doesn't really matter how they sit or drop.

[Staranais]

Lure him backwards into a straight fold back down and click immediately, before he has time to flop over on one hip. After a while of doing that you can start to build duration.

[fuzzy82]

If you shape it from a stand he's more likely to fold back into it, than if you shape it from a sit.

Does he do it to begin with, then just move onto his hip? If he does, reward heavily for the straight drop and if he rolls onto his hip use your no reward marker and end the exercise. Another thing to do is to train it on the move/in drive, so you're constantly moving and doing very short drops. In anticipation of getting up very quickly, he should do a much straighter drop.

I would still let him to a lazy down though, just use a different cue for it, as it's much easier for the dog to hold the down when rolled onto his hip. It's more comfortable, and it takes him longer to get up.

[Staranais]

If you shape it from a stand he's more likely to fold back into it, than if you shape it from a sit.

That's good advice, too. If you want a foldback down from a sit, they have to stand up first and then lie down = much more complicated.

[Rainy]

I had tis problem with diesel too like others have said do it right the first time!

I taught diesel from a stand as this was the most commen position for him to be in, use a treat and lure his nose back towards his chest and that should give you a nice fold.

Diesel now has 2 commands drop is used for neat square form in the trialing ring or at training, then i tell him to lay (rolled on to one hip) when we are not in formal work eg: walking down the street and stop to talk to someone ill tell him to lay down

[DeltaCharlie]

I am confused by the two responses, why wouldn't you start out training something correctly rather then allowing them to do it the lazy way and having it fix it later?

No different then any thing else you train and I would personally want to do it right the first time around!

My puppy used to do the lazy drop and I didn't correct it as in future she will be allowed to move into that position (drop stays), but once we started heeling she started dropping more efficient and it corrected itself. I had taught my puppy alot of things by the time she was 12 weeks because she wanted to learn, nothing wrong with a bit of mental stimulation for a young puppy.

I agree with you...why have to train it twice With this pup, I want to train him the right way from the start & not get into "lazy" sits & drops like my older dog...just in case one day I might want to do obedience with him I know in agility "anything goes" as long as they don't move on the start line....it doesn't really matter how they sit or drop.

Who said anything about teaching it incorrectly? As far as my criteria goes a drop is lying with your arse end down and your chest on the ground. How you position the rest of your body is completely up to you. So no, my dogs are not learning it incorrectly then having it fixed, they are fulfilling my criteria. I leave it up to them to work out the most efficient manner of performing it and what suits them in terms of comfort. It just so happens that they all start to lie down in the manner you are after within a short period of time so I told you what I do. Even at 6 weeks our puppies knew the command lie down and they would all lie in a "nice" way.

[sheena]

My little Cricket is doing his "drops" on demand, but at this stage I am calling it "down" as it is not perfect...but for a 13 wk old BC, he has the most beautiful "stay". He has worked out pretty quickly that that is where the treats are, so now I am teaching him "get it", otherwise he will stay for ages, not quite understanding that I want him to "release" & go to the treat He is such a character & loves the focus game. Sometimes I think maybe he has already seen the training video & is one step ahead off me.