Diva Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I've heard of this operation recommended for pups with no clinical signs, from breeds with a very low incidence of HD, and which a second opinion from another vet revealed to have completely normal hips, so I'm pretty sceptical about it. I'd also recommend a second opinion from a specialist or at least more experienced vet at a different surgery. And if the hips are assessed as normal by the second vet, I'd drop the first vet as quickly as I could, as a scammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If your clients go to Berwick vet hosspital tell them to find a new vet. Pup doesnt need surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) If your clients go to Berwick vet hosspital ... No they don't. Edited May 31, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If you did a search on this, you would have come across my topic as I got recommended the same thing. Pup showing no signs of any lameness and comes from a breed which isn't usually know for HD, plus of course parents/grandparents etc all being hip scored. I definately recommend Dr. Wing Tip Wong who is an orthopedic specialist and operates down in Werribee. He found nothing wrong with her or her xrays even though my now former vet said she would have severe HD by the time she is 12 months......she is now 10 months nearly 11 and no issues, can't wait till I get her hip scored as I will be taken the xrays in and giving him a what for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetSitters Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I definitely wouldn't accept that diagnosis and treatment recommendation from a general vet and would seek a specialist opinion. I believe there is also a skill required to lay the dog out to obtain a correct hip xray image, definitely a job for complete competence in this area I think. Edited May 31, 2011 by PetSitters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 OMG - 16 Weeks !!!!!!!! @#%%^&*&^%^$$#$$%@#$%%^$(&^%*&*&%^%#&$@(&%*^%$@ Please tell them to contact their breeder for advice - thats what we are here for . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I am rather concerned about this claim. HD as I am aware of in the breed generally is not THAT huge. I know of some dogs from some lines who have recently shown some considerable higher than average scores. At last count: The BC breed average was around a total score of 8. Of course that is not going to reflect BYB or probably even an accurate score for the whole of the breed. Many dogs I know are sporting below the breed average. I know even 0:0 hips can produce HD. There are also links to environment. I know there is a link to genetic predisposition. Unless the dog is showing major signs for limping or rolling hips or similar, then I am concerned a vet is wanting to not only do very invasive, but expensive surgery on a 16 week old puppy. I definitely would be seeking a second or third opinion from an expert. I had one so called expert here say my 8 month old bitch at OCD in the shoulder (but not showing clinical signs). I had her re-evaluated by two other specialists who thankfully found nothing wrong with her. That bitch is now 4 years old, had two litters and is still fine. No OCD. I later found out the so called vet specialist who originally said she had OCD LOVES making the claim on pedigree dogs and trying to get people to go for surgery. I also found out, that a good percentage also sought a 2nd opinion from other vet specialists who also did not find a problem with the animals. I have forwarded this link to a couple of other BC people.. So hopefully they will come in and add their experience/knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninahartland Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 This rings alarm bells for me!!!!!!!!! When my gsd was about 8/9 months he was at the vets having hip xrays (vet thought something wasnt quite right so advised xrays ) Rang me while he was still under and advised I should pts then and there as his hips were so bad he wouldnt be able to walk in another 12 months. Of course I was devastated, rang his breeder who sent xrays to a specialist in Sydney. He will be 5 this month and shows no sign of hd at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I'd rather be looking into the Stem Cell Therapy thing. From what I understand its cheaper, and works pretty well. I groom a Goldie who had it done and she has no problems as an older dog. The stem cells won't help here. They repair the arthritis associated with HD. Won't change the way the bones are formed. Fingers crossed they get a specialist's opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shells Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I wonder if xraying at spay/neuter for these and other breeds known for HD issues is becoming a standard practice for some clinics? I know a clinic in Canberra where if you walk in with a Lab puppy for desexing you get a side dish of JPS surgery. This happend to 2 of my friends who both obviously went through with it because they thought they were doing the best thing by their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I know a clinic in Canberra where if you walk in with a Lab puppy for desexing you get a side dish of JPS surgery. This happend to 2 of my friends who both obviously went through with it because they thought they were doing the best thing by their dogs. I could probably guess the clinic, they are notorious for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Out of curiosity what is the danger of doing JPS to a pup who doesn't need it? Aside from the unnecessary GA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I know a clinic in Canberra where if you walk in with a Lab puppy for desexing you get a side dish of JPS surgery. This happend to 2 of my friends who both obviously went through with it because they thought they were doing the best thing by their dogs. I could probably guess the clinic, they are notorious for it. Me too :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 It's a Border Collie. When he went in for neutering, the Vet suggested xrays as "a lot of BC's have HD problems". (The puppy was showing no signs of lameness.) Xrays are taken and the Vet's opinion is that the gap where the thigh bone goes to the hip (sorry - forgotten technical bone terms) and rests in the socket is too big. First this vet knows nothing about Border Collies if they think that "a lot of BC's have HD problems" or more likely, they are telling outright lies to get the owners to part with more $$$$$$$$$$$$. HD can and does occur occasionallyin Border Collies but among those from registered breeders it is actually quite rare. Lots of Borders have 0:0 hip scores and with a breed average around 8 total,it is hardly a major problem in the breed. Sadly it does seem to be more common in unregistered puppies from BYBs and puppy farmers who don't score their breeding stock but among registered breeders the compliance rate for hip scoring is probably around 50% with most being a formality to have the scoring done before breeding. Sometimes the scores are a little higher than anticpated but we are talking totals of about 16, which is still lower than the breed average for a lot of breeds. Next, the vet took x-rays and gave their opinion. This alone should make them run a mile. The only way to determine if a puppy that age has bad hips is for a specialist to penn-hip score them and decide if there is likely to be a problem. Normal vets wouldn't have a clue what a hip x-ray should look like at that age because it is not a normal age to do a hip x-ray. If the puppy is from hip scored parents the owners should have copies of the certificates. If not or they really think the puppy has a problem they need to find a specialist that does penn-hip and take it from there. Oh, and find another vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If you did a search on this, you would have come across my topic as I got recommended the same thing. Pup showing no signs of any lameness and comes from a breed which isn't usually know for HD, plus of course parents/grandparents etc all being hip scored. I definately recommend Dr. Wing Tip Wong who is an orthopedic specialist and operates down in Werribee. He found nothing wrong with her or her xrays even though my now former vet said she would have severe HD by the time she is 12 months......she is now 10 months nearly 11 and no issues, can't wait till I get her hip scored as I will be taken the xrays in and giving him a what for sounds like us too. at 12 weeks we were told our pup who had no lameness had HD, xrays recommended and told that he would be very lame by 12 months. HD is virtually unheard of in Borzoi and i got a 2nd and 3rd opinion which came back with no problems. he is almost 2 and definitely has no problem zooming around or walking. I even got my new vet to check him recently. All good of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Staranais has already listed the indications for justified JPS surgery, so I don't think it is fair to say that all vets performing this procedure should be shamed, as the procedure can help pups with severe, early onset HD. I agree it is unprofessional or misguided at best to perform this surgery on a pup not yet showing clinical signs and without a specialist opinion. In this case it does not sound appropriate - pup not showing clinical signs - x rays are ambiguous and not read by specialist, additionally the positioning of the pelvis during the xrays can greatly affect the reading. - Border Collies are not generally one of the first breeds that pops to mind when I think of HD I would advise your client to seek a second opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If after a second opinion I can recommend Dr Charles Kuntz at Southpaws... a few clients we referred he recommended against surgery which I think is a sign of a good surgeon! I wouldn't go through a surgery like that without seeking a specialist advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 preventative surgeries seem to be a fashion now ... and yet they still wont guarentee them :rolleyes: I agree with everyone else, if the dog has no lameness why was it even x-rayed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I agree with everyone else, if the dog has no lameness why was it even x-rayed? Because they were worried about their puppy? In my situation, she was under anyway for a minor hernia fix so after being freaked out by the vet saying what he did, I elected to get them at the same time. I am glad I did as it certainly laid to rest any concerns once I had been to the specialist. I am still not 100% sure why he said to do the surgery, as he knew she was my future (hopeful) foundation bitch and sporting dog. Surely he would have made more money out of me keeping me on as a client? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I agree with everyone else, if the dog has no lameness why was it even x-rayed? Because they were worried about their puppy? As I understand it, the pup went in for neutering and the Vet suggested because of the pup's breed and rate of HD (I didn't think BC's were highly represented in that area either) it would be worth doing hip xrays. Then the results came through and the Vet suggested surgery to my clients. They were surprised. They had booked in for training and contacted me to defer it and that's how come I got to know about this. I have suggested to my clients a 2nd opinion by a specialist Vet and to also speak with their breeder. They are aware that I am querying on their behalf here. I was concerned about the surgery under the circumstances but was not confident that my concerns were valid and so I suggested that with their permission, I enquire here. Edited May 31, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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