Puppy Plan Panned In Ballan

[toy dog]

Inbreeding comes into it because according to you, the only source of puppies should be registered breeders.

A home that wants a puppy of the breed I am referring to would be well advised to steer clear of registered dogs of this breed because of the issues outlined above. The breed is in its current state due to ANKC Rules and Regulations.

Why should a member of the public only have access to ANKC registered dogs of this breed, when a healthier individual can only be bred out of ANKC Registered Breeder provisions.

oh okay, i hope you don't mind, i was curious as to the breed you keep referring to, i took the liberty to view your homepage, very beautiful dogs you have there. i understand what you say above is what your breed is faced with, with respect its not the case for every breed of dog though certainly not in ours anyway.

[BJean]

Inbreeding comes into it because according to you, the only source of puppies should be registered breeders.

A home that wants a puppy of the breed I am referring to would be well advised to steer clear of registered dogs of this breed because of the issues outlined above. The breed is in its current state due to ANKC Rules and Regulations.

Why should a member of the public only have access to ANKC registered dogs of this breed, when a healthier individual can only be bred out of ANKC Registered Breeder provisions.

oh okay, i hope you don't mind, i was curious as to the breed you keep referring to, i took the liberty to view your homepage, very beautiful dogs you have there. i understand what you say above is what your breed is faced with, with respect its not the case for every breed of dog though certainly not in ours anyway.

Yes I know, but I am always incredibly biased and self-centered around my breeds

The ANKC's Kangal Dog is in dire straits, and I have no idea what kind of future breeding plans other Kangal Dog registered breeders have or how they can even plan???

In any case, the ANKC have shelved Kangal Dog into the too hard basket: will or wont they re amalgamate Anatolian Shepherd with Kangal, are Kangal and Anatolian separate breeds blah blah

The reality is because the Kangal are a rare breed, there is no pressure for the ANKC to do anything.

And perhaps some Kangal breeders also have their head in the sand and are waiting for neverland from Turkiye which will never come.

Fortunately I also breed Anatolian, so ANKC's lack of action with Kangal doesn't ultimately affect me.

Edited June 5, 2011 by lilli

[Steve]

just having a big think about what you've been saying to me and why all the negativity about our controlling bodies and registered breeders? VCA are trying their best and trying to give what the majority of members want to see, its hard to please everyone, how many members have we got, 20,000 in this state?

We aren't a dying breed if we have ethical dedicated breeders that are here for the long haul, don't you agree? as i say in my own breed, we really work hard to foster the newies and help them. there's alot of other breed clubs like this in Victoria too we aren't the only ones. As a result there are many new people breeding dedicated to our breed up and coming. the oldies have an input into that.

we aren't too worried about if our breed is popular or not, there is always people who want a pedigree dog over a cross breed and we are never worried about competition. what im concerned about is the welfare of those dogs on the farms and how cruel that industry is. I always fight to bring an end to factory farming of a companion animals and i hope i see the day when all this comes to an end.

i just read about the "gardener" coming back again and spouting off about puppy farms and petshops and how good they are and how bad registered ANKC breeders in the kennel clubs are. He is up to his old tricks and it looks like he can't be shut up he is going to bag all "kennel club" breeders radio interview i believe this is the person who started all this crap in the first place and the ones that have suffered the most through his promotions has been the dogs themselves not the kennel club members as he puts it.

if you paint a negative picture for all to follow pretty soon we are all on a downward sprawl, we need to be more positive and it reflects and has an impact i've been victim to this a few pointed this out, so i refrained and it really has worked for us into the future. The club has gone from strength to strength because of a few dedicated breeders. We are here and we are not going anywhere!

media has a way of focussing on the negatives too. but really the public should make their own minds up about the truth, people these days are easily led by media when we all know it should all be taken with a grain of salt. the people who report are not as experienced as the people who has a lifestyle and hobby of dogs.

No one needs to paint a negative picture the stats are there for all to see - 4800 registered breeders with the ANKC australia wide of them under 1000 would be in Victoria .Thats a massive drop and if its made much harder with more crap regs and codes more and more will walk away. That give large volume breeders a bigger slice of the market.

Of course the gardener is going to bag all kennel club breeders and he thinks - along with stacks of others that by stopping us he is doing what is best for the dogs.We are a minority group much hated in several areas and seen to be cruel but part of the plan is to get us working against them while they work against us - and its working.

[raz]

In any case, the ANKC have shelved Kangal Dog into the too hard basket: will or wont they re amalgamate Anatolian Shepherd with Kangal, are Kangal and Anatolian separate breeds blah blah

Sorry for a sec and I asked you once before but cant remember the answer - what's the difference between the Kangal and Anatolian, Lilli?

Edited June 5, 2011 by raz

[Steve]

just having a big think about what you've been saying to me and why all the negativity about our controlling bodies and registered breeders? VCA are trying their best and trying to give what the majority of members want to see, its hard to please everyone, how many members have we got, 20,000 in this state?

We aren't a dying breed if we have ethical dedicated breeders that are here for the long haul, don't you agree? as i say in my own breed, we really work hard to foster the newies and help them. there's alot of other breed clubs like this in Victoria too we aren't the only ones. As a result there are many new people breeding dedicated to our breed up and coming. the oldies have an input into that.

we aren't too worried about if our breed is popular or not, there is always people who want a pedigree dog over a cross breed and we are never worried about competition. what im concerned about is the welfare of those dogs on the farms and how cruel that industry is. I always fight to bring an end to factory farming of a companion animals and i hope i see the day when all this comes to an end.

i just read about the "gardener" coming back again and spouting off about puppy farms and petshops and how good they are and how bad registered ANKC breeders in the kennel clubs are. He is up to his old tricks and it looks like he can't be shut up he is going to bag all "kennel club" breeders radio interview i believe this is the person who started all this crap in the first place and the ones that have suffered the most through his promotions has been the dogs themselves not the kennel club members as he puts it.

if you paint a negative picture for all to follow pretty soon we are all on a downward sprawl, we need to be more positive and it reflects and has an impact i've been victim to this a few pointed this out, so i refrained and it really has worked for us into the future. The club has gone from strength to strength because of a few dedicated breeders. We are here and we are not going anywhere!

media has a way of focussing on the negatives too. but really the public should make their own minds up about the truth, people these days are easily led by media when we all know it should all be taken with a grain of salt. the people who report are not as experienced as the people who has a lifestyle and hobby of dogs.

There are $33,000 members Australia wide of them only 4 and a half thousand are breeders that means there are about 1000 breeders in Victoria far cry from 20,000 isnt it? Numbers of breeders and dogs bred go way down every year.

In your breed in 2010 throughout Austrlia only 1468 registered chi puppies [690 short haired - 778 long haired] were born of them approx 145 would have been selected for breeding and of them some would decide not to breed them and some would be eliminated due to health issues - high patella scores or conformation faults etc. So what? That leaves about 100 last year Australia wide which may be used for breeding? Given that 70 per cent of breeders only have one litter per year and the others contribute more to the gene pool many of these 100 which might be used for breeding would be closely related to each other. In 1986 there were 4037 chi's born australia wide and most of them could have been used for breeding.

if you are really here and not going anywhere and if you really do care for the betterment of the breed you will breed more and allow more to go out for breeding.Breeding more might mean you will ned a DA - God help you.

[BJean]

In any case, the ANKC have shelved Kangal Dog into the too hard basket: will or wont they re amalgamate Anatolian Shepherd with Kangal, are Kangal and Anatolian separate breeds blah blah

Sorry for a sec and I asked you once before but cant remember the answer - what's the difference between the Kangal and Anatolian, Lilli?

In Australia, the only difference between an Anatolian and Kangal Dog, is the name. You can't look at a dog that might be an Anatolian or Kangal, and determine from its appearance what it's registered breed actually is.

Kangal dog has their own asphyxiating gene pool of registered Kangal Dogs, and Anatolians have their more diverse gene pool with access to registered Anatolians overseas and also dogs within Turkiye.

http://www.takasvolkodav.com/page2.asp

Edited June 6, 2011 by lilli

[toy dog]

if you are really here and not going anywhere and if you really do care for the betterment of the breed you will breed more and allow more to go out for breeding.Breeding more might mean you will ned a DA - God help you.

DA is short for what? a permit? already have one of those i think in our breed 10 fertile bitches is more than enough to sustain a bloodline. i don't need to breed up more as i believe in giving individual attention to a few and my lifestyle doesn't really support having large numbers.

i don't need to do this but there are alot of breeders that do and share their bloodlines, some don't (1 or 2) and refuse to give up total ownership on breeding/show dogs when the co-owner goes to breed they don't allow it with their precious bloodlines. this helps no one in my opinion. Certainly doesn't help the breed really.

[toy dog]

Inbreeding comes into it because according to you, the only source of puppies should be registered breeders.

A home that wants a puppy of the breed I am referring to would be well advised to steer clear of registered dogs of this breed because of the issues outlined above. The breed is in its current state due to ANKC Rules and Regulations.

Why should a member of the public only have access to ANKC registered dogs of this breed, when a healthier individual can only be bred out of ANKC Registered Breeder provisions.

oh okay, i hope you don't mind, i was curious as to the breed you keep referring to, i took the liberty to view your homepage, very beautiful dogs you have there. i understand what you say above is what your breed is faced with, with respect its not the case for every breed of dog though certainly not in ours anyway.

Yes I know, but I am always incredibly biased and self-centered around my breeds

The ANKC's Kangal Dog is in dire straits, and I have no idea what kind of future breeding plans other Kangal Dog registered breeders have or how they can even plan???

In any case, the ANKC have shelved Kangal Dog into the too hard basket: will or wont they re amalgamate Anatolian Shepherd with Kangal, are Kangal and Anatolian separate breeds blah blah

The reality is because the Kangal are a rare breed, there is no pressure for the ANKC to do anything.

And perhaps some Kangal breeders also have their head in the sand and are waiting for neverland from Turkiye which will never come.

Fortunately I also breed Anatolian, so ANKC's lack of action with Kangal doesn't ultimately affect me.

How many breeders of Kangal dogs are there in Australia? They are very exotic looking i rather like them thats a bit of shame i am sorry to hear this.

[toy dog]

Given that 70 per cent of breeders only have one litter per year and the others contribute more to the gene pool many of these 100 which might be used for breeding would be closely related to each other.

nope there is enough diversity still out there to not closely breed, i make it my business to have something different to others. I have a very old bloodline that is no longer here though, its about 30 years old.

Edited June 6, 2011 by toy dog

[Steve]

Given that 70 per cent of breeders only have one litter per year and the others contribute more to the gene pool many of these 100 which might be used for breeding would be closely related to each other.

nope there is enough diversity still out there to not closely breed, i make it my business to have something different to others. I have a very old bloodline that is no longer here though, its about 30 years old.

So if things continue as they have been - how long do you think it will be before your breed has a problem. How many dogs each year need to go into the gene pool in order to prevent problems?

[toy dog]

We are a minority group much hated in several areas and seen to be cruel but part of the plan is to get us working against them while they work against us - and its working.

i believe that its not really "us" (i assume meaning reg breeders) against "them" who do you mean is getting us to work against each other? the govt or the RSPCA? i have stated what i have said on here from being an animal lover and pet owner first then a registered breeder. I think really most registered breeders don't want to be involved in this big debate and campaign against puppy farmers that the RSPCA have launched. I choose to support this campaign so i can help educate the buying public on where to find puppies rather than buying from a petshop or puppy farm online.

as i have said numerous times on here and probably people are getting sick of it too, is that we were there keeping an eye on these puppy farms in a certain area and wanting help to get something done about them way before the animal libs took it all on and ran with it and then got RSPCA involved which i believe isn't a bad thing. at least they are informing the public on the right ways to go about buying a puppy.

also i meant when i said you are very negative about registered breeders not about statistics but just generally with negative comments. Wouldn't it be better to promote all of us in a positive light so the public can make a clearer decision of where to go to get a puppy? JMHO anyway.

in your statistics about chihuahuas you forgot about numbers in litters also crippling numbers being reg and bred, in our breed many of them only have 1 or 2 pups in a litter, its not a breed for beginners as many problems around too tiny a pups do arise which also decreases numbers in our breed as well. All i can vouch for is the last 30 years of breeders not doing a bad job in our breed but i cannot say for the next 30 years how that is going to pan out but hopefully thinking positively we will be okay if we dont' all fall victim to the overuse of the most popular stud syndrome.