Ludwig Orders Inquiry Into Indon Cattle

[Amanda Houstoun]

I think we can agree with it's a shame it didn't happen 10 years ago.

[raz]

That's good because I'm certainly not going to agree with any other points you've made.

[KatrinaM]

Nobody has used religon as an excuse for cruelty, as I said before they are different issues that are being confused. Cattle producers did know that not all Indo meatworks were up to a standard we expect and they give money from every single beast they send over to go towards improving conditions. Conditions have improved in the larger places and in the majority of places.

Tell me what these alternitives are Amanda, I'm pretty keen to know as I am sure are thousands of other people who a total ban will ruin.

Do you not know the agenda or Animals Australia and PETA? Do you not understand what animal rights means? It means and end to mans use of animals and that includes pet ownership and it sure is on their agenda. There are far more animals treated cruely in the name of pet ownership than Indo cattle yet you wouldnt support a ban on pet ownership. I'm sure a pretty nasty documenty could be made using the same formula. I'm sure you treat animals very well as the majority of Indo meatworks but neither of these things are news worthy. What sells and raises donations is emotion, outrage and horror.

I wasnt having a personal dig at your family, unlike the one you had at mine and my friends, its just not my style. Watching a documentry and looking at the Animals Australia website is hardly unbiased reasearch. My kids are younger than your son and are exposed to the actual slaughter of our meat and the culling of feral animals and injured stock, we talk about ethics and how we treat animals and why it is nessecary to give meat livestock a "good life" or swiftly end the life of pest animals and the injured or diseased. They watch animal rights films as well. It is these things that I hope will give them a well rounded idea of all the viewpoints on the subject. I would like to think that anybody doing reasearch on any subject that was emotive would do so by excluding emotion and looking at all sides of the arguement.

The equiptment that was supplied works well in the meatworks where it is used properly, and much better than the previous method. Are there going to be better methods in the future? I hope so. Should those facilities identified be stopped until they pick up their game? I dont think you will find any arguement from producers there, but why should the facilities who are doing things right not use Australian cattle?

Argentina is a lot longer away and transport costs are higher but their cattle are cheaper. It wouldnt be very cool to have FMD on our doorstep because of a knee jerk reaction that saw cattle sourced from there.

[gwenneth1]

I personally don't feel equipment and training will make much difference without enforceable accountability and feel that will be nigh impossible in Indonesia if their history of atrocities/abuses against people that have occurred in East Timor and PNG (and by some accounts are continuing) with absolutely zip accountability for those responsible. I feel that 'mere' animals will not seriously warrant any real accountability at this point in time. Reports filtering through livestock sources have said that the up to 95% of abbattoirs in Indonesia have "....serious problems" which have been known about for a long time (One may interpret "serious problems" as they wish) despite ongoing training. The cattle industry is seriously angry with organisations involved in live export, that they have paid levies and fees too, which supposedly resolve welfare issues, training and so forth and avoid unmitigated disasters like the one that is occurring.

Unfortunately successive Australian Governments have proved to be be void of any intestinal fortitude whatsoever when it comes to Indonesia (for example Balibo 5).Over ten years of 'working with Indonesia is a long enough 'trial' for me to conclude that implementation and enforcement of regulations is simply not going to happen in the foreseeable future. I'm also not going to psycho analyse why some people have a predisposition towards inhumane acts towards something more vulnerable, but I do believe that those with such tendencies will not be 'educated or trained' out of that tendency without some incentive eg the threat that their source of livelihood will cease immediately. AGain a sincere 'policing' of this, I believe, will not transpire.

Australia does need to 'clean up its own backyard' regarding animal welfare issues, livestock intensive farming and it's 'processing plants' included. Cargills USA/Canada has used Dr Temple Grandin's model to minimise stressors and provide a relatively humane alternative from what I've seen and hopefully it will be in the best interest of plants for public relations sake if nothing else, to embrace such models. I feel the way forward to combat the anti-meat feeling slowly permeating potential buyers, is continually strive for such improvements for long term positive outcomes. Australia has more transparency than Indonesia, which is why local (too slowly) welfare issues are being addressed. We have a fierce Animal Welfare Officer at the local saleyards where cruelty is not tolerated, (along with addressing issues of transportation of vealers). I am not suggesting for a minute that all is peachy in Australia although comparatively speaking, we are light years ahead of Indonesia in terms of recognistion of animal welfare.

I come from a family whose livelyhood depends upon cropping and cattle, our preference is to have regional abbattoirs once again operating which would regenerate those areas which keenly felt the closures.I will note that we did not nor seek sales to the live export industry as we found a steady productivity within local market. Exporting processed and chilled meat o/s is my personal preference for many reasons and religion does play a part due to the mistrust that boxed beef processed here may not have been 'done' in accordance with Islamic practices.

I am guessing from the limited information I have that the ban on exporting beef would hurt local markets short term before the usual balancing out is made, but northern producers in the top end are the ones who will suffer financially the most due to remote location and (to my knowledge) no local meat processing plants.

I grew up in an era (getting old!) where home slaughtering was done, I was about 12 when I first saw a steer slaughtered via a bullet, it was instantaneous and I did so at that time because I thought if I eat it I should have the guts to watch it die. I felt sorry for it, but at the same time relieved that it didn't suffer at all. I know I could not personally watch the way those cattle in Indonesia suffered and died which the final decider (amongst others) for me supporting a proposed ban.

(I will most likely take a hit in my hip pocket and the Angus I was looking at once with $ signs has lost some of their glean.)

I am usually one of the people who has a certain amount of healthy cynicism when it comes to Animal rights/green groups as I've found an extreme element to some of them, however the chinese whispers about these practices have been circulating for many years outside of these groups and in livestock sources themselves, but often attributed to 'urban myth' type of stories when mentioned in public circles. Urban myth no more.

This post is just my personal views and I am not egocentric enough (yet....ha!) to believe I am "right" or "wrong" because it is a highly emotive and sometimes interesting subject but I have especially appeciated some of the points of views from both sides of the fence when it has been done in an eloquent manner.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Suspension of all live exports to Indonesia announced:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/live-cattle-ban-to-stay-20110607-1fr8b.html

THE federal government has decided to suspend the export of all live cattle to Indonesia, following a public outcry and a threatened backbench revolt.

The Agriculture Minister, Joe Ludwig, signed the order last night and said the ban would stay in place until safeguards had been adopted that would ensure the proper treatment of the beasts along the whole supply chain.

The decision to suspend the $318 million-a-year-industry was taken by cabinet on Monday night and has the potential to upset the Indonesians, the cattle industry and the federal opposition, all of which have argued against a blanket ban.

Advertisement: Story continues below

The Prime Minster, Julia Gillard, said the government would work with the Indonesians and the cattle industry to ''bring about major change'' to the handling of cattle in Indonesian slaughterhouses.

Ms Gillard met industry representatives in Darwin last night.

Industry suspicions of a total ban grew late yesterday when a shipment of 1900 cattle bound for Indonesia was stopped from loading at Port Hedland, Western Australia.

No-one was able to get a straight answer from the government about the reason for the suspension but the Cattle Council of Australia's executive director, David Inall, suspected a total ban was about to be announced.

He warned this would limit Australia's ability to stay in the Indonesian market and improve the standard of its abattoirs.

The ban is the first such move since the Howard government suspended sending live sheep to Egypt in February 2006 following television footage showing mistreatment of the animals.

The outcry leading to the suspension of cattle exports to Indonesia began on Monday last week when the ABC's Four Corners broadcast footage showing brutal slaughtering methods and mistreatment inside Indonesian abattoirs.

Initially, Senator Ludwig proposed an inquiry but such was the fury among the Labor backbench that he suspended the export of cattle to 12 offending abattoirs and commissioned an independent review.

The independents Andrew Wilkie and Nick Xenophon, animal rights activists and others kept demanding a total suspension and on Tuesday next week, the caucus was set to pass a motion backing a complete moratorium.

On Monday, the cattle industry apologised and fought for a compromise. It proposed banning exports to all but 25 of the more than 100 Indonesian abattoirs that took Australian cattle, and offered to place inspectors in each.

Senator Ludwig said last night the independent review would help inform the process of adopting new safeguards which ''will ensure the long-term sustainability of the industry while ensuring live cattle exported from Australia are treated humanely''.

''I know this decision will impact on the industry but a sustainable live cattle export industry must be built on the ability to safeguard the welfare of the animals,'' he said.

The decision heads off a fight with the backbench but is likely to anger Indonesia, which relies on Australian beef for 25 per cent of its beef supply and may suffer sharp rises in prices ahead of Ramadan next month.

''The Indonesians won't like it,'' said Bruce Warren, who operates a state-of-the-art feedlot and abattoir in Java.

''If the trade stops, it will be hard to start again … The Indonesian government is already talking about this in terms of an opportunity for self-sufficiency.''

But, even as the ban is introduced, there are about 100,000 Australian cattle in Indonesia being fattened before slaughter.

It is inevitable some will end up in abattoirs that are substandard and prone to use cruel techniques to kill the beasts.

A recent audit by the government and Meat & Livestock Australia inspectors found more than three-quarters of the abattoirs in Indonesia that process Australian cattle don't adhere to world standards for animal welfare and only a handful are modern ''world class'' facilities.

''The concern is that there will be a period where these cattle will be showing up at abattoirs that are outside our control,'' said Mr Warren.

The exports to Indonesia account for almost half the annual $753 million made from live cattle exports annually.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/live-cattle-ban-to-stay-20110607-1fr8b.html#ixzz1OcoHSuVa

[WoofnHoof]

Thanks for the update SSM very interesting times ahead!

Thanks for your thoughts too gwenneth1 you will be happy to know that the abattoir up the road from me in Qld utilises handling facilities designed by Temple Grandin

[raz]

I just saw that in the paper. Too bad for the 100,000 Aus cattle still in the feedlots awaiting slaughter. Now we have no hope in improving their welfare and being sent to the A listed abbatoirs.

[stormie]

I just saw that in the paper. Too bad for the 100,000 Aus cattle still in the feedlots awaiting slaughter. Now we have no hope in improving their welfare and being sent to the A listed abbatoirs.

Raz I genuinely don't understand why we need to keep sending cattle to improve the welfare? Surely we can still work with Indonesia in order to improve conditions and once standards have been raised, exporting can then resume?

Wouldn't the initial ban to the 13 or so abattoirs mean that those cattle currently in the feedlots WILL be sent to the better abattoirs?

[raz]

I can only hope, Stormie but the indonesians can be very *ahum* temperamental to deal with. Why are they going to let Australians tell them what to do when the Ag Minister already warned he would just go elsewhere. If they source from Somalia they're not going to be told how to kill the cattle so the abominable practices are going to continue. I think it's really sad Gillard caved on this issue rather then keep the industry in there and fix the problem

[Bullbreedlover]

Suspension of all live exports to Indonesia announced:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/live-cattle-ban-to-stay-20110607-1fr8b.html

THE federal government has decided to suspend the export of all live cattle to Indonesia, following a public outcry and a threatened backbench revolt.

The Agriculture Minister, Joe Ludwig, signed the order last night and said the ban would stay in place until safeguards had been adopted that would ensure the proper treatment of the beasts along the whole supply chain.

The decision to suspend the $318 million-a-year-industry was taken by cabinet on Monday night and has the potential to upset the Indonesians, the cattle industry and the federal opposition, all of which have argued against a blanket ban.

Advertisement: Story continues below

The Prime Minster, Julia Gillard, said the government would work with the Indonesians and the cattle industry to ''bring about major change'' to the handling of cattle in Indonesian slaughterhouses.

Ms Gillard met industry representatives in Darwin last night.

Industry suspicions of a total ban grew late yesterday when a shipment of 1900 cattle bound for Indonesia was stopped from loading at Port Hedland, Western Australia.

No-one was able to get a straight answer from the government about the reason for the suspension but the Cattle Council of Australia's executive director, David Inall, suspected a total ban was about to be announced.

He warned this would limit Australia's ability to stay in the Indonesian market and improve the standard of its abattoirs.

The ban is the first such move since the Howard government suspended sending live sheep to Egypt in February 2006 following television footage showing mistreatment of the animals.

The outcry leading to the suspension of cattle exports to Indonesia began on Monday last week when the ABC's Four Corners broadcast footage showing brutal slaughtering methods and mistreatment inside Indonesian abattoirs.

Initially, Senator Ludwig proposed an inquiry but such was the fury among the Labor backbench that he suspended the export of cattle to 12 offending abattoirs and commissioned an independent review.

The independents Andrew Wilkie and Nick Xenophon, animal rights activists and others kept demanding a total suspension and on Tuesday next week, the caucus was set to pass a motion backing a complete moratorium.

On Monday, the cattle industry apologised and fought for a compromise. It proposed banning exports to all but 25 of the more than 100 Indonesian abattoirs that took Australian cattle, and offered to place inspectors in each.

Senator Ludwig said last night the independent review would help inform the process of adopting new safeguards which ''will ensure the long-term sustainability of the industry while ensuring live cattle exported from Australia are treated humanely''.

''I know this decision will impact on the industry but a sustainable live cattle export industry must be built on the ability to safeguard the welfare of the animals,'' he said.

The decision heads off a fight with the backbench but is likely to anger Indonesia, which relies on Australian beef for 25 per cent of its beef supply and may suffer sharp rises in prices ahead of Ramadan next month.

''The Indonesians won't like it,'' said Bruce Warren, who operates a state-of-the-art feedlot and abattoir in Java.

''If the trade stops, it will be hard to start again … The Indonesian government is already talking about this in terms of an opportunity for self-sufficiency.''

But, even as the ban is introduced, there are about 100,000 Australian cattle in Indonesia being fattened before slaughter.

It is inevitable some will end up in abattoirs that are substandard and prone to use cruel techniques to kill the beasts.

A recent audit by the government and Meat & Livestock Australia inspectors found more than three-quarters of the abattoirs in Indonesia that process Australian cattle don't adhere to world standards for animal welfare and only a handful are modern ''world class'' facilities.

''The concern is that there will be a period where these cattle will be showing up at abattoirs that are outside our control,'' said Mr Warren.

The exports to Indonesia account for almost half the annual $753 million made from live cattle exports annually.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/live-cattle-ban-to-stay-20110607-1fr8b.html#ixzz1OcoHSuVa

WELL DONE Government!!!!!

Yes some interesting times ahead WnH

Edited June 8, 2011 by Bullbreedlover

[Inevitablue]

Good god, who is going to get feed to all those cattle stuck at Port Hedland and the like.

I'm all for ceasing supplying certain slaughterhouses in Indonesia, and spending a couple of million up front supervising the ones we supply in the short term. The economic losses and the compensation the beef farmers will now seek will FAR FAR outweigh the cost of sending MLA, vets, boners, whoever it takes to ensure that until it's sorted the cattle sent from TODAY onwards will be treated humanely.

This is a knee jerk reaction when the people in the know have been aware about this inexcusable cruelty for YEARS. Do I resent Animals Aust? Nope, because this could have continued under the radar for many more years.

Sensationalism? Nope, they have presented their point in a masterstroke way. Well done to them. They have an agenda, but it's the Gov who should have taken the pragmatic approach over the emotional one.

1000's of cattle sitting in yards, with no provisions for long term care, they would have been better off being transported to a humane death.

[WoofnHoof]

Good god, who is going to get feed to all those cattle stuck at Port Hedland and the like.

I'm all for ceasing supplying certain slaughterhouses in Indonesia, and spending a couple of million up front supervising the ones we supply in the short term. The economic losses and the compensation the beef farmers will now seek will FAR FAR outweigh the cost of sending MLA, vets, boners, whoever it takes to ensure that until it's sorted the cattle sent from TODAY onwards will be treated humanely.

This is a knee jerk reaction when the people in the know have been aware about this inexcusable cruelty for YEARS. Do I resent Animals Aust? Nope, because this could have continued under the radar for many more years.

Sensationalism? Nope, they have presented their point in a masterstroke way. Well done to them. They have an agenda, but it's the Gov who should have taken the pragmatic approach over the emotional one.

1000's of cattle sitting in yards, with no provisions for long term care, they would have been better off being transported to a humane death.

You can send as many vets boners etc as you like doesn't mean anything if the Indonesians won't listen and won't change their practices, why would they when we are still happily supplying cattle to them? It's only by showing that we can and will stop supply that we have any right to dictate terms. Whether it works I don't know but that's the only card we have to play so the government has decided to play it.

[Inevitablue]

Trust me W&H I am sickened to the stomach just knowing what 100,000's of cattle have suffered.

But I do acknowledge that there must be some legit slaughterhouses in Indonesia, and even if AA reps were paid by the gov to accompany cattle in the interim to at least clear the sale yards here at home. I'm sure the general public would feel more at ease knowing the cattle were accompanied by people who care.

[WoofnHoof]

Trust me W&H I am sickened to the stomach just knowing what 100,000's of cattle have suffered.

But I do acknowledge that there must be some legit slaughterhouses in Indonesia, and even if AA reps were paid by the gov to accompany cattle in the interim to at least clear the sale yards here at home. I'm sure the general public would feel more at ease knowing the cattle were accompanied by people who care.

They might be accompanied but what can they do? The cattle are sold what power do we have to say they must go to certain slaughterhouses? What power do we have to enforce that when in the past they've never had to listen? What if half the shipment goes to a good one and half goes to a bad one, the AA rep can't stand in front of the truck and say 'no you can't take them'. I just don't see what solution would be enforceable without having taken this stand first, to show that we are prepared to stop supply and that we aren't bluffing.

[KatrinaM]

Amanda, here is an article to help you see how animal rights people view pet ownership in the same boat (unintended pun) as export cattle.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Weve-got-to-stop-treating-animals-like-animals/

After a maelstrom of mainstream media coverage and social media activism, the federal government has temporarily suspended the export of live cattle to Indonesia. The move follows the ABC’s documentary program Four Corners’ recent exposé of the live export trade in which shocking video footage obtained by Lyn White, director of Animals Australia, revealed cows being tortured to death in a slow and agonising manner.

The distressing images, which depicted barbaric practices that included whipping the cattle, gouging their eyes and slashing their tendons, raised the ire of so many people across the country that Animals Australia’s website collapsed from the sheer volume of traffic on the night the program screened.

Social media networks Facebook and Twitter quickly became campaign tools utilised by meat-eaters and vegans alike who united in protesting the horrendous cruelty inflicted on Australian cattle: within a week, more than 200,000 people had signed lobby group GetUp’s petition calling on the Prime Minister and Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig to ban the export of live cattle to Indonesia and phase out the live export trade all together within three years, and independent MPs and the Greens introduced private members bills to ban all live exports to the country.

On the face of it, the concerted action from the public across the nation, many of whom were justifiably outraged and traumatised by the unspeakably cruel acts inflicted on cattle in Indonesian slaughterhouses, is heartening – as is the Gillard government’s response.

But – as laudable as a suspension of live cattle exports (whether temporary or permanent) to Indonesia, or any other country is – it does not addresses the real issue, which is a need for a radical shakeup of our thinking about our relationship to animals.

Calls to ban the live export industry are all well and good, but they are rooted in a welfare approach that continues to sanction the commodification of animals’ bodies. This is clearly demonstrated by the alliance of animal protection organisations with the Australian Meat Industry Employers Union (AMIEU) in calling for a ban on live exports.

The AMIEU is concerned with boosting jobs in local abattoirs and both Animals Australia and the RSPCA called on the federal government in a media statement to “assist [meat] producers in whatever way is necessary to get their animals to processors in Australia”. Even the newly formed Animal Justice Party concurs.

But simply banning live export of cattle to Indonesia is not granting justice to animals. Only a major shift in our cultural assumptions about whether we have a right to use and exploit animals for food, fashion or entertainment will come anywhere close to doing that.

We need to challenge the status quo in which animals are deemed to be nothing more than property and in which unique sentient beings with social needs and complex emotional lives are reduced to mere ‘units of production’. Instead we take the easy option of comforting ourselves with the idea that as long as we treat animals ‘nicely’ and kill them ‘humanely’ it’s acceptable to enslave them to service our own self-interests.

Now, of course it’s ‘better’ that an animal dies a quick death rather than being slowly tortured before he or she dies. If someone were to decide to kill me, a quick gun shot to my head would be preferable to cutting me up slowly with a machete. But the best outcome would be for me not to be killed in the first place.

The agonising ordeal of Australian cattle in Indonesia is in no way acceptable, ever; yet we kid ourselves if we think that all is well in our own backyard – as comedian Dave Hughes, who has worked in abbatoirs here, tweeted.

Millions of animals suffer horrendously in intensive or factory farm systems – from battery hens crammed into tiny cages whose beaks are sliced off and legs broken; pigs confined in concrete gestation crates where they can barely suckle their young; to cows kept perpetually pregnant and lactating whose calves are forcibly removed to provide milk and dairy products for human consumption – all of whom eventually end up with the same terrified look in their eyes as they are shackled upside down to await slaughter on the kill floors of abbatoirs right here in Australia.

To treat another living creature with such disdain that slow torture is considered acceptable, as in the case of Indonesia, is a sign of moral bankruptcy. Yet so too is sanctioning the mass slaughter of animals in Australia every day simply to satisfy our tastebuds.

The live export trade should not be seen in isolation, but rather as a symptom of unjust structural systems based on cruelty, oppression and inequality that benefit none of us in the long run – especially the animals. We can – and must – do better.

Katrina Fox is a freelance writer specialising in gender politics; sex, gender and sexuality diversity; and animal rights. She is the editor-in-chief of The Scavenger, a not-for-profit online magazine

[raz]

They might be accompanied but what can they do? The cattle are sold what power do we have to say they must go to certain slaughterhouses? What power do we have to enforce that when in the past they've never had to listen? What if half the shipment goes to a good one and half goes to a bad one, the AA rep can't stand in front of the truck and say 'no you can't take them'. I just don't see what solution would be enforceable without having taken this stand first, to show that we are prepared to stop supply and that we aren't bluffing.

None now until the suspension is lifted. Those 100,000 Brians could end up in someone's backyard and wait for a blunt knife. When it's lifted and if the Indonesians will deal with our industry again the MLA will have control of the supply chain.

[WoofnHoof]

They might be accompanied but what can they do? The cattle are sold what power do we have to say they must go to certain slaughterhouses? What power do we have to enforce that when in the past they've never had to listen? What if half the shipment goes to a good one and half goes to a bad one, the AA rep can't stand in front of the truck and say 'no you can't take them'. I just don't see what solution would be enforceable without having taken this stand first, to show that we are prepared to stop supply and that we aren't bluffing.

None now until the suspension is lifted. Those 100,000 Brians could end up in someone's backyard and wait for a blunt knife. When it's lifted and if the Indonesians will deal with our industry again the MLA will have control of the supply chain.

Oh well clearly we had no power before anyway so I don't see much difference.

[raz]

Well maybe you havent seen the MLA proposals. Looks pretty workable to me and certainly a much better solution than throwing hands up in the air, suspending the trade and giving the Indos an ultimatum which they'll probably take ie tell us to take a hike

eta and there you go...the poo fight starts

http://media.smh.com.au/news/national-news/indonesia-issues-warning-over-cattle-ban-2417867.html?from=newsbox

Edited June 8, 2011 by raz

[stormie]

Apparently the MLA has known about the treatment of these animals for years. If that's the case, why hasn't something been done sooner? There's all these talk of 'plans' the MLA have to improve thing, but where's the action been?

[raz]

I'm not talking about what they have or havent done in the past. I'm talking about the current proposals