OSoSwift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Personally I would not take on two pups from a litter and I would not sell litter siblings to the average person. It take a lot more work and you need to work very hard to make sure seperation anxiety issues do not crop up. ALso you need to train them seperately and interact with them seperately to try and ensure that they value you more than the other dog - but sometimes nomatter how hard you try they value the other dogs company more than yours. They can get to maturity and then start fighting, what are you going to do if that happens?? Yes it can happen with two dogs from different litters but is far more likely to happen with litter siblings. Get one puppy, train it then get another puppy 12 to 18 months down the track. You will still have to make sure they are used to being seperate etc but it will be much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Lots of issues to consider and compatability is not the only one that I would be thinking about. The rule of thumb for having a conflict free pack is to avoid having dogs that are very similar in age, size and gender. Having two male littermates is as far from that rule as you can get. The only worse combination I can think of is two female littermates The other thing to consider is how closely these two dogs will bond and the impact of that on your ability to separate and manage them. I think you'd be heading for some issues UNLESS you put a lot of time and effort into training and socialising them separately. Personally I'd not do it and if I were a breeder (which I ain't ;)) I'd not sell two littermates into the one pet home. Your choice but if you decide to take it on, be prepared for a lot of extra work and potential heartache if things don't go to plan. Edited May 25, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVO8Gold Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the response. Firstly I am not new to the doggie world and have owned a variety of dogs including a Golden Retriever, Boxer, Basenji, Cocker Spaniel, Irish Setter and a Dachshund. I have shown dogs and done obedience training in the past. My last few dogs have been rescue animals and the last two in particular had a wide variety of issues especially the GR that had 2 previous owners and had been mistreated badly. We adopted a wreck and after 9 years we cremated a wonderful balanced and loving friend. My wife has had similar experience. I consider both my wife and myself to have strong personalities and I have run businesses with up to 150 direct staff. That said I realise not that if WE go ahead it is certainly going to have its demands. You have certainly opened my eyes to the potential problems and we now realise that if we do go ahead that we will have to be well read on the subject and be tactical in the way we handle this. Thanks for your help. P.S. When we met the dog and bitch for this litter we found them to be extremely well socialised and of excellent temperament. Edited May 25, 2011 by EVO8Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I also wouldn't recommend it. It can be done but if it goes wrong it can do so in spectacular fashion and without warning. I currently have two bitches of a similar age here (definitely not from the same litter) and the HATE each other. They have even smashed a window trying to get to each other. Each is totally fine with all the other dogs, they just hate each other. One is a rescue and the other my own. I am managing it but it is blooming hard work. I don't have kennels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 What are your reasons for wanting to get 2 at the same time?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) I have FIVE intact males. Two are litter brothers,ages 11,10 x 2,7 and 5. These are fairly big dogs,27-40kgs. 24-27 inches at the shoulder Right now they are all asleep on 3 couches as I type this. Never had an issue and never will have. No fights,no grumbling,nu humping,nothing. They all sleep with me on a Super King sized bed for a few hours when I get home from work at 9am,I start work at 1am. They lay all over each other. They all have 1-2 hours of offlead exercise a day,that is the key,tired dogs do not fight. Plus they are all fed in order of hierachy ,they know that order and never try and change it. It's not hard,it's easy,but also this is what I am used to. If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. Edited May 25, 2011 by tomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Breed is a factor, individual differences are a factor, ownership is a factor, socialisation is a factor, training is a factor, and there are a whole bunch of other factors. The odds of having a serious problem are fairly low across the entire population of dogs. Most people with littermates will not have a serious problem, even rank novices, but enough problems occur to recommend against it. The odds increase sharply with pups of the same age, again with pups from the same litter, again same sex, with bitches from the same litter being the highest risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. Really you guarentee it???? How wonderful! Tell that to the people who had litter mate Border Collies. One had a very large rip in his throat stitched back together at 11weeks. They very fine with other dogs and people, just not with each other. One had to be re-homed for his own safety. Yes it can be done and yes breed does play a part, but it needs to be very seriously before going ahead and buying litter mates. In this instance the breed is a reasonably mellow one and the owner does have experience, but you still have the seperation issues to consider and training issues etc. If both of the owners are dog savy and train a dog each then that will help. I have however, seen amany issues between litter siblings and in nearly all cases one has to be rehomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Two males are fine... two puppies of the same age at the same time... madness! Just do a bit of a google and you will see loads of downsides. Any particular reason you want to get two at the same time? Two males aren't always 'fine' and my recommendation is always male/female combination as I feel that's 'safe' for dogs and owner but still not at the same time. Get one now and one when you have raised, bonded and trained the first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I personally dont sell littermates to the same person..its just too much for the average pet owner.. Unless you have eons of time to spend with both pups induvidally I wouldnt recommend it, but each to thier own! Good luck with whatever you do, OH and PHOTOSSSSSS !! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I won't be as rude to you as you were to me. No need to be so sarcastic,is that how you treat people in your normal daily life,with sarcasm and loathing? Yes I can gaurantee it,IF they do what I advised. Dogs work in social order,follow that and you won't have issues. Start it at the youngest age you get the dogs or if introducing older dogs which I have also done . I can bring ANY dog onto my property ,for an afternoon,a weekend or even a month. Scenarios that I have had in the past and nary a sideways look from my boys. If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. Really you guarentee it???? How wonderful! Tell that to the people who had litter mate Border Collies. One had a very large rip in his throat stitched back together at 11weeks. They very fine with other dogs and people, just not with each other. One had to be re-homed for his own safety. Yes it can be done and yes breed does play a part, but it needs to be very seriously before going ahead and buying litter mates. In this instance the breed is a reasonably mellow one and the owner does have experience, but you still have the seperation issues to consider and training issues etc. If both of the owners are dog savy and train a dog each then that will help. I have however, seen amany issues between litter siblings and in nearly all cases one has to be rehomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. I don't think one can guarantee behaviour in dogs who you have never seen, in an environment you don't know ........ , guaranteeing one's own dogs' behaviour is hard enough :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I see your point Persephone and thank you for not being as basic as the other poster. However,I really do think raising dogs is easy. As I said tired dogs and for younger ones,busy dogs won't cause issues if their mental and physical needs are met in other words,that was my point. How else could I bring intact males and females into my home,as well as neutered or speyed and I have done this more than 10 times for varying time periods. Dogs need structure and time,without calling people lazy,I never understand why people ever have issues. Is it because their dogs don't get enough mental and physical stimulation maybe? I walked nearly 20km with mine a few days back,no that is not possible for most people but with a bit of thought their needs can be met in other ways so they don't have the energy to be redirected elsewhere. If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. I don't think one can guarantee behaviour in dogs who you have never seen, in an environment you don't know ........ , guaranteeing one's own dogs' behaviour is hard enough :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I won't be as rude to you as you were to me. No need to be so sarcastic,is that how you treat people in your normal daily life,with sarcasm and loathing? Yes I can gaurantee it,IF they do what I advised. Dogs work in social order,follow that and you won't have issues. Start it at the youngest age you get the dogs or if introducing older dogs which I have also done . I can bring ANY dog onto my property ,for an afternoon,a weekend or even a month. Scenarios that I have had in the past and nary a sideways look from my boys. If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. Really you guarentee it???? How wonderful! Tell that to the people who had litter mate Border Collies. One had a very large rip in his throat stitched back together at 11weeks. They very fine with other dogs and people, just not with each other. One had to be re-homed for his own safety. Yes it can be done and yes breed does play a part, but it needs to be very seriously before going ahead and buying litter mates. In this instance the breed is a reasonably mellow one and the owner does have experience, but you still have the seperation issues to consider and training issues etc. If both of the owners are dog savy and train a dog each then that will help. I have however, seen amany issues between litter siblings and in nearly all cases one has to be rehomed. hahaha that is quite amusing, full of sarcasm and loathing - sarcasm yes, loathing - ummm right I do not know you so how can I loath you. I fail to see how you can guarentee something that you have no idea about. These puppies may just not have the temperments to live togethr and even if people do all the right things it just may not work. I am sorry but you cannot guarentee even IF they follow what you have advised. Personally I have males here that are no issue - not litter siblings, and have had bitches together that hated one another over time, not litter siblings, not the same age. They were fine with any other dog I brought onto the property but not each other. You just cannot guarentee htere will be no issue. Seeing as they are CCR and living with dog savy people I to believe in this particular instance there will most likely not be a problem, but I certainly wouldn't guarentee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes I can gaurantee it,IF they do what I advised. Dogs work in social order,follow that and you won't have issues. Yes, dogs are social animals and social structures that sometimes resemble those of wolves. However, wolves have plenty of problems, amplified greatly in captivity (when they can't leave). Dogs don't tend to form stable packs when left to their own devices, but sometimes they do, it seems to depend on what suits them best for survival. On average, you would expect most dogs to get along pretty well regardless of who eats first, walks through doors first etc Consistency makes life easier and leads to far less tension and uncertainty, but there are definitely people who follow all the "rules" consistently and still have problems. It's difficult to guarantee anything with dogs unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Glad you found it amusing,yes your tone was one of loathing coupled with sarcasm. I have explained my position in my posts clearly,no need to go over it again. I won't be as rude to you as you were to me. No need to be so sarcastic,is that how you treat people in your normal daily life,with sarcasm and loathing? Yes I can gaurantee it,IF they do what I advised. Dogs work in social order,follow that and you won't have issues. Start it at the youngest age you get the dogs or if introducing older dogs which I have also done . I can bring ANY dog onto my property ,for an afternoon,a weekend or even a month. Scenarios that I have had in the past and nary a sideways look from my boys. If you want to get 2 litter brothers,get them,they will let you know who is dominant,reinforce that through feeding order,giving treats order,walking out door order,getting in and out of car order and I gaurantee you won't have a problem. Really you guarentee it???? How wonderful! Tell that to the people who had litter mate Border Collies. One had a very large rip in his throat stitched back together at 11weeks. They very fine with other dogs and people, just not with each other. One had to be re-homed for his own safety. Yes it can be done and yes breed does play a part, but it needs to be very seriously before going ahead and buying litter mates. In this instance the breed is a reasonably mellow one and the owner does have experience, but you still have the seperation issues to consider and training issues etc. If both of the owners are dog savy and train a dog each then that will help. I have however, seen amany issues between litter siblings and in nearly all cases one has to be rehomed. hahaha that is quite amusing, full of sarcasm and loathing - sarcasm yes, loathing - ummm right I do not know you so how can I loath you. I fail to see how you can guarentee something that you have no idea about. These puppies may just not have the temperments to live togethr and even if people do all the right things it just may not work. I am sorry but you cannot guarentee even IF they follow what you have advised. Personally I have males here that are no issue - not litter siblings, and have had bitches together that hated one another over time, not litter siblings, not the same age. They were fine with any other dog I brought onto the property but not each other. You just cannot guarentee htere will be no issue. Seeing as they are CCR and living with dog savy people I to believe in this particular instance there will most likely not be a problem, but I certainly wouldn't guarentee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I am not sure how you can read loathing in a post, but each to their own. I think you are wrong, but that is also my opinion not yours which you are of course, you are allowed to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I agree with you on that. Again though ,wolves would'nt have an issue in captivity if their physical needs were met,they are constrained so they can't fulfill those needs. I still stand by what I said ,I would guarantee if I tired any dogs out even the most aggressive would'nt have the strength to cause problems. On a low exercise day my guys get a minimum of 10km,rain ,hail or shine. Yes I can gaurantee it,IF they do what I advised. Dogs work in social order,follow that and you won't have issues. Yes, dogs are social animals and social structures that sometimes resemble those of wolves. However, wolves have plenty of problems, amplified greatly in captivity (when they can't leave). Dogs don't tend to form stable packs when left to their own devices, but sometimes they do, it seems to depend on what suits them best for survival. On average, you would expect most dogs to get along pretty well regardless of who eats first, walks through doors first etc Consistency makes life easier and leads to far less tension and uncertainty, but there are definitely people who follow all the "rules" consistently and still have problems. It's difficult to guarantee anything with dogs unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 what wolves has to do with someone wanting to purchase litter mates is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Did you read all the posts in context? what wolves has to do with someone wanting to purchase litter mates is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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