Ludwig Orders Inquiry Into Indon Cattle

[KatrinaM]

Their own cattle arent comparable in size, weight and temperament, hence the earlier problems.

I propose the banning of live beef, sheep and goat exports from Australia and from NZ(just threw that one in there) completely.

Why??????

What about embryos and semen???

What about animals that will be used to improve the genetics of livestock in third world countries? Our genetics have improved milk production in tropical countries and wool production in others. If it werent for other countries letting us import cattle, embryos and semen I wouldnt have my cattle today. It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

What about dogs? Cats?

Should we ban the export of pedigree dogs to some parts of Asia because there is no absolute guarentee they wont end up in the pot and we find the eating of dogs unacceptable?

Where does it end.

I would like to see Australian inspectors in every meatworks that processes cattle sourced from Australia, further training and better auditing. I would like to see stun guns introduced into all meatworks that process Australian cattle and their use ensured on every single beast by inspectors. I would like to see the fellas who work the yards in the meatworks trained in better practice as well. Those places where they were filmed beating, kicking, hamstringing and eye gouging cattle to be banned from recieving Australian cattle until they can show how they plan to change or be restricted indefinatly. I would like to see the actual lads that did it charged (however I dont think this last wish is a reality.)

[Bullbreedlover]

Their own cattle arent comparable in size, weight and temperament, hence the earlier problems.

I propose the banning of live beef, sheep and goat exports from Australia and from NZ(just threw that one in there) completely.

Why??????

What about embryos and semen???

What about animals that will be used to improve the genetics of livestock in third world countries? Our genetics have improved milk production in tropical countries and wool production in others. If it werent for other countries letting us import cattle, embryos and semen I wouldnt have my cattle today. It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

What about dogs? Cats?

Should we ban the export of pedigree dogs to some parts of Asia because there is no absolute guarentee they wont end up in the pot and we find the eating of dogs unacceptable?

Where does it end.

I would like to see Australian inspectors in every meatworks that processes cattle sourced from Australia, further training and better auditing. I would like to see stun guns introduced into all meatworks that process Australian cattle and their use ensured on every single beast by inspectors. I would like to see the fellas who work the yards in the meatworks trained in better practice as well. Those places where they were filmed beating, kicking, hamstringing and eye gouging cattle to be banned from recieving Australian cattle until they can show how they plan to change or be restricted indefinatly. I would like to see the actual lads that did it charged (however I dont think this last wish is a reality.)

Last time I checked...embryos and semen can be frozen and they are exported to alot of Countries. Obviously you already know that.

Suitable breeding stock will be available to use and these can be utilised for quite a few years to improve stock.

Live meat animals dont have to be exported.

NZ does export live animals for breeding purposes.

[raz]

I don't care much about religious practices or beliefs, but honestly what kind of religion deems It ok for an animal In which they are about to consume to suffer any more than It should Is that the thanks they give for receiving this food It's disgusting and definitely NOT acceptable on ANY level especially using religion as their cover up. It's pathetic

You're misinformed. Islam does not condone an animal suffering anymore than it should for food purposes, infact the Indonesian clerics have condemned the acts of the abbatoir workers who were cruel to the animals as sinful. It's Australians who are using religion to have a go at the big bad Moslems

[RottnBullies]

I don't care much about religious practices or beliefs, but honestly what kind of religion deems It ok for an animal In which they are about to consume to suffer any more than It should Is that the thanks they give for receiving this food It's disgusting and definitely NOT acceptable on ANY level especially using religion as their cover up. It's pathetic

You're misinformed. Islam does not condone an animal suffering anymore than it should for food purposes, infact the Indonesian clerics have condemned the acts of the abbatoir workers who were cruel to the animals as sinful. It's Australians who are using religion to have a go at the big bad Moslems

Well then maybe someone can Inform me to what Halal actually means for the animal being slaughtered, because I seem to be getting conflicting Information on how It's practiced.

Animals killed halal (according to Islamic law) cannot be stunned before their throats are cut, which means that many animals fight and gasp for their last breath, struggling to stand while the blood drains from their necks.

Is this not right then?

[Bullbreedlover]

Animals killed halal (according to Islamic law) cannot be stunned before their throats are cut, which means that many animals fight and gasp for their last breath, struggling to stand while the blood drains from their necks.

Is this not right then?

No it is not correct RnB

The standard for meat production in Australia is that all animals must be effectively stunned (unconscious) prior to slaughter. The most common form of halal slaughter complies with the Australian standard.

[RottnBullies]

I know they are stunned here.....But I'm not talking about how they do It here though. Aren't we talking about our cattle sent o/seas!...Now It seems that what's acceptable Halal here Is not acceptable In other countries Yes I'm starting to get confused

[Bullbreedlover]

I know they are stunned here.....But I'm not talking about how they do It here though. Aren't we talking about our cattle sent o/seas!...Now It seems that what's acceptable Halal here Is not acceptable In other countries Yes I'm starting to get confused

Sorry

your post didnt ask about what is acceptable overseas.

I was only answering your quote

[RottnBullies]

No my apologies BBL for not stating the country

At the end of the day though Halal Is Halal Isn't It? Is It not done one way regardless of country?

[stormie]

RnB I just found this explanation on a website MuslimVillage.com. It's quite interesting and explains how the Halal slaughter really shouldn't see an animal feel stress at all.

But another thing to consider, is that I imagine a lot of the cattle we export have been raised on massive stations with very little human contact, so I would imagine that many abattoirs would be dealing with some pretty wild animals that would be pretty stressed just with being handled?

[RottnBullies]

Thanks for the link Stormie I will check It out

[Shazzapug]

Sorry stormie, it does. Traditionally cattle were killed by tying them down, facing them towards Meca and slitting their throat, which is pretty rough when you see it done. The welfare of the animal is not always a consideration. Thats the way they have always done things so why should they change? We are trying to change the way livestock who have been purchased from us are handled in another country, one where people arent exactly treated that flash. Its a bit of an ask to think its going to happen overnight.There is diagreement between clerics as to whether the use of stun guns will still allow the meat to be Halal. If it does cause instantanious death then the meat becomes haraam and their lies the problem.

Sholahudin al-Ayubi is not lying - gouging eyes, broken legs and blunt knives are wrong in anybodies culture, and I am certainly not defending that. There is no excuse for these things to happen, in Indonesia or anywhere else in the world.

If people really cared about cattle and how they are handled why wouldnt you want to change the way cattle are treated across the board? It is silly and unworkable to have one set of rules for Austrlian cattle and another for all the rest.

Absolute crap...I didnt watch the program but a good friend animal like minded told me about the footage and said "they were trying to kill the cow with a BLUNT hacksaw and the poor cow was flayling around". My butcher has a knife that he kills sheep with and he hardly has to touch them as the blade is soooo sharp. These people didnt care about the cow and did not treat it with the respect one of gods creatures demands, and an aussie one at that. This has been going on for 20 years...beyond expressions of words.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Shazzapug

[Shazzapug]

I don't care much about religious practices or beliefs, but honestly what kind of religion deems It ok for an animal In which they are about to consume to suffer any more than It should Is that the thanks they give for receiving this food It's disgusting and definitely NOT acceptable on ANY level especially using religion as their cover up. It's pathetic

You're misinformed. Islam does not condone an animal suffering anymore than it should for food purposes, infact the Indonesian clerics have condemned the acts of the abbatoir workers who were cruel to the animals as sinful. It's Australians who are using religion to have a go at the big bad Moslems

They may not condone animals suffering but it is in their religion that an animal be alive when its throat is cut...so it can be properly bled. They have been sinful for 20 years this isnt something that has just happened overnight.

[raz]

You're confusing Quranic mandates with cultural practices. The cruelty that was filmed in the doco was about uneducated, untrained abbatoir workers. They could have been anywhere in the world, including Australia. People jumped on the eye gouging and head slapping etc thinking that was supported by Dhabihah - it's not.

As for the earlier comment about stun guns, The senior clerics from the MUI fully support the use of them. It's not religion hampering the use of stun guns in Indonesia but the Indonesian Govt causing problems with the import because they're listed as a prohibited weapon.

I'm not Indonesian nor am I Islamic but it's not hard to find this information - it's been all over the newspapers for days.

eta here we go. This is in today's paper if you're interested

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/cattle-export-industry-is-too-valuable-to-ban-20110602-1fi59.html

Edited June 2, 2011 by raz

[stormie]

I don't care much about religious practices or beliefs, but honestly what kind of religion deems It ok for an animal In which they are about to consume to suffer any more than It should Is that the thanks they give for receiving this food It's disgusting and definitely NOT acceptable on ANY level especially using religion as their cover up. It's pathetic

You're misinformed. Islam does not condone an animal suffering anymore than it should for food purposes, infact the Indonesian clerics have condemned the acts of the abbatoir workers who were cruel to the animals as sinful. It's Australians who are using religion to have a go at the big bad Moslems

They may not condone animals suffering but it is in their religion that an animal be alive when its throat is cut...so it can be properly bled. They have been sinful for 20 years this isnt something that has just happened overnight.

Did you look at the link I posted earlier? If done properly, the animal does not register as much pain as it apparently does when a bolt gun is used.

[greytpets]

I eat meat like most people but I expect the animals of the meat I consume to have a good life followed by a humane death. It doesn't matter what the reason was that thses cattle were tortured it is just not acceptable. I would rather see these cattle processed in this country & give jobs to Australians than send them overseas.

[raz]

I eat meat like most people but I expect the animals of the meat I consume to have a good life followed by a humane death. It doesn't matter what the reason was that thses cattle were tortured it is just not acceptable. I would rather see these cattle processed in this country & give jobs to Australians than send them overseas.

Ohhh good grief. How about you educate yourself.

[Guest]

Its man's inhumanity to animals once again, it makes me sick to see the way animals are treated. I'm so glad I don't eat meat,and I dont't want my body to be a burial ground for animals. If farmers used their farms to grow crops for human's instead of growing to feed cattle there would be a lot less starving people in the world, and a lot less suffering for animals.

Leo Tolstoy said, so long as there are slaughter houses, there will be wars.

[Bullbreedlover]

I eat meat like most people but I expect the animals of the meat I consume to have a good life followed by a humane death. It doesn't matter what the reason was that thses cattle were tortured it is just not acceptable. I would rather see these cattle processed in this country & give jobs to Australians than send them overseas.

You are quite correct greytpets.

The loss of thousands and thousands of jobs and millions of dollars has affected many work places in Australia. Not just abattoirs. There is no need for the cattle to be exported and inhumanely killed.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Bullbreedlover

[brightonrock]

As soon as live exports were stopped to Saudi Arabia, chilled meat from Australia was purchased. The slaughtermen who tortured the cattle were human beings. They have no excuse and I am no religious scholar but show me where it says "torture the animal and give it a slow death" in the Koran?

Stop all live exports now, it is the ONLY way. Julia Gillard who many of us voted for in an act of faith is on shaky ground if she does not act fast and with some courage.

I could never ever contemplate exporting dogs to a country that treats any animal this way.

[Shazzapug]

I eat meat like most people but I expect the animals of the meat I consume to have a good life followed by a humane death. It doesn't matter what the reason was that thses cattle were tortured it is just not acceptable. I would rather see these cattle processed in this country & give jobs to Australians than send them overseas.

My cows have a good life they graze 30 acres and get talked to nice by us humans and when we slaughter them we get a mobile butcher who is a dead eye dick with his rifle, spread out hay as usual and they die never knowing what happened.

Go look at where your meat comes from that you buy in the supermarket...Feed lots...the cattle dont have a good life, wouldnt know what grass was....at least they die humanely.