Chocolate And Carmel

[Nekhbet]

it's not always dangerous depending how you're dosing.

some minerals etc are excreted if going over usable levels. Others you would have to be feeding literally kilograms a day of the natural containing product to cause problems. Otherwise when you purchase a product, be it artificial or naturally containing, there will be a recommended feeding guide. If you stick to that you wont be causing problems

Of course you always introduce a new supplement slowly

[sandgrubber]

Yes. Sire is dominant chocolate, dam, chocolate carrying yellow. Livamol isn't available here, but I can try something with added trace minerals. My dogs get fish oil supplements, but maybe I should change to something with a broader range of trace goodies. I'm leery of mega doses of anything.

Do you get those coats as a result of choc/choc matings ?

Edited May 27, 2011 by sandgrubber

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

If you feed fish oil, you need to also feed extra vitamin E - because the fish oil supplements can deplete it. Some fish oil supplements include Vitamin E to avoid this problem.

[sandgrubber]

Thanks for the replies.

Gawd I hate nutritional questions. Lots of opinions, not much evidence. Google on iodine, dog, coat pulls up only adds for nutritional supplements. Has anyone seen any studies of nutrition and coat bleaching, or is it just salesmanship?

Also, is this purely cosmetic, or is there an indication of a real deficiency? If this or that nutrient will darken coat in bbEe and bbEE allele dogs, does that mean that there is a deficienecy that affects health? If so, is it the case that all cogs are deficient on this diet, but only certain coat colours show it?

[Staranais]

How is it possible to tell if an animal is deficient in copper or anything else without a blood test ? Isn't it dangerous to supplement many things without knowing there is a lack of them to start with ? I would think there would have to be a really serious deficiency for it to affect hair colour. Colour is a genetic thing not dietary. Sunlight & age have an effect on it. I seriously doubt that there is any substance that can be applied or ingested that can alter it.

Copper is needed for the enzyme that creates the black colouration in the coat. But, lack of Cu is certainly not the only thing that can cause loss of colour in an animal's coat. The only real way to tell if an animal is Cu deficient is with a blood test. ETA, we do these on cattle reasonably often, since they often suffer from Cu deficiency & loss of coat colour is a very insensitive way of detecting it.

Sandgrubber, the NRC nutrition guidelines will have a summary of Cu deficiency studies in dogs and cats. The old version is available for free at Google Books. If it's just the tips of the hairs, though, I'd suspect environmental bleaching or something causing hair loss retardation before any kind of dietary deficiency.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Staranais

[RubyStar]

My choc lab has half her tail bleached like that, and when she is losing coat. But when the coat drops, she is back to rich chocolate (minus the bottom half of her tail!)

I might try Livamol, but how much should I be giving and where do I get it from? I could also give it to my yellow lab right?

Edit: what is it? A liquid form or something else?

Edited May 28, 2011 by RubyStar

[sandgrubber]

Sandgrubber, the NRC nutrition guidelines will have a summary of Cu deficiency studies in dogs and cats. The old version is available for free at Google Books. If it's just the tips of the hairs, though, I'd suspect environmental bleaching or something causing hair loss retardation before any kind of dietary deficiency.

Thanks for that. Could you give the exact title . . . and/or author. I can't find it using NRC as publisher and searching for nutrition, guidelines

[Mystiqview]

Livermol is generally available from your animal produce store. Some produce stores do sell it by the kilo. If this is the case, you can buy smaller amounts. But make sure you also look on a whole bag for the amounts to give a dog as the product is aimed at livestock.

It is a meal type powder, a little like bran in consistancy.

[Staranais]

Oh sorry, National Research Council's "nutrient requirements of dogs & cats". The most up to date edition (early 2000s I think) only shows part of it for free, luckily for you the free pages seem to include most of the copper stuff! Page 171-ish.

http://books.google.com/books?id=aqeCwxbRWvsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=national+research+council+dogs+cats&hl=en&ei=znPgTfORGJCKuAOvxqz9Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false