Dog In Pain!

[Sunnyflower]

My Cavalier Oscar has Syringomyelia and it was thanks to DOL and a thread about it back in October that I first learnt of it and wondered if he had it. With the help of the lovely Jed & NSW Cavalier Club we got to work only to discover that Oscar has this horrible disease and Georgina Child has been working with my vet and for the past near 2 weeks Oscar has been on medication to hopefully stop the pain. My vet made it pretty clear to me that if it didn't work than there was one other course of medication and if that failed I would have to seriously consider saying good bye. Oscar is only 3 on the 5th July so this is hard.

He is on 3 different medications 3 times a day - A Diruetic, Anti Inflem & a Neurological one. They were kicked of as injections so for the first few days EVERYTHING disappeared, now he is having his scratching episodes which means he is in pain, he is panting heavily all the time again, whimpers or yelps not everytime but a lot of the time we pat him and the collar, harness & rug can't be worn again because it causes pain/irritates so sets it of. It's not as often or as frequent as it was before the meds but it is certainly there still and noticeable and I would hope with 3 different types of meds so frequently there wouldn't be any.

My question is when do YOU feel it is time to give them their wings when there is pain involved? I understand this is a personal decision and I feel I am needing to ask myself if I need to make the hard decision as he is clearly in pain but it is not every second of the day. I am confused if I am jumping the gun or I am being ignorant.

I would like to hear some other peoples experiences and or thoughts.

Thank you in advanced.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Sunnyflower

[poodlefan]

I have yet to have to have a dog PTS but for me it would come down to quality of life.

If my dog was in pain and there appeared to be no prospect of relief in sight I would give him his wings.

I am sorry to hear about Oscar. He's so young for you to have to be making such a hard decision.

[Sunnyflower]

I have yet to have to have a dog PTS but for me it would come down to quality of life.

If my dog was in pain and there appeared to be no prospect of relief in sight I would give him his wings.

I am sorry to hear about Oscar. He's so young for you to have to be making such a hard decision.

I was hoping you would come in PF. Your answers are always very logical and straight to the point. I know it's my decision at the end of the day but it does help to hear that I am not thinking irrationally.

He is on the 3 most recommended medications and they cost a truck load but I had to try - I can only hope the other one works better but they really did say it was a fourth option, however it may just work for him. I'll speak with the vet and see what he thinks but I really do feel prescribe the same thing for another month after this is a waste of time as it's not doing a lot.

[OSoSwift]

I agree with PF.

If he is showing signs of pain and he cannot be fixed or controlled then for me that is the line.

Him being so young will be making this extremely difficult for you, it is bad enough when they are old, but having to make the decision with a young dog is much harder.

Is he eating well, does he still seem to enjoy life as in playing, wanting to explore, go for short walks etc??

If not to me that would also be a sign. Quality not quantity is important.

Also I personally would prefer to do it before I get to thinking I have left a day (or more) later than I should have.

At the end of the day only you can draw your line. You will make the right decision for you and your dog because you love him and want the best for him. It is not an easy decision I have also had to make a decision to euthanase a 3 yo old dog and it was a terrible time.

Lots of hugs from us

[casowner]

SF I was just in the shower having a cry about this very subject. My little pom cross has congenital heart failure and has always had a heart murmur. She started panting heavily about a year ago and has been on VetAce, flusapex and Vetmedin ever since and has been quite good. She took a downward slide a few weeks ago and after blood tests her medication was varied and she picked up. I noticed she has been stumbling lately and cut her nails but she still does it on ocassion. She has always been happy to stay under my bed with her stash of toys and whatever else she has stolen but the past few weeks she is like a shadow. She seems happy and loves baby Luke and even now sits next to Ben for cuddles for the first time ever but I just laid on the floor with her and as soon as I touched her belly she squeaked. I know the time is coming and she is only eleven and it is so painful especially after losing Jake but I don't want her to suffer as she deserves more than that. If she is in pain I am being selfish as I want her to stay for me to ease my pain and that is just wrong. I am taking her back to the vet to see what she says but I think I need to focus on her behaviour and actions rather than pretending not to see them. I think unless you are in the position it is hard to say what we would really do as sometimes I think we see what we want to see

You have my full sympathy and I know how hard it must be for you at this time, take care

[Sunnyflower]

I agree with PF.

If he is showing signs of pain and he cannot be fixed or controlled then for me that is the line.

Him being so young will be making this extremely difficult for you, it is bad enough when they are old, but having to make the decision with a young dog is much harder.

Is he eating well, does he still seem to enjoy life as in playing, wanting to explore, go for short walks etc??

If not to me that would also be a sign. Quality not quantity is important.

Also I personally would prefer to do it before I get to thinking I have left a day (or more) later than I should have.

At the end of the day only you can draw your line. You will make the right decision for you and your dog because you love him and want the best for him. It is not an easy decision I have also had to make a decision to euthanase a 3 yo old dog and it was a terrible time.

Lots of hugs from us

He is showing signs of pain and we tried fixing it with the meds but the initial shock stopped it but after a few days it's all coming back. Marcus I think sometimes is a bit firm with him and he whimpers but I patted him last night and he gave a yelp so I realised Marcus actually hasn't been too firm, it's just him.

He is eating very well, since being desexed at the beginning of the year he has been a gutso and he LOVES going for walks however I can't walk him anymore as he cannot wear a collar or harness as it causes him pain. We walk and a usual 10 min walk takes 40 because he is flopping to the ground scratching at his side which is what they do to try and stop the pain. As much as he would love to go it's easier and kinder not to.

I've noticed he is becoming timid of Marcus and a bit of me. He has never had a bad finger put on him but it's like he has become a real sook and is constantly looking sad. I really have to work to get him all happy and I am shocked when I see him having a little play but it only lasts for so long before he is back flopped on the ground looking like he is sad. Breaks my heart because I just wish he could tell me. I'm not sure if he is just being a sook looking for attention or if it is something more.

SF I was just in the shower having a cry about this very subject. My little pom cross has congenital heart failure and has always had a heart murmur. She started panting heavily about a year ago and has been on VetAce, flusapex and Vetmedin ever since and has been quite good. She took a downward slide a few weeks ago and after blood tests her medication was varied and she picked up. I noticed she has been stumbling lately and cut her nails but she still does it on ocassion. She has always been happy to stay under my bed with her stash of toys and whatever else she has stolen but the past few weeks she is like a shadow. She seems happy and loves baby Luke and even now sits next to Ben for cuddles for the first time ever but I just laid on the floor with her and as soon as I touched her belly she squeaked. I know the time is coming and she is only eleven and it is so painful especially after losing Jake but I don't want her to suffer as she deserves more than that. If she is in pain I am being selfish as I want her to stay for me to ease my pain and that is just wrong. I am taking her back to the vet to see what she says but I think I need to focus on her behaviour and actions rather than pretending not to see them. I think unless you are in the position it is hard to say what we would really do as sometimes I think we see what we want to see

You have my full sympathy and I know how hard it must be for you at this time, take care

I'm so so sorry to hear this casowner. I know you only lost Jake not that long ago and now your other little Princess.

My fiancee keeps telling me I can't ignore it and I don't FEEL I am ignoring it but maybe I am without knowing. I don't want to lose him and I depend on him quite heavily and I always looked forward to having him as my kids dog because he is so wonderful with children and I just wanted to see my boy with my bub. I keep saying I can't bear the thought of giving him his wings whilst I am pregnant but that really is selfish isn't it? I'm definitely seeing what I want to see and I think that's only because it's being pointed out now.

[OSoSwift]

You are not being selfish SF, It is really hard anyway, but the extra hormones when pregnant make it harder. I had to make the decision to euth my 8 and a half year old Dobe who had dilated cardio myopathy 7 weeks before the birth of my second child. It does put a whole different spin on things.

He may becoming "timid" or appearing to as while he would love the interaction, when you pat him it hurts, so he is probably shying away from the contact a little to avoid discomfort or pain. I wouldn't think he is just being a sook, if he has only started to show these signs recently I wouldn't just say he is being a sook. It might be exaserbated by him picking up on your stress at his situation.

[sas]

For me I would define what the dog considers quality of life i.e. the dog enjoys and looks forward to its walks, can toilet by itself, is happy majority of the time and is not in pain the majority of the time (can be managed by drugs etc).

When the dog is no longer able to have that I would struggle but would most likely say good bye.

[Missymoo]

so sad, so sorry for you and yourdear little pup, xo

[W Sibs]

[Rebanne]

I agree with PF.

If he is showing signs of pain and he cannot be fixed or controlled then for me that is the line.

Also I personally would prefer to do it before I get to thinking I have left a day (or more) later than I should have.

agree with both. I too would opt for sooner rather then later.

Hugs, it's not an easy time anytime but when they are still young, it's even harder

[Melbomb]

For me I would define what the dog considers quality of life i.e. the dog enjoys and looks forward to its walks, can toilet by itself, is happy majority of the time and is not in pain the majority of the time (can be managed by drugs etc).

When the dog is no longer able to have that I would struggle but would most likely say good bye.

I agree completely with this. It's a decision that only you can make and although everyone always has an opinion on these kinds of things, you know your dog better than anyone.

I'm very sorry to hear this SF.

[Sunnyflower]

You are not being selfish SF, It is really hard anyway, but the extra hormones when pregnant make it harder. I had to make the decision to euth my 8 and a half year old Dobe who had dilated cardio myopathy 7 weeks before the birth of my second child. It does put a whole different spin on things.

He may becoming "timid" or appearing to as while he would love the interaction, when you pat him it hurts, so he is probably shying away from the contact a little to avoid discomfort or pain. I wouldn't think he is just being a sook, if he has only started to show these signs recently I wouldn't just say he is being a sook. It might be exaserbated by him picking up on your stress at his situation.

Thank you OS. I was thinking he was only becoming timid because of him knowing it's going to hurt but again, tried to believe otherwise. Gosh - That must have been so hard to say good bye right before bub. I know I will survive but I really don't want my heart ripped out!

I think I know what I have to do but I am in denial. When I am around him I do not think about it or let it bother me, it was right before we started the meds because I knew without them it was being cruel keeping him here. I think I need to call my vet and have an honest chat with him. It's easy to say it and sound strong but I have been looking at the phone all day but haven't managed to pick it up yet.

For me I would define what the dog considers quality of life i.e. the dog enjoys and looks forward to its walks, can toilet by itself, is happy majority of the time and is not in pain the majority of the time (can be managed by drugs etc).

When the dog is no longer able to have that I would struggle but would most likely say good bye.

hmmm Thank you MEH. These answers are making me ask myself the tough questions which is what I wanted because I need them. I can't hear it from my fiancee because he doesn't love animals the way I do so I feel like he doesn't understand. As he says though - "He's saying it as he see's it".

He LOVES his walks however can't enjoy them too much whilst being in pain, so we don't go on them. He can toilet on his own but due to diuretics he is having to be kept outside a lot more because he cann't hold his bladder. The first night he wet himself 3 times. He is getting better but still a risk. I was hoping the drugs would work but they aren't working enough.

[poodlefan]

When my poodle Darcy was having spinal issues 2 years ago, he was very heavily medicated to manage his pain.

He simply wasn't himself at that time. Gone was my cheeky boy that has a little poodle strut - he was miserable and withdrawn.

Chances are those problems will reoccur as he ages and I've thought through what I'll be prepared to put him through in terms of managing the issue. If it gets to the point where a couple of periods of rest and medication fail to control the problem, I will give him his wings. If he cannot be "himself" and happy, I think I owe it to him to free him of pain.

Its the last gift we can give a much loved dog. Sadly, for some dogs that gift must be given early but I would feel I owe it to them not to let them suffer. It may be 'goodbye' but it can also be freedom from suffering.

Its never easy and like you Sunnyflower, I have thought it through before it needed to be done. For me, that will make the final decision easier.

[Sunnyflower]

so sad, so sorry for you and yourdear little pup, xo

Thank you Missymoo xx

Thank you CW EW xx

I agree with PF.

If he is showing signs of pain and he cannot be fixed or controlled then for me that is the line.

Also I personally would prefer to do it before I get to thinking I have left a day (or more) later than I should have.

agree with both. I too would opt for sooner rather then later.

Hugs, it's not an easy time anytime but when they are still young, it's even harder

Thank you Rebanne. I know in my heart what the right thing is to do but I just wish he could talk and say it's really bad or it's not that bad Mum.

For me I would define what the dog considers quality of life i.e. the dog enjoys and looks forward to its walks, can toilet by itself, is happy majority of the time and is not in pain the majority of the time (can be managed by drugs etc).

When the dog is no longer able to have that I would struggle but would most likely say good bye.

I agree completely with this. It's a decision that only you can make and although everyone always has an opinion on these kinds of things, you know your dog better than anyone.

I'm very sorry to hear this SF.

Thank you MB. I hate having to be the one to make this decision and I don't want to and as we all know it is easier sad than done. I feel so cruel even thinking about it let alone considering the fact I am actually being cruel keeping him in this pain!

[Sunnyflower]

When my poodle Darcy was having spinal issues 2 years ago, he was very heavily medicated to manage his pain.

He simply wasn't himself at that time. Gone was my cheeky boy that has a little poodle strut - he was miserable and withdrawn.

Chances are those problems will reoccur as he ages and I've thought through what I'll be prepared to put him through in terms of managing the issue. If it gets to the point where a couple of periods of rest and medication fail to control the problem, I will give him his wings. If he cannot be "himself" and happy, I think I owe it to him to free him of pain.

Its the last gift we can give a much loved dog. Sadly, for some dogs that gift must be given early but I would feel I owe it to them not to let them suffer. It may be 'goodbye' but it can also be freedom from suffering.

Its never easy and like you Sunnyflower, I have thought it through before it needed to be done. For me, that will make the final decision easier.

I am really struggling to hold back the tears! Everything you write of your Darcy is Oscar. He has spinal, neck and brain pain (Constant migraines they described it)! I have lost my little cheeky boy to a boy who is completely withdrawn and it's the odd occassion I am seeing him be Oscar. My crazy little deviat who loved to wrestle with the cat and play with me is no longer there, the rare occassion he will pop up and it shocks the socks off me but it only lasts for about 3 - 5 minutes and the flop on the ground again.

I understand the concept of it being the kindest thing I can do, I am just really struggling to see it that way.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Sunnyflower

[W Sibs]

Charlie sometimes squeals now if he thinks that something can hurt him... that could just be us walking pass him too closely for his comfort. So I understand about Oscar being timid towards people and how hard that can be.

[Sunnyflower]

Charlie sometimes squeals now if he thinks that something can hurt him... that could just be us walking pass him too closely for his comfort. So I understand about Oscar being timid towards people and how hard that can be.

Sorry to hear the CW EW. How do you find Charlie is the majority of the time?

[Tassie]

SF - I've only had to make the decision for older animals, and goodness knows that was hard enough - can only imagine your situation. You've had some great advice - and agree with the quality of life - good times/bad times analysis. I found that helpful.

A couple more things to consider. A very wise vet on another forum, when going through this same decision for her heart dog, said that she had never had a client say to her that they had acted too early, but had many who regretted that they had left the decision a little late. I've never had a baby, but I know from watching friends with theirs, and now their grandchildren, that tiny people are very, very time-consuming - and so maybe it's worth considering whether if Oscar is still going and still needing lots of your attention and support, you will be able to give him what he needs when baby arrives.

I feel sure that as you love your little man so much, you will make the right decision for him - however much it pains you - and you know that youj have lots of cybersupport on this forum .

[poodlefan]

I am really struggling to hold back the tears! Everything you write of your Darcy is Oscar. He has spinal, neck and brain pain (Constant migraines they described it)! I have lost my little cheeky boy to a boy who is completely withdrawn and it's the odd occassion I am seeing him be Oscar. My crazy little deviat who loved to wrestle with the cat and play with me is no longer there, the rare occassion he will pop up and it shocks the socks off me but it only lasts for about 3 - 5 minutes and the flop on the ground again.

I understand the concept of it being the kindest thing I can do, I am just really struggling to see it that way.

Oh shite, tearing up here too.

All I can say is do it before those glimpses of the dog he used to be fade to nothing. You owe it to both of you to have some last happy moments to hold on to before that final goodbye.

Talk to your vet. Ask about prognosis. Your last hope for improvement hasnt' yet faded but if it does.. you'll know its time.