Should Members Of The Public Be Allowed To Bring Their Own Dogs Along

[megan_]

PF, I feel the need to clarify. I only ever go around the perimeter, and in Victoria there is no restriction on the public bringing their dog to a show other than the Royal, as another poster has explained. I certainly haven't seen any signs out and about?

She is very comfortable in large crowds. We belong to more than one dog training club and she does agility. I am not using the two shows that I went to as a subsitute for dealing with behavioural issues (I'm pretty sure that both Erny and Cosmolo could attest to that). Rather, it is one of the few environments where I don't have someone trying to pat her because she is cute and when I say "please just ignore her" non-dog savvy people crouch down and talk to her in a baby voice. I have never experienced that at a show because most people are focusing on their own dog and not on her. If I thought for a second that she would react in this environment then she wouldn't be there.

KCC isn't a law-free area for non-ANKC members. If one of my dogs attacks anyone, I will still be legally liable for the damages, have a dangerous dog declaration and you could still sue me civily. You'd also have plently of witnesses.

As I said in my original post, I have never had any indiction that I was doing the wrong thing. If it is such a big deal we won't step a foot on the showgrounds ever again .

Megz - I have no expection of being covered by the CC's public liability insurance - that is why I have my own.

Edited May 31, 2011 by megan_

[brintey]

Hi Megz,

To be honest I see the risk I take taking my dogs out to a dog show as being the same as the risk I take taking them out for a walk - or anywhere in public, really! I would have assumed that if I allowed my dogs to break the law in any way that I would be dealt with under the appropriate State law (CAA in NSW). I don't expect to be covered by the Club for anything.

[Bilbo Baggins]

It's a bit of a sad state of affairs when people involved in the dog world are discussing the exclusion of dogs from dog events. It's bad enough that dogs are excluded from many, many public places already.

Why is that ?

There are rules and regs to cover the behaviour of exhibitors and exhibts at shows and consequences for dogs that behave in an aggressive manner.

If your dog is attacked and injured at a show by average Joe's visiting pet, then there's not much you can do about it.

But the rules could apply to everyone? If your dog misbehaves you have to leave?

Unfortunately, dog attacks can happen anywhere. Some of the worst dog behaviour I have ever seen has been at breed club events - think snarling dogs going at each other and owners standing there chatting about the weather!

I personally would like a code of conduct that is policed, rather than all non-show dogs being banned. As I said, I have taken my two along before and I make sure they don't bother anyone.

The reason I like taking them to shows is that my ex-puppy farm breeding bitch isn't fond of people who pay her attention. At a dog show, everyone is primping and preening their own dog and ignores her - so she happily trots along. However, judging by most posts in this thread, there is now one less place I can take her to - I'm sadly running out of options.

megan if you are controlling her there is no reason why you can not keep taking her.

[Trisven13]

I've had more (thankfully minor) incidents at dog shows than away from them. Grover was bitten once by a Dachshund who actually walked into the group line up with Grover's fur in his mouth - his owner didn't apologise, he just laughed. Daphne was recently rushed by a Brittany and I've seen plenty of other incidents including people being bitten by show dogs.

Obviously all dogs should be controlled at any event which dogs attend but I think its unfair to say that it only happens with the general public's dogs. What happened to Sway on the weekend was inexcusable but in my experience it could as easily have been another exhibitor's dog who did it.

[SwaY]

Obviously all dogs should be controlled at any event which dogs attend but I think its unfair to say that it only happens with the general public's dogs. What happened to Sway on the weekend was inexcusable but in my experience it could as easily have been another exhibitor's dog who did it.

No one is saying it only happens with the general publics dogs - what many are saying is, if it is a dog entered at the show then something can be done about it. No action can be taken with a member of the publics dog other then asking them to leave.

[Shazzapug]

I voted No No and No...although I have been known to take an extra baby along to socialise but not that often. Being in the Toy ring is a pain in the butt when giant/large breeds walk passed...a trolley full of Pugs find it most neccessary to bark at every big dog that goes by. Giant/large breed dogs that are also being shown think nothing of the trolley full of abuse, but a pet being led on inappropriate collars and leads with inexperienced handlers aka Joe public feel the need to stop and laugh and further antagonise the Pugs with their dogs!!! This is tolerable in an open space as a footy oval...but in an enclosed area like Bulla or the Park it is most annoying. Used to be worse at the old showgrounds as pet people mainly it seemed with staffies with big spikey collars on (no offence Staffy breeders/exhibitors) paraded their dogs thru the Toy ring dogs.

[Danois]

I don't think the general public's dogs (especially the oodle types) belong at dog shows and can't really understand why people would take their own dog when they're there to look at dogs etc - why have the distraction?

OT but...

Being in the Toy ring is a pain in the butt when giant/large breeds walk passed...a trolley full of Pugs find it most neccessary to bark at every big dog that goes by. Giant/large breed dogs that are also being shown think nothing of the trolley full of abuse...

(snipped)

This used to irritate the hell out of me (owning/ showing a giant breed) - not being able to walk near the toy ring without dogs going off simply because he walked past. My giant actually did have an issue with the trolleys full of abuse but many toy owners seem to have no issue with their dog's behaviour. In my breed your dog gets roused on pretty damn quick if it barks at another ETA or even barks fullstop.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Danois

[Dogsfevr]

?

OT but...

Being in the Toy ring is a pain in the butt when giant/large breeds walk passed...a trolley full of Pugs find it most neccessary to bark at every big dog that goes by. Giant/large breed dogs that are also being shown think nothing of the trolley full of abuse...

This used to irritate the hell out of me (owning/ showing a giant breed) - not being able to walk near the toy ring without dogs going off simply because he walked past. My giant actually did have an issue with the trolleys full of abuse but many toy owners seem to have no issue with their dog's behaviour. In my breed your dog gets roused on pretty damn quick if it barks at another.

So agree with this & it seems to be an Aussie wide thing,here we have Pugs & Chis that go off like ferals in a zoo yet we get the dirty looks for walking past there trolleys ,often uncovered & the owners doing nothing .

Toys shouldn't be exempt from good manners & like Danois said if the big dogs did it fingers get pointed very quickly.

We have a group of exhibitors here that people are getting rightly pi**ed off with due to the performance off there toys in crates,pens/trolleys & they do nothing ,does nothing for the breed rep either but above all not acceptable & blaming the big dogs doesn't cut it either .

The toy ring isn't special.

[SwaY]

OT but...

Being in the Toy ring is a pain in the butt when giant/large breeds walk passed...a trolley full of Pugs find it most

neccessary to bark at every big dog that goes by.

Giant/large breed dogs that are also being shown think nothing of the trolley full of abuse...

(snipped)

This used to irritate the hell out of me (owning/ showing a giant breed) - not being able to walk near the toy ring without dogs going off simply because he walked past. My giant actually did have an issue with the trolleys full of abuse but many toy owners seem to have no issue with their dog's behaviour. In my breed your dog gets roused on pretty damn quick if it barks at another.

I could not agree with you more!!!

Edited May 31, 2011 by SwaY

[Danois]

OT but...

Being in the Toy ring is a pain in the butt when giant/large breeds walk passed...a trolley full of Pugs find it most

neccessary to bark at every big dog that goes by.

Giant/large breed dogs that are also being shown think nothing of the trolley full of abuse...

(snipped)

This used to irritate the hell out of me (owning/ showing a giant breed) - not being able to walk near the toy ring without dogs going off simply because he walked past. My giant actually did have an issue with the trolleys full of abuse but many toy owners seem to have no issue with their dog's behaviour. In my breed your dog gets roused on pretty damn quick if it barks at another.

I could not agree with you more!!!

It's always amusing at the Sydney Royal - lots of barking and carry on etc in the Pavillion but absolute silence along our benches LOL

[SwaY]

It's always amusing at the Sydney Royal - lots of barking and carry on etc in the Pavillion but absolute silence along our benches LOL

that's because the exhibitors make more noise lol

[Dracdog]

As for saying no due to no vaccination many show folk never vaccinate so that isn't a reason .

Pretty sure this is "supposedly" against the rules, when the entry form for a show states that the dog must be vaccinated at time of exhibition.

It is in the rules. They also say, (in Qld at least) that dogs that are not entered are not allowed on the grounds without special permission from the Show Manager

Edited May 31, 2011 by Dracdog

[poodlefan]

Speaking of large dogs.. (and this is off topic), Howie met his first Mastiff at the Bulla Shows last weekend. Howie's been Bull Mastiffed plenty of times (and got the slobber to prove it) but this was a step up.

Beautiful dog.. after the intial greeting he lay down to sniff Howie who seemed fascinated by his huge head as they nuzzled one another. Someone walked past and said "that Mastiff could suck your Whippet's head into its mouth with ease"

[Danois]

One of my most favourite memories of Angus was him lying on the ground and letting a young toy breed climb all over his head, go under his big ears etc. He would have been over 70kg.

[becks]

We have rules about unentered dogs not being allowed into shows (this still stands for agri shows but as the agri show allows dogs, it is difficult to then stop unentered dogs from being around the dog show areas). Dogs who aren't being shown can be entered 'not for competition' and some shows allow the public to do this with their dog on the day - at least the club then has owner details for every dog there, should there be an incident - I wonder if a member of the public would give up their deails after an incident with their dog, or just clear off?

You also need to look at what the clubs insurance specifies.

[LizT]

SwaY, I'm glad your dog didn't get hurt.

This is a very tricky situation.

What dictates that a dog is suitable to be out in polite company?

It is not just the pet of Joe Public that can make a nuisence of itself if allowed to get into the 'face' of another dog. I have often seen many exhibitors let their dogs get far too close to another dog (even in the showring) and that can always be a receipe for a 'tiff'.

Not all dogs are as friendly or social as each other (or as their owners believe they are!), whether they are purebred or not, exhibits or not they should all be given their space.

And if I may just add, Showdogs should also be kept under 'control' when people are walking past. A few years back when I first started showing again my then, seven year old daughter was simple walking past a woman who was holding onto a number of ....small breed dogs on lead, when one jumped up at her and bit her arm, tearing her jacket. She was fortunate it was cold and her arms were well covered and not bare.

I believe it is a given that a Dog Lover would be the likely person to visit a Dog Show, and as such is it likely that they may have their pet with them. Of course they need to be held accountable for the behaviour of their pet. And for that matter any children they bring along!!

I think it is also a HUGE assumption that all exhibits have their vaccinations up to date but that pet owners may not. There is nothing that monitors either or any evidence to suggest a person who Show dogs is more or less likely to be up to date with vaccinations than a pet owner. On the contrary owning multiple dogs may be more of a hinderence than a help due to cost, time etc. with regard to an up to date vaccination schedule.

Perhaps some signage asking the public to ensure thy have FULL CONTROL of their PETS at all times if visiting would not go astray?

[emery]

i said yes.

I often take my big pet along for a day out. he loves his crate and when out is so well behaved.

i think the general public should be allowed to bring their dogs providing they have control of them.

some exhibitors lack control of thier dogs too.

[poodlefan]

Perhaps some signage asking the public to ensure thy have FULL CONTROL of their PETS at all times if visiting would not go astray?

Such signage is often displayed in dog parks. We all know how effective it isn't.

Many pet dogs are not accustomed to being in the company of hundreds of other dogs (as Exhibit A in that regard I offer behaviour at MP walks) and many pet owners do not understand that breed and sexual entirity mean that many show dogs are not receptive to approaches by strange dogs, and/or in some cases people. Pet owners sometimes don't understand typical breed behaviour in the dog they own let alone breeds they don't know. Result - risk of incidents occuring.

I don't mind the public bringing well behaved dogs to shows provided that they can exercise some common sense in areas like not giving kids control of the dog and keeping dogs on short leashes and from touching distance around other dogs. Sadly, common sense is not a universal attribute. Furthermore if your purpose in attending a dog show is to meet dogs and talk to breeders, your dog's presence actually inhibits that aim. You can't pat dogs or be invited into gazebos to meet and handle dogs if you're hanging onto your own.

As for the poor behaviour of show dogs? There are two issues I'd highlight: they are entered on the day and they belong to financial members of CCs who are responsible to CCs for the behaviour of those dogs. Insurance covers incidents caused by those dogs. Whether or not it covers such incidents for other dogs is arguable.

Perhaps we might suggest that dogs not entered at shows were allowed onto grounds by invitation only - that would allow breeders to meet up with pup owners and anyone else to provide some guidance on what is an isn't apppropriate in terms of bringing a non-entered dog to a show.

Edited June 1, 2011 by poodlefan

[Jumabaar]

OT but...

Being in the Toy ring is a pain in the butt when giant/large breeds walk passed...a trolley full of Pugs find it most

neccessary to bark at every big dog that goes by.

Giant/large breed dogs that are also being shown think nothing of the trolley full of abuse...

(snipped)

This used to irritate the hell out of me (owning/ showing a giant breed) - not being able to walk near the toy ring without dogs going off simply because he walked past. My giant actually did have an issue with the trolleys full of abuse but many toy owners seem to have no issue with their dog's behaviour. In my breed your dog gets roused on pretty damn quick if it barks at another.

I could not agree with you more!!!

Another massive agreement with this!! Mine is a medium sized breed, and sometimes I NEED to go through the toy area and it is horrid!! Give me one pet dog to deal with over a trolly full of undisciplined show dogs around the toy ring any day.

[Sayreovi]

I am in two minds about this, on one hand I have only ever had issues with show dogs in regards to attacks and being out of control but then I understand that some general public dogs aren't under effective control.

I don't accept the disease side of arguments because any dog can bring in a disease and lets face it we have all seen sick dogs being exhibited so sick dogs are specifically reserved for the public's dogs.

If we ban the public from bringing in their dogs then showies are running the risk again of being seen as elitist and snobby.

In regards to the Bulla shows I walked around a few times with my puppy for socialisation, not necessarily to meet other dogs but to see all the different breeds, several times we got charged at, unable to pass because dogs on long leads were blocking our path and being aggressively barked at.....rude and dangerous behaviour regardless whether they are entered dogs or not.