Gsd Breeder Recommendations

[KitKat]

i seeing pics of Bear and Pearl when she was a baby

That wasn't Pearl, it was Olive another one of my Seda puppies

Oh was it? Still very cute

Kitkat i was under the impression, and please correct me if i am wrong, that they cannot rehome police trained dogs if they fail anymore.

They tend to go through an assessment process before training - so they get a good indication that the dog could make the grade before putting them together with a handler and formally training them. Those that don't cut it are desexed and found suitable homes - the waiting list is longer then the list of available dogs tho! Now it could very well be different in the different States etc. Trained dogs tend to retire with their handler, for those that can't be for whatever reason - they get very carefully picked homes to go to. Two of my fav lovebugs are in training and if they can't stay with their handler when they are retired i'll put my name up for them - tho that's a looooooong time away!!

[Flaves]

So can a GSD be stacked in the All Breeds ring 4 square, or just the White Swiss Shepherd ???

Also, without causing any conflict, I have always wondered why the GSD is stacked like that. Could someone please enlighten me as to why ...

No a GSD is stacked 3 point.

They tend to go through an assessment process before training - so they get a good indication that the dog could make the grade before putting them together with a handler and formally training them. Those that don't cut it are desexed and found suitable homes - the waiting list is longer then the list of available dogs tho! Now it could very well be different in the different States etc. Trained dogs tend to retire with their handler, for those that can't be for whatever reason - they get very carefully picked homes to go to. Two of my fav lovebugs are in training and if they can't stay with their handler when they are retired i'll put my name up for them - tho that's a looooooong time away!!

Thanks Kitkat for the explanation

[~Shepherd~]

Edited June 7, 2011 by Chewbacca

[kateshep]

[

I think you are missing the point Kateshep as your post was in response about a breeder advertising a showline litter from two VA Kkl1 SchH3 imported dogs and what JoeK said was the progeny from this calibre breeding is likely to have a better working ability than an "average" Australian bred working line dog? The litter was advertised as suitable for "anything" including SAR, protection etc and from what I can make of your posts, you are doubting this could be possible because they are showline dogs with the assumption that any run of the mill GSD could attain a SchH3 and receive a Kkl1 rating as the testing process to achieve this has little relevence with working ability or quality control in relation to the breed standards compliance, am I correct?

The answer "no" to my question you are saying that someone new to the breed who reads the breed standards of what a good GSD is supposed possess, are better off selecting a pup from ancestory that haven't been work tested whatsoever in the last 5 generations as the rated dogs in this example doesn't really reflect anything substantial in terms of working ability or the general character of the dog?

As I said previously still waiting on clarification re what Joek said. I specifically said titles aren't worthless, just no absolutes there and further evaluation may be necessary.

If someone wanted a working pup go to a breeder that has active success in producing dogs for performance roles.

[Weizone]

Posted on behalf of Luvmywhiteshepherd as she currently doesn't have access to DOL at work.

Good Morning, I rarely post on DOL anymore, but I was alerted to a few posts regarding my breed that were incorrect & did not contain all information in order for someone to make an informed decision about purchasing a puppy.

To make things clear to the OP, so they do not become as confused as most people are about White Swiss Shepherd Dogs due to information not being posted correctly about this breed.

The White Swiss Shepherd Dog, is a recognised breed in Australia, however, buyers must be aware, that ONLY dogs that fulfill the ANKC criteria & have been re-registered are the only pedigree/registered "White Swiss Shepherd Dogs" in Australia at this time. Please see ruling below.

• All White Swiss Shepherd Dogs imported into Australia MUST comply with ANKC Regulation Part 6 Clauses 3 and all its sub-clauses.

• If in the future people wish to have White German Shepherd Dogs recognised they will have to do so as a completely new separate breed with a NEW Name, and comply with ANKC Regulation Part 6 Clause 9.2 and all its sub – clauses.

• The only dogs born in Australia that can be registered as White Swiss Shepherd Dogs are those dogs resulting from the mating of two imported White Swiss Shepherd Dogs that have been registered with the ANKC on their Main Stud register, or further generations resulting from such matings.

Officially registered White Swiss Shepherd Dogs (Registered with the ANKC) can be shown at any ANKC sanctioned All Breeds show in Australia. I could show every weekend if I wanted to! So we get a lot more than just one show a year as was posted above.

The dogs Bilbo is referring to are NOT registered White Swiss Shepherd Dogs. The club that registers the "Australian White Shepherd, White German Shepherd" dogs & hosts those shows are not affiliated with the ANKC, nor are their shows.

It was hoped, that these dogs would be recognised & accepted in Australia as has been done in other countries, but unfortunately at this time, that has not happened. It is NOT due to politics that the dogs can only be shown once a year. Perhaps if things were acted on correctly years ago & didn't have people in there self destructing it from the inside out, and all the constant fighting & denigrating of those that chose to import & breed officially registered dogs, by owners of 'aussie whites', then it may be a different story.

Yes, the unofficially registered aussie dogs are great, I should know, I bred them first!  Arguing & ramming it down peoples throats in a public forum trying to justify their greatness doesn't reflect well on the breed & people involved sadly. I have been at complete peace removing myself from that & enjoying the ANKC White Swiss Shepherd Dogs.

I personally have offered my support to assist in getting the Australian dogs recognised, as I feel some are quality dogs well deserving of being included in the breed, only to have it rudely thrown back in my face by their 'recognition & publicity officer', wow, they're doing a great job eh? Let's hope with the recent 'change of guard', the club will move forward positively into the future. And again, regardless of the past treatment, I will help any way I can as I am truly passionate about the breed & want to see it succeed & thrive in Australia.

But, until any of this happens, the dogs are in all honestly, unregistered White Shepherds or White German Shepherds, which are being 'marketed' as White Swiss.

If the OP is interested in a registered White Swiss Shepherd Dog, I recommend they visit the Breeder Listing on Dogzonline breeder pages for the White Swiss Shepherd Dog where there is a listing of ANKC breeders.

If you are unsure about whether a breeder and/or their puppies are registered with the ANKC, call up your state affiliate (Dogs NSW, Dogs QLD etc) and they can check to see if the breeder/kennel name is registered with them.

Also, in Australia, the White Swiss Shepherd Dog is now stood 4-Square (not 3 point like a German Shepherd Dog.) It is important to note that these dogs are 2 different breeds, with different proportions, and, to avoid confusion, ANKC exhibitors of this breed do not stand their dogs like German Shepherds in the ring.

If you have any further questions you can email [email protected]

[~Shepherd~]

Posted on behalf of Luvmywhiteshepherd as she currently doesn't have access to DOL at work.

Good Morning, I rarely post on DOL anymore, but I was alerted to a few posts regarding my breed that were incorrect & did not contain all information in order for someone to make an informed decision about purchasing a puppy.

To make things clear to the OP, so they do not become as confused as most people are about White Swiss Shepherd Dogs due to information not being posted correctly about this breed.

The White Swiss Shepherd Dog, is a recognised breed in Australia, however, buyers must be aware, that ONLY dogs that fulfill the ANKC criteria & have been re-registered are the only pedigree/registered "White Swiss Shepherd Dogs" in Australia at this time. Please see ruling below.

• All White Swiss Shepherd Dogs imported into Australia MUST comply with ANKC Regulation Part 6 Clauses 3 and all its sub-clauses.

• If in the future people wish to have White German Shepherd Dogs recognised they will have to do so as a completely new separate breed with a NEW Name, and comply with ANKC Regulation Part 6 Clause 9.2 and all its sub – clauses.

• The only dogs born in Australia that can be registered as White Swiss Shepherd Dogs are those dogs resulting from the mating of two imported White Swiss Shepherd Dogs that have been registered with the ANKC on their Main Stud register, or further generations resulting from such matings.

Officially registered White Swiss Shepherd Dogs (Registered with the ANKC) can be shown at any ANKC sanctioned All Breeds show in Australia. I could show every weekend if I wanted to! So we get a lot more than just one show a year as was posted above.

The dogs Bilbo is referring to are NOT registered White Swiss Shepherd Dogs. The club that registers the "Australian White Shepherd, White German Shepherd" dogs & hosts those shows are not affiliated with the ANKC, nor are their shows.

It was hoped, that these dogs would be recognised & accepted in Australia as has been done in other countries, but unfortunately at this time, that has not happened. It is NOT due to politics that the dogs can only be shown once a year. Perhaps if things were acted on correctly years ago & didn't have people in there self destructing it from the inside out, and all the constant fighting & denigrating of those that chose to import & breed officially registered dogs, by owners of 'aussie whites', then it may be a different story.

Yes, the unofficially registered aussie dogs are great, I should know, I bred them first!  Arguing & ramming it down peoples throats in a public forum trying to justify their greatness doesn't reflect well on the breed & people involved sadly. I have been at complete peace removing myself from that & enjoying the ANKC White Swiss Shepherd Dogs.

I personally have offered my support to assist in getting the Australian dogs recognised, as I feel some are quality dogs well deserving of being included in the breed, only to have it rudely thrown back in my face by their 'recognition & publicity officer', wow, they're doing a great job eh? Let's hope with the recent 'change of guard', the club will move forward positively into the future. And again, regardless of the past treatment, I will help any way I can as I am truly passionate about the breed & want to see it succeed & thrive in Australia.

But, until any of this happens, the dogs are in all honestly, unregistered White Shepherds or White German Shepherds, which are being 'marketed' as White Swiss.

If the OP is interested in a registered White Swiss Shepherd Dog, I recommend they visit the Breeder Listing on Dogzonline breeder pages for the White Swiss Shepherd Dog where there is a listing of ANKC breeders.

If you are unsure about whether a breeder and/or their puppies are registered with the ANKC, call up your state affiliate (Dogs NSW, Dogs QLD etc) and they can check to see if the breeder/kennel name is registered with them.

Also, in Australia, the White Swiss Shepherd Dog is now stood 4-Square (not 3 point like a German Shepherd Dog.) It is important to note that these dogs are 2 different breeds, with different proportions, and, to avoid confusion, ANKC exhibitors of this breed do not stand their dogs like German Shepherds in the ring.

If you have any further questions you can email [email protected]

Edited June 8, 2011 by Chewbacca

[PetSitters]

[

I think you are missing the point Kateshep as your post was in response about a breeder advertising a showline litter from two VA Kkl1 SchH3 imported dogs and what JoeK said was the progeny from this calibre breeding is likely to have a better working ability than an "average" Australian bred working line dog? The litter was advertised as suitable for "anything" including SAR, protection etc and from what I can make of your posts, you are doubting this could be possible because they are showline dogs with the assumption that any run of the mill GSD could attain a SchH3 and receive a Kkl1 rating as the testing process to achieve this has little relevence with working ability or quality control in relation to the breed standards compliance, am I correct?

The answer "no" to my question you are saying that someone new to the breed who reads the breed standards of what a good GSD is supposed possess, are better off selecting a pup from ancestory that haven't been work tested whatsoever in the last 5 generations as the rated dogs in this example doesn't really reflect anything substantial in terms of working ability or the general character of the dog?

As I said previously still waiting on clarification re what Joek said. I specifically said titles aren't worthless, just no absolutes there and further evaluation may be necessary.

If someone wanted a working pup go to a breeder that has active success in producing dogs for performance roles.

Titles are the breeds testing criteria on a global status Kateshep where at least dogs who cannot pass the criteria are weeded out of the gene pools and without that, anything can be bred and active success in performance roles comes down to breeder interpretation or what they particularly like in a dog which is not always what a GSD is supposed to be. Most of the SA police dogs are showlines donated to the force, security dogs can be pets if you like so active success on that basis doesn't inspire any absolutes in greater proportion than titles from my perspective?

You mention that dogs can be trialled in prey drive only which is correct in saying the dog has not been subject to pressure for determination of courage I agree, but having said that, dogs that react in defense aggression from nerve weakness often mistaken for courage are too low in reative thresholds to pass a companion animal test (BH) is not an ideal GSD temperament either, in fact it's actually faulty but there are plenty of working line GSD's like this being reproduced and shouldn't be if the testing regime was mandatory for registered breedings. In my opinion choosing a pup from parents and ancesctors that are titled provides the best opportunity to obtain a dog free of the character traits that otherwise slip through the net creating weak nerves,fear biters and low drives etc in the progeny of dogs bred in a non tested regime.

[kateshep]

Titles are the breeds testing criteria on a global status Kateshep where at least dogs who cannot pass the criteria are weeded out of the gene pools and without that, anything can be bred and active success in performance roles comes down to breeder interpretation or what they particularly like in a dog which is not always what a GSD is supposed to be. Most of the SA police dogs are showlines donated to the force, security dogs can be pets if you like so active success on that basis doesn't inspire any absolutes in greater proportion than titles from my perspective?

You mention that dogs can be trialled in prey drive only which is correct in saying the dog has not been subject to pressure for determination of courage I agree, but having said that, dogs that react in defense aggression from nerve weakness often mistaken for courage are too low in reative thresholds to pass a companion animal test (BH) is not an ideal GSD temperament either, in fact it's actually faulty but there are plenty of working line GSD's like this being reproduced and shouldn't be if the testing regime was mandatory for registered breedings. In my opinion choosing a pup from parents and ancesctors that are titled provides the best opportunity to obtain a dog free of the character traits that otherwise slip through the net creating weak nerves,fear biters and low drives etc in the progeny of dogs bred in a non tested regime.

I'd rather get a puppy from titled parents than non titled parents does that clear it up ? Ideally I'd still want to see them for myself that they had the temperament I want.

Active success in performance roles. Get a puppy from parents who are doing what you want your puppy for or have a high success producing dogs in that department, and get knowledgeable through training experience so you have more of an idea of what traits you are looking for.

also for further clarification here I said:

Titles or no titles it is up to the buy/breeder to get educated about working temperament and select what traits they want, looking at the qualities in the dogs not just assuming it must be there because they have a few letters behind their name. Not that titles are worthless and don't indicate anything just that they don't guarantee.

[Kinkdogg]

Macklin Shepherds from Heywood Victoria is where we picked up our Ruskee. They have a good website too.

[toy dog]

Here is a video that shows the change in the GSD over the last 50 years or so, both in Germany and in the US/Europe/UK.

http://wn.com/History_of_the_change_in_the_german_shepherd_over_the_years

It might help you define in your own mind what it is you want to avoid and what you want to find.

For example it shows the roached back that looks like the dog had a spinal injury. Hips that are about half the height off the ground that any normal dogs hips would be. Hocks that wobble,look loose and often are so dropped they are touching the ground. almost uncontrollable looking gait and the impression the dogs is about to fall down or loose it balance.

Good video which shows the extreme appearence and locomotion found in the show dogs, that you may want to avoid in a dog that is to have an active life and be a companion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_z3fgk9bQw&feature=player_embedded

just like to say that i inherited KCC books from my auntie who bred pekes from 1960 - 1980 so i was looking at this lovely breed from the 1960's and i've noticed a big change in their backs (banana not level anymore) that started when the german lines came through in the early 80's maybe.

how can the people who are showing those dogs in the vids not notice how their dogs are moving, they look to me they are deformed and its pretty hard to win an argument with someone who claims that showing dogs are cruel when you witness things like this. I believe in my opinion that is just cruel and even crueller to have judges who award dogs like this when really they should be taken out of the ring. i've been showing dogs since 1986 and i've witnessed some judges over the years stating "no award" and then being questioned and stating that the dog was either unfit or had patella lux. there was a lady that i knew that is not around now who tried to sway the judge by commenting on the judges atire. She got ordered out of the ring too.

i just think it is a shame about this breed. I viewed macklin GSD and they have level backs although some aren't stacked like a show GSD, I also viewed the first video and some American GSD's legs were splayed right out (leg closest to the camera) in a very unnatural stack.

ETA: almost forgot, spoken to a few people with GSD and mentioned banana backs and what do they think and one claimed that they need to have those kind of backs I didn't really understand the reasoning something to do with the drive i mean really you don't have to be just a GSD person to know that there is something not quite right watching this breed from 50 years ago to now.

Edited June 28, 2011 by toy dog

[Scales of Justice]

shortstep, on 05 June 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

Here is a video that shows the change in the GSD over the last 50 years or so, both in Germany and in the US/Europe/UK. etc ...

Re Shortstep's video clip:

That video clip is not even a clip of Australian GSDs. I find it irritating that an isolated example such as appears in that video insinuates that that is how GSDs in Australia move today (changes in the last 50 years).

I'm sure you can find very poor examples of movement in any breed. The majority of Australian breeders have sound moving dogs.

I've seen many breeds in the show ring moving with incorrect features of movement so to focus in on that video is a misrepresentation of the true picture of the breed in Australia.

The person who started this thread wanted recommendations relevant to Australia. I realise toydog was trying to raise the point that one should avoid poor movement but there is a certain insinuation that is implied with the posting of that video.

My advice to the original poster is that they should visit many kennels and view what is available in Australia and make up their own mind when they purchase. They may be pleasantly surprised.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Scales of Justice

[toy dog]

shortstep, on 05 June 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

Here is a video that shows the change in the GSD over the last 50 years or so, both in Germany and in the US/Europe/UK. etc ...

Re Shortstep's video clip:

That video clip is not even a clip of Australian GSDs. I find it irritating that an isolated example such as appears in that video insinuates that that is how GSDs in Australia move today (changes in the last 50 years).

I'm sure you can find very poor examples of movement in any breed. The majority of Australian breeders have sound moving dogs.

I've seen many breeds in the show ring moving with incorrect features of movement so to focus in on that video is a misrepresentation of the true picture of the breed in Australia.

The person who started this thread wanted recommendations relevant to Australia. I realise toydog was trying to raise the point that one should avoid poor movement but there is a certain insinuation that is implied with the posting of that video.

My advice to the original poster is that they should visit many kennels and view what is available in Australia and make up their own mind when they purchase. They may be pleasantly surprised.

good points. Judging by the green floor i'd say it would be either at Crufts or at Westminster. yes there is incorrect movement in many breeds for instance, i've seen crippled dogs get BIG then go on to win BIS of another breed we wont' mention here and all because its owners were judges. Judges doing favours for other judges which is shameful. Observers saw all this just pet owners not involved in showing kept asking why was the "crippled" dogs winning all the time and they moved very badly, does nothing to promote our sport in a positive light. This breed also took a downward spiral as it put off many new comers when they'd constantly lose and not only newbies.

sorry might be offtopic

[Nekhbet]

because GSD threads get 1) boring and 2) overthought.

This is what Von Stephanitz, the creator of the GSD consider to the the ideal shepherd in his eyes.

As for straight back etc it all comes down to personal preference. Considering the GSD has now been bred into every conceivable shape, size, colour, temperament and degree of originality, find someone that suits your ideals, buy a pup and call it what you will.

It's the most bastardised breed on the face of the planet.

[gwenneth1]

because GSD threads get 1) boring and 2) overthought.

This is what Von Stephanitz, the creator of the GSD consider to the the ideal shepherd in his eyes.

As for straight back etc it all comes down to personal preference. Considering the GSD has now been bred into every conceivable shape, size, colour, temperament and degree of originality, find someone that suits your ideals, buy a pup and call it what you will.

It's the most bastardised breed on the face of the planet.

Summed up nicely

[PetSitters]

because GSD threads get 1) boring and 2) overthought.

This is what Von Stephanitz, the creator of the GSD consider to the the ideal shepherd in his eyes.

As for straight back etc it all comes down to personal preference. Considering the GSD has now been bred into every conceivable shape, size, colour, temperament and degree of originality, find someone that suits your ideals, buy a pup and call it what you will.

It's the most bastardised breed on the face of the planet.

Here is my working line dog, he has more the original looks

[gwenneth1]

Looks like a nice working dog Petsitters. What's temp/working drive like? (as far as obedience/agility would go). (I like blacks and sables): I've seen a few nice dogs from kennels, can't remember them all because this was sticky beaking on the net (so this is based on looks only, obviously temp/working ability), but I do remember: Macklin (love her dogs); Beychief;Vonchienloup;Gipfel (fair few in stacked position);AWSDT kennels and there's Eishund -(white swiss shepherd-still trying to work out white gsd/white swiss) . Some dogs on the sites I like better than others, personal preference.I've seen some black GSD working lines but I truly can't remember the names (should have added to favourites i guess..)

I again, do think Nekhbet's post says it all neatly.

[PetSitters]

Looks like a nice working dog Petsitters. What's temp/working drive like? (as far as obedience/agility would go). (I like blacks and sables): I've seen a few nice dogs from kennels, can't remember them all because this was sticky beaking on the net (so this is based on looks only, obviously temp/working ability), but I do remember: Macklin (love her dogs); Beychief;Vonchienloup;Gipfel (fair few in stacked position);AWSDT kennels and there's Eishund -(white swiss shepherd-still trying to work out white gsd/white swiss) . Some dogs on the sites I like better than others, personal preference.I've seen some black GSD working lines but I truly can't remember the names (should have added to favourites i guess..)

I again, do think Nekhbet's post says it all neatly.

My boy is a full working line dog of Vonforell/Yultzen lines, grandson and line bred on Fax vom Grenzganger. Fax was one of the highest rated sporting/working GSD's ever imported to Australia producing many excellent sporting and police/service dogs. Mine is very close to what the breed standards of a GSD determines and we are very happy with him to date. He's quite aloof, confident with good handler focus and easy to train in drive, but not the slightest bit reactive, no DA or HA whatsoever, calm in a passive environment and not fearful in strange surrounds. He's lively, rather dominant and wants to play "all day" if you are up for it, but is also a nice affectionate pet who can switch off and relax if need be.

I don't think Maklin GSD's are renouned working lines, Beychief breed some full working lines and working/show mixes, Vonchienloup are generally working lines. Mindfreak Kennels who bred our boy, Vonforell, Voncheinloup, Yultzen, Vontama, Raennik are some of the kennels who concentrate on working drives and quite often produce all black dogs like ours.

Edited July 2, 2011 by PetSitters

[wolfgirl]

Macklin have Vonforell in their lines also

[PetSitters]

Macklin have Vonforell in their lines also

Yes, I have seen some Vonforell dogs in their pedigrees and thought perhaps some were English lines, quite a few prefixes in the Macklin lines I hadn't heard of before? There is a breeder in rural SA that also has some of the Macklin type lines and produces a lot of pure blacks. I don't know of their actual working ability but I have always heard that temperament stability in the these lines are exceptionally good