koalathebear Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 These dogs sound fascinating. I was Googling to find out more information about them and keep coming across Maremmas crossed with Border Collies. This sounds like a really horrific combination. Does anyone know how this sort of cross tends to turn out? It actually sounds potentially dangerous given the very different genetic programming of both breeds. Of course I'm not advocating cross-breeding, I'm just curious about what happens tends to happen behaviourally given that both breeds have such strong inherent behaviours programmed into them that are quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 They work in completely opposite ways and would be 100 percent unpredictible and potentially dangerous. Problem is idiots breed them like this and when the poo hits the fan its either tagged a border collie cross or a Maremma cross and whatever breed it is that gets the tag gets the bad rep as if its a normal part of the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypaws Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Amazing .. Very fascinating ! So in a pet situation .. Can they be bonded to a family ? And given they are not your average breed .. How do you meet the needs of the bread mentally and physical in an average suburban family situation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 They bark a lot!! I'm on another forum and suburban people are often complaining about how much their Maremma is barking. I don't think they even realised that that's what they do. I'd be curious how they go in suburbia too Steve?. There is now way I could have Snowy in town, she is a very dedicated protector and barks loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgiew Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Do the pups go out on their own with a flock or are there older dogs with them.Could the pups be attacked by foxes and stray dogs ? What age can they work alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 They are O.K. in town if they are living as if they are humans.If they are with the family [ herd] all the time its no big deal and they dont bark if they sleep inside .We have lots of them in pet homes in suburbia but if you leave them outside spearate to the family they bark.Thats how they work. My house Maremmas are with me all day and when I open the door to go to the clothes line they run ahead of me and Yell "everything back off - here comes Mum" only for a second till I get there then they watch me hang the washing out. Meeting their needs is giving them something to look after .We have one placed with an autistic boy who rarely leaves the house.When the dog first went in the kid was horrible to it .the dog did its stuff and now the dog is the only thing the kids communicates with.The dog is by his side 24 hours a day and goes outside to play only when the boy does .Same thing the dog runs ahead as he is coming out the door goes bark bark get off the property here comes the kid and then stays close sniffing and weeing etc but within a few minutes back with the kid getting a hug. While the kid is on the trampoline or the swings the dog sun bakes. Where you get a problem in suburbia is when you leave them in a back yard with no work. If you have a family - like mine where someone is always with the dog and the dog can live truly as a human rather than a dog there isnt a problem. But when you throw it outside of an evening it will need to shout at anything or any sound that may mean the family would be threatened. One big difference for me was when I had the dog inside and I heard a noise outside - got a bit worried about it so thought I'd let the dog out to scare what ever it was off as she had obviously heard the sound too. I opened the door " Go on then go out and see what the noise is " Nup " Go on go out and check it out for me . 'Nup and she moved to the bedroom - you go out if you want Mum and if anything gets past you Ive got the kids covered" She sat down just inside the boys doorway. Same as she would if it were sheep. Dont leave the animals you are guarding when there is a threat in case the predator gets them while you are not watching. Now I have 2 inside one stays with the kids and the other goes out. 2 Maremmas in a paddock one stays with the sheep and the other chases em off .One Maremma in a paddock moves the sheep to a coner for safety and puts themselves between the threat and the animal. They yell and do scary things to try to talk the predator out of coming too close because taking time out to kill it means the predators mate might slip in the back door. If you understand the breed and forget all the nornal stuff about exercise, training and behaviour and do it all with knowledge of the breed as a difference to dog - its great . If I yell shuddup they think Im barking and upset so they bark more, If I say calmly "its O.K. mate' they shuddup! Within an enclosed area - my home they have perfect manners and do all I ask of them - trained , come, sit etc but when they are turned on and percieve a threat that goes right out the window. Over the last 19 or 20 years Ive owned them Ive learned to trust them and if I respect the breed and what they were bred to do its easy. They make you think they are so in love with you and are so dependent on you but its an illusion I think. For them we are just a job just as the sheep are and its me who has come to trust them and love them to bits just as the sheep do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I remember we had a pair who stayed at the kennels for a while, they started to 'guard' us - were fine with just us staff around, but if we were showing a person around the kennel, the dogs would go crazy, barking at the other people Such Lovely dogs, one of the dogs i know i would love to own, but would never be able to give them what they want, so I will love them from a distance i love watching dogs do what dogs do, these guys are amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Do the pups go out on their own with a flock or are there older dogs with them.Could the pups be attacked by foxes and stray dogs ? What age can they work alone. Usually the bonding process entails. Putting the pup in with the animal species it will be working with in a small area - giving it a retreat to save its self when the animals kick hell out of it . It comes in as if it is afraid - many new owners wonder that they got a dud but thats part of making the animal they will be working with not see them as any threat and accepting direction from them. They stay in that enclosure with those animals for up to 12 weeks and when it is let out its a fair size and is very much devoted to wanting to be with those animals and the animals are wanting to follow it. When they are working you dont look for dead fox or dog bodies you look for no sign of them - the dogs bark, mark and threaten and move the animals they are guarding to safety if they see or hear a threat coming so most times it's not a showdown. Id never expect the dog to have a problem being attacked by a fox but a pack of dogs - maybe - but Ive never heard of it. Thes guys here are 6 weeks old and the ones which are going to sheep properties are out working for a few hours today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) Steve, if you had to compare a maremma with a central asian ovcharka, what would be the main differences? (I ask this question from an awareness that both are flock guardian breeds, and know little or nothing else about them other than absorbing what I'm being told here). Its difficult for me to compare as Im not that up with the Central Asian but my understanding is that Maremmas are more user friendly for humans. That may be because I know my own breed and Im more comfortable with it but Im sure Lilli would be able to fill in the gaps with the CA. I think the main difference between Maremma and Central Asian (apart from size and structure although this ties in with their respective psyches) is the Maremma prevents physical confrontation, whereas the Central Asian, thrives on it. By thrive, I mean the dogs physicality and mentality is specialised into defending and therefore protecting, whatever exists within its territory. Both Maremma and Central Asian are thinkers, and their gentle demeanor and devotion to their human and animal family often belie thri capabilities. Yes the Maremma is more user friendly, but the Central Asian is more people orientated, more emotional than Maremma or Anatolian. I dont recommend Central Asian for first time LGD utilisation, as it can be a steep learning curve and believe the Maremma is better suited to the general. The Central Asian however is without equal as the first line of defence against feral dogs, in the Australian context. From what you have written, I think the Maremma is better suited Edited May 30, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdogg Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Where would one find genuine Working maremma's? Ive been told by a few property owners that you really have to do your homework to get a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furball Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 They bark a lot!! I'm on another forum and suburban people are often complaining about how much their Maremma is barking. I don't think they even realised that that's what they do. I'd be curious how they go in suburbia too Steve?. There is now way I could have Snowy in town, she is a very dedicated protector and barks loads. I actually live in an apartment in inner Sydney with my Maremma and like Steve said they cope fine as long as they live with the family. Our girl is a little older (she will be turning 9 this year) she goes for 2 30 mins walks a day, stays indoors all day while we r at work and sleeps at the foot of our bed at night. The only time she barks is when someone buzzes our apartment or knock on our door and she is easily settled once she has visual of the visitor and has a sniff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula- Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Steve, with the pups you have leaving for other types of working homes, are you able to start bonding with other animals at your place or do they just start a bit later? When we move, we're thinking about setting up a big orchard with some geese/ducks, and thinking a maremma might suit. We're going to have llamas and alpacas, but don't want them in the orchard as they'll strip the trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Where would one find genuine Working maremma's? Ive been told by a few property owners that you really have to do your homework to get a good one. Ive got genuine working Maremmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Steve, with the pups you have leaving for other types of working homes, are you able to start bonding with other animals at your place or do they just start a bit later? When we move, we're thinking about setting up a big orchard with some geese/ducks, and thinking a maremma might suit. We're going to have llamas and alpacas, but don't want them in the orchard as they'll strip the trees Sometimes we can start them off with other animals depending on whats here but this time its only sheep. The best time to start bonding them is about age 6 weeks to 12 weeks. They do O.K. after that but in my experience it takes a lot longer to get the bonding bit down if you leave it much later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula- Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumer Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 My inlaws have run sheep for generations, so I was talking to my brother in law who is a vertebrate pest researcher at the NSW Department of Primary Industries, and he suggested a couple of links that may be of interest: http://www.feral.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Guardian-Dogs-web.pdf http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/pests-weeds/vertebrate-pests#Foxes-and-wild-dogs He also added that, for what it's worth, no one has done a really good cost-benefit analysis of LGDs as yet, not to say that they aren't worthwhile. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypaws Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Remarkable how adaptive they can be .. I now have the general idea ! You can see how they don't suit everyone .. But maybe one day So out of interest is there anything they don't look after or struggle with bonding ( maybe cats ? ) quote name='Steve' timestamp='1306714543' post='5333050'] They are O.K. in town if they are living as if they are humans.If they are with the family [ herd] all the time its no big deal and they dont bark if they sleep inside .We have lots of them in pet homes in suburbia but if you leave them outside spearate to the family they bark.Thats how they work. My house Maremmas are with me all day and when I open the door to go to the clothes line they run ahead of me and Yell "everything back off - here comes Mum" only for a second till I get there then they watch me hang the washing out. Meeting their needs is giving them something to look after .We have one placed with an autistic boy who rarely leaves the house.When the dog first went in the kid was horrible to it .the dog did its stuff and now the dog is the only thing the kids communicates with.The dog is by his side 24 hours a day and goes outside to play only when the boy does .Same thing the dog runs ahead as he is coming out the door goes bark bark get off the property here comes the kid and then stays close sniffing and weeing etc but within a few minutes back with the kid getting a hug. While the kid is on the trampoline or the swings the dog sun bakes. Where you get a problem in suburbia is when you leave them in a back yard with no work. If you have a family - like mine where someone is always with the dog and the dog can live truly as a human rather than a dog there isnt a problem. But when you throw it outside of an evening it will need to shout at anything or any sound that may mean the family would be threatened. One big difference for me was when I had the dog inside and I heard a noise outside - got a bit worried about it so thought I'd let the dog out to scare what ever it was off as she had obviously heard the sound too. I opened the door " Go on then go out and see what the noise is " Nup " Go on go out and check it out for me . 'Nup and she moved to the bedroom - you go out if you want Mum and if anything gets past you Ive got the kids covered" She sat down just inside the boys doorway. Same as she would if it were sheep. Dont leave the animals you are guarding when there is a threat in case the predator gets them while you are not watching. Now I have 2 inside one stays with the kids and the other goes out. 2 Maremmas in a paddock one stays with the sheep and the other chases em off .One Maremma in a paddock moves the sheep to a coner for safety and puts themselves between the threat and the animal. They yell and do scary things to try to talk the predator out of coming too close because taking time out to kill it means the predators mate might slip in the back door. If you understand the breed and forget all the nornal stuff about exercise, training and behaviour and do it all with knowledge of the breed as a difference to dog - its great . If I yell shuddup they think Im barking and upset so they bark more, If I say calmly "its O.K. mate' they shuddup! Within an enclosed area - my home they have perfect manners and do all I ask of them - trained , come, sit etc but when they are turned on and percieve a threat that goes right out the window. Over the last 19 or 20 years Ive owned them Ive learned to trust them and if I respect the breed and what they were bred to do its easy. They make you think they are so in love with you and are so dependent on you but its an illusion I think. For them we are just a job just as the sheep are and its me who has come to trust them and love them to bits just as the sheep do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Steve, have you ever had any issues with them protecting people or stock inappropriately? How would you manage the situation if (for example) you needed to let someone in the house for some reason, but your LGD considered them to be a threat? Fascinating thread, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdogg Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Would a maremma alter the way cattle / sheep would graze. Say if i have 100 steers in one paddock.. On any given day the social structure of those 100 head will be all over the place.. There would be at least 3 mobs if not more. 30 odd here, 20 there, 5 or 6 somewhere else etc etc.. How do the maremmas work that sort of scenario? Also, if i have mobs of cattle next to each other (neighbouring paddocks) how does that fit in? Genuine responses please.. Dont want to sound rude but dont want info off a website or a show breeder that doesnt have them working in an extensive situation. I am looking at solutions to feral animals and trespassers. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 What would be the difference in a Anatolian shepherd and a maremma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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