Ludwig Orders Inquiry Into Indon Cattle

[raz]

promoting starving in a thread about preventing cruelty? That's pretty funny, tracie, and pretty typical of the usual xenophobic islam bashing comments you come out with whenever you pop up, but I atleast agree with your comment that those who didnt take action earlier need to be held accountable.

What i find quite interesting that people are making spiteful comments about the Indonesians and what they do to animals but it wasnt that long ago that feral goat racing in Australia was regarded as great entertainment.

Edited June 10, 2011 by raz

[Robbi]

Saturday 18th of June is the National Day of Action for Animals Australia Live Export campaign, large protests are being planned for each capital city and many regional centres.

Adelaide has a protest planned for 12 noon at parlimant house on North Terrace.

[Amanda Houstoun]

Amanda, here is an article to help you see how animal rights people view pet ownership in the same boat (unintended pun) as export cattle.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Weve-got-to-stop-treating-animals-like-animals/

Hi KatrinaM, thanks for the article. I stand by my decision to support the ban of export to Indonesia. I strongly felt it must be stopped and added my voice to call for this. It does not mean that I will support every campaign animal welfare groups run. This appears to be an assumption you are making, though forgive me if I am wrong.

In the UK I worked in breed rescue, yet I exhibited my own dogs. Many people made their comments known that I should be doing one or the other but not both. Why not, I enjoy dogs? The point I am trying to make is that living with dogs is a huge pleasure in my life, I care about all animal welfare. If I see cruelty I will do what I can to end it. What was happening in Indonesia was cruel, and there was enough evidence to back up the reports made. It was not just happening in one or two abbotoirs (sp), it was widespread. I added my voice to add weight to a campaign I believe to be right and just. I do not choose to sit on one side of the fence or the other on a permanent basis, I don't see things as a 'them and us' situation.

[greytpets]

I agree that because I support a ban on live export that it doesn't mean I buy into the whole PETA line. I don't support a lot of their agenda but this is something I do believe should be stopped. Does anyone know where the rally is planned for in Vic?

[Ripley]

Details here, greytpets.

I'll be going to the Sydney one with a number of friends

http://www.nationaldayofactiontoendliveexport.com.au/

[GeckoTree]

So nobody but Indonesia buys Aus beef? Maybe Aus will pick up a better paid market with a bit better animal slaughter practice somewhere else.

Far out I dont know how an Indon could afford a steak anyway If they are paying as much as us suckers do.

[felix]

It is easy and logical thing supporting ban on live export. Too easy I think.

However, I am yet to hear any meaningful explanation what is this country going to do with all this animals right now. There are thousands of animals waiting for transport at this very moment. Their producers don't want them back. They can't be exported. So, what will happen with them? If they go into local production and local markets that could permanently damage the industry which has so far been essential for this country's wellbeing.

Also, what is banning of live export going to do to the industry as a whole? There is no market for processed meat, especially not in countries that are traditional buyers of Australian meat. Do you all suggest that Australia should simply stop breeding animals for meat?

[Inevitablue]

No, people are saying that they should stop being exported live, and be processed here and sold as a packaged product.

[Bullbreedlover]

It is easy and logical thing supporting ban on live export. Too easy I think.

However, I am yet to hear any meaningful explanation what is this country going to do with all this animals right now. There are thousands of animals waiting for transport at this very moment. Their producers don't want them back. They can't be exported. So, what will happen with them? If they go into local production and local markets that could permanently damage the industry which has so far been essential for this country's wellbeing.

Also, what is banning of live export going to do to the industry as a whole? There is no market for processed meat, especially not in countries that are traditional buyers of Australian meat. Do you all suggest that Australia should simply stop breeding animals for meat?

The processed meat industry in Australia is actually alive and kicking.

The abattoir I work for( a Qld export award winner) exports meat to 35 Countries around the world.

The animals that are not being exported will be transported to abattoirs to be killed. The meat processed will be sold in Australia and the processed meat will either be chilled or frozen and exported. The market will experience a glut for the immediate future but this is expected to even out.

In the wake of the Japan earthquake where thousands of people lost their lives many abbatoir workers were worried about the drop in trade. But in the big picture there are millions of people out there in the world who eat beef. They will stil continue to eat beef. Australia supplies many Countries with processed beef, humanely killed. Why dont we keep it that way.

Please explain further your comments highlighted.

[felix]

No, people are saying that they should stop being exported live, and be processed here and sold as a packaged product.

Thanks for the response. Yes, that's what people think. But, as I said in my post there is no market for packaged product. At least not in those quantities. Indonesia can not and won't buy it. And the global markets for packaged meat are very limited.

[Bullbreedlover]

No, people are saying that they should stop being exported live, and be processed here and sold as a packaged product.

Thanks for the response. Yes, that's what people think. But, as I said in my post there is no market for packaged product. At least not in those quantities. Indonesia can not and won't buy it. And the global markets for packaged meat are very limited.

Please tell us how you arrived at your informed decision?

[felix]

It is easy and logical thing supporting ban on live export. Too easy I think.

However, I am yet to hear any meaningful explanation what is this country going to do with all this animals right now. There are thousands of animals waiting for transport at this very moment. Their producers don't want them back. They can't be exported. So, what will happen with them? If they go into local production and local markets that could permanently damage the industry which has so far been essential for this country's wellbeing.

Also, what is banning of live export going to do to the industry as a whole? There is no market for processed meat, especially not in countries that are traditional buyers of Australian meat. Do you all suggest that Australia should simply stop breeding animals for meat?

The processed meat industry in Australia is actually alive and kicking.

The abattoir I work for( a Qld export award winner) exports meat to 35 Countries around the world.

The animals that are not being exported will be transported to abattoirs to be killed. The meat processed will be sold in Australia and the processed meat will either be chilled or frozen and exported. The market will experience a glut for the immediate future but this is expected to even out.

In the wake of the Japan earthquake where thousands of people lost their lives many abbatoir workers were worried about the drop in trade. But in the big picture there are millions of people out there in the world who eat beef. They will stil continue to eat beef. Australia supplies many Countries with processed beef, humanely killed. Why dont we keep it that way.

Please explain further your comments highlighted.

As far as I know, Indonesia is buying about 75% of Australian beef. All other markets you are referring to are not nearly at the same magnitude.

There were few analyses in various media recently about the future of Australian beef production and impact this whole episode may have on it. To put it simply they were not good.

As for animals currently in the limbo, here in NT they don't know what to do with them because nobody wants them. Who is going to feed them, and what abattoirs are you talking about? There are none here. Who is going to pay for the transport?

Don't get me wrong, I am against cruelty to any living creature as anybody else. I just want to point there are no simple solutions as many people seem to believe. Like, just ban live export and everything is going to be fabulous.

[felix]

No, people are saying that they should stop being exported live, and be processed here and sold as a packaged product.

Thanks for the response. Yes, that's what people think. But, as I said in my post there is no market for packaged product. At least not in those quantities. Indonesia can not and won't buy it. And the global markets for packaged meat are very limited.

Please tell us how you arrived at your informed decision?

I just listened to several market analyses on the topic that took place in last week or so.

As for Indonesia, it is quite simple. Many places there have no refrigerating facilites, so frozen or packaged meat is impossible to be transported and stored.

[Bullbreedlover]

No, people are saying that they should stop being exported live, and be processed here and sold as a packaged product.

Thanks for the response. Yes, that's what people think. But, as I said in my post there is no market for packaged product. At least not in those quantities. Indonesia can not and won't buy it. And the global markets for packaged meat are very limited.

Please tell us how you arrived at your informed decision?

I just listened to several market analyses on the topic that took place in last week or so.

As for Indonesia, it is quite simple. Many places there have no refrigerating facilites, so frozen or packaged meat is impossible to be transported and stored.

So how do the Indonesian abattoirs sell their product once thay have killed it? How do they process it, concidering they have to bone it at least a day after they have killed it. Any refrigeration problems would mean that e coli is running rampant and they wouldnt be able to sell it anyway.

So in the last 3 years our work place has gone from exporting processed beef from 5 countries to 35 countries.

Nope, no market out there for processed beef killed humanely.

[felix]

That's all fine. You can challenge my information and opinion. I have no problem with that. Free country and all.

However, I would just like to point that nobody answered my original question about the immediate future of these animals and their producers. I must admit, I would be the most surprised if anybody did, because all of the federal and local politicians, representatives of the industry etc. seem to have no idea.

[Bullbreedlover]

It is easy and logical thing supporting ban on live export. Too easy I think.

However, I am yet to hear any meaningful explanation what is this country going to do with all this animals right now. There are thousands of animals waiting for transport at this very moment. Their producers don't want them back. They can't be exported. So, what will happen with them? If they go into local production and local markets that could permanently damage the industry which has so far been essential for this country's wellbeing.

Also, what is banning of live export going to do to the industry as a whole? There is no market for processed meat, especially not in countries that are traditional buyers of Australian meat. Do you all suggest that Australia should simply stop breeding animals for meat?

The processed meat industry in Australia is actually alive and kicking.

The abattoir I work for( a Qld export award winner) exports meat to 35 Countries around the world.

The animals that are not being exported will be transported to abattoirs to be killed. The meat processed will be sold in Australia and the processed meat will either be chilled or frozen and exported. The market will experience a glut for the immediate future but this is expected to even out.

In the wake of the Japan earthquake where thousands of people lost their lives many abbatoir workers were worried about the drop in trade. But in the big picture there are millions of people out there in the world who eat beef. They will stil continue to eat beef. Australia supplies many Countries with processed beef, humanely killed. Why dont we keep it that way.

Please explain further your comments highlighted.

As far as I know, Indonesia is buying about 75% of Australian beef. All other markets you are referring to are not nearly at the same magnitude.

There were few analyses in various media recently about the future of Australian beef production and impact this whole episode may have on it. To put it simply they were not good.

As for animals currently in the limbo, here in NT they don't know what to do with them because nobody wants them. Who is going to feed them, and what abattoirs are you talking about? There are none here. Who is going to pay for the transport?

Don't get me wrong, I am against cruelty to any living creature as anybody else. I just want to point there are no simple solutions as many people seem to believe. Like, just ban live export and everything is going to be fabulous.

Well no, its not 75% so you do need to revisit your info.

The other markets I refer to are certainly at the same magnitude. The Asian market is by far the biggest market that our company export to any way. And our company are the biggest exports of processed meat in Australia.

Of course there are no simple solutions. There are humane solutions though.

The cattle sellers knew exactly where their cattle were going to and the fate of them.

[Bullbreedlover]

That's all fine. You can challenge my information and opinion. I have no problem with that. Free country and all.

However, I would just like to point that nobody answered my original question about the immediate future of these animals and their producers. I must admit, I would be the most surprised if anybody did, because all of the federal and local politicians, representatives of the industry etc. seem to have no idea.

I have already answered the question about the fate of the animals. They will be sent to abattoirs and slaughtered. If they re start the abattoir in the NT then they will be transported there although that will take awhile. Otherwise they will be transported. They wont be left to starve. Australians wouldnt do that.

[felix]

That's all fine. You can challenge my information and opinion. I have no problem with that. Free country and all.

However, I would just like to point that nobody answered my original question about the immediate future of these animals and their producers. I must admit, I would be the most surprised if anybody did, because all of the federal and local politicians, representatives of the industry etc. seem to have no idea.

I have already answered the question about the fate of the animals. They will be sent to abattoirs and slaughtered. If they re start the abattoir in the NT then they will be transported there although that will take awhile. Otherwise they will be transported. They wont be left to starve. Australians wouldnt do that.

I honestly hope you are right. You certainly seem more informed than most of the local politicians here.

[traciemc]

promoting starving in a thread about preventing cruelty? That's pretty funny, tracie, and pretty typical of the usual xenophobic islam bashing comments you come out with whenever you pop up, but I atleast agree with your comment that those who didnt take action earlier need to be held accountable.

What i find quite interesting that people are making spiteful comments about the Indonesians and what they do to animals but it wasnt that long ago that feral goat racing in Australia was regarded as great entertainment.

Comparing the Indonesians to animals are you Raz? Even I didn't do that....And you can always be counted on to act as an apologist for whatever outrage is perpetrated upon the innocents, either animal or human, under the name of islam. I find it very strange that you are so vocal on a forum that is dedicated to animals, yet you seem to take a perverse delight in defending those who are cruel to them.

[raz]

How bizarre. Last time I checked, humans were still a part of the animal kingdom; I dont agree with or defend cruelty to any sentient being, that includes statements to let the Indonesians starve, or even better, take the asylum seekers back out into the ocean and drop a bomb on them which was the least intelligent thing I've ever seen on this forum. And obviously you've done the usual and just skimmed through an entire thread in order to make your snipes at Islamics. I have at no stage defended the cruelty but said I fully support retaining the Australian influence in Indonesia for the purposes of supervision, training, equipment and inspection to bring all abbatoirs up to world accepted standards. But that's too much, isnt it - you're a total xenophobe so you dont want money spent there at all. I dont know how on earth you think we can improve their standards if we're not spending money.

And look in your own backyard before you criticise people from other countries for animal cruelty. There's plenty of it here as well.