Off Leash

[Guest Tess32]

Ok, I have a confession

I have bad off leash phobia!

I really have issues with letting Reilly off the leash. Some of it is justified (he doesn't have a good recall yet) but the rest is just pure phobia type stuff.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get over it?

It started when I first let him off leash at the beach, and he got caught in the water and I had to drag him out.

He's not a clingy dog and he's also a bird chaser, so I always run through worst case scenerios in my head.

Does anyone have an independent dog they have taught a good recall to? Success stories might help

Nat

[dogdayz]

Someone with many years experience of collies told me i have the worst recalling, stubborn, independent minded collie they have ever known , you surely cant be challenging my title.

It takes work and belief, they know when you dont expect them to respond. worst case scenarios, playing with a small shark, running on top of a tiger snake, eating a poisonous fish, yep done all of those by 6 month old.

The main thing is dont let him get away with not coming, dont keep repeating the call. If he doesnt return first time, when you get him back, immediately do 3 or 4 on lead recalls.

[Akitaowner]

im kinda with u on this one sorry - i have had bad experiences that have cost big time my boy is a chaser and v independant and as much as i want to i just have to remember that my breed is not trustworthy when it come to coming back - so he stays on rope 8m of it!!

but on he more helpful side - is there somewhere u can try recalls where he cant actually go anywhere to bad?? what r U actually worried about - the recall? drowning? him killing something like a bird? him wandering off?

if u can find out what UR worrried about it could be easy to alter?! train for....

good luck

[Guest Tess32]

Thanks guys, I dunno why but it's making me anxious in general and he probably picks up on it.

I'm mostly afraid of traffic, and also I am a panicker and if he doesn't come back I will probably just end up in an extreme panic rather than using my head.

For example, our training school is in a big park. It's not enclosed and he could run down to traffic, even though it is unlikely, my head still sees the worst case scenerio.

At the beach, yep, I worry he could get caught in a rip and go too far.

The times he *has* been off leash he does come back (at the beach that time he ran after the birds but then I started walking off and called him and he did run back) but he also plays keep-away sometime.

I think it's mostly an irrational fear on my behalf, and being over protective. Maybe I should just start on long leads and just start by *dropping* the leash?!

dogdayz, do you think collies are naturally good or bad at recalling?

Nat

[dogdayz]

dogdayz, do you think collies are naturally good or bad at recalling?

afraid i would have to say naturally good, hard even to get them to leave your side. Certainly the one i have now is very different to the previous in that way.

If its any reassurance Skye now has very good recall, e.g. i can recall her while her and weim are running away from me to fetch a toy. These days if i let her loose she walks maybe 8ft at most from me and keeps looking up.

i never used a longline on her but did the weim, and still do if somewhere new, they are reassuring even when not necessary.

It's not enclosed and he could run down to traffic, even though it is unlikely, my head still sees the worst case scenerio.

I wouldnt be happy to train recall there. Its bad enough at KCC where its a big space. Though i have noticed most dogs stop to sniff another when they do break. I trained mine in fully fenced areas and only moved to non-fenced when i was sure of their responding.

he also plays keep-away sometime

The weim did this for a while. However the important thing to note is that they only allow enough distance for you to grab at them. They never learn to allow for the trailing lead. As i said before when you get hold of him, immediately do some on lead recalls to enforce it.

Remember collies are very intelligent easy-learners so they can be trained easily, pick your method and make it work. read to many books, get too many opinions and the dog gets confused when every week you try something new.

[Guest Tess32]

Thanks dogdayz. It's nice to know I'm not being *too* paranoid by not letting him off at the park.

The second collie I am getting is clingy so I am hoping she will also help ease my nerves.

At the moment I am still practicing in the backyard (it's a big yard, about 50 feet), so I think I will get a long line and practice some on lead recalls at the small park near the house.

The closest enclosed area is probably KCC I think, so I will see how big that is on Sunday and maybe will have to go there to practice too.

He's a smart boy, but independent and slightly reactive, so I think I need him to mature a bit and me to calm down a bit. And your're right, I have read so many books I don't even know where to start anymore

Nat

[dogdayz]

The closest enclosed area is probably KCC I think, so I will see how big that is on Sunday and maybe will have to go there to practice too.

Its your dog and his safety is your concern, if your not comfortable then dont let him loose. I refused to do off-lead recall at KCC training on sunday because i was not happy my weim was concentrating enough by that stage of the lesson (he had fallen in love with a dobiebitch who could bounce as high as him, and spin as fast), and i wasnt going to give him opportunity to not recall, then reward himself running loose.

Southerns training ground is enclosed i believe. I would of thought if you joined you can use their ground at anytime, not necessary to attend their training sessions?

KCC enclosed area is too big for off-lead training but fine on a long line.

If you bring a melways on sunday i will show you a good beach you can train at with little chance of distraction and no traffic.

Edited February 22, 2005 by dogdayz

[Axel]

I was always scared to let Axel off leash.. I always thought he would run away or take off after something and never come back..

but someone talked me into taking him offleash one day :D

and to be honest.. he doesnt have much recall at all, and once under distraction 'come' means nothing and he doesnt listen. We are working on this problem, however when he is offleash and he goes to chase something, I give him the 'come' comand (which works when not under distraction) and if it doesnt work the first time, i simply turn around and walk in the oposite direction, ignoring him completely, giving him the feeling im walking off without him.. Or sometimes i run in the oposite direction, this seems to work faster.

it works everytime, he comes running back after me. When walking him offleash

(bush walks, hiking etc..) He never gets too far ahead and when he does realise hes out of sight, he comes back and checks in with me. - this is something he did naturally on his own.

having said all this, i dont take him to places where there is alot of people and have him offleash, nor do i have him offleash near things that are dangerous for a dog who doesnt have good recall (ie: roads, busy dog parks) but there is plenty of places around which are quiet, big and fun for dogs where you can go and have them offlead and do a bit of recall training at.

Like i said i am currently working on his recall with a trainer and i never let him offleash where it is unsafe for a dog who doesnt have great recall under distraction. Axel has been well socialised as a puppy and he pretty much comes everywhere with me, so not many situations are new to him or take him by suprise which i think helps a bit.

Not long ago my boyfriend and i were walking him offleash at a HUGE park and a guy rode through the park on a push bike (something you wouldnt expect- someone riding a push bike across a football field -on the grass at 7:30pm), I didnt see him till Axel had already started running off toward him. He wasnt running in the sense of trying to catch the bike, i think he was just trying to 'chase' the bike off. because he wasnt running full pelt and he was stopping and starting. Both myself and my boyfriend tried calling him back but he wasnt listening, so i started running in the oposite direction. Boyfriend stood still in middle of park. Axel spun around and started running toward me as fast as i have ever seen him run before. I stopped, he kept coming straight into me! but he didnt leave my side for the rest of the time we were there (about 1 hour)...

Anyway thats just my story and experiences with offleash.... Good Luck with it all

[Toohey]

Don't know if this will help, but my boy is a mad bird chaser and will hear nothing else when he spots his favourite ducks at the local off leash park. Fortunately our park is massive and fenced and a long way from roads, so worst case scenario for me so far has been having to get wet to drag him out of the creek.

Although, the beach is another story and he ain't going off lead again there!Swimming in the ocean in 8degree temperature to retrieve seagull crazed dog is not much fun!!!

His favourite birds used to be swallows and when he was younger and more energetic, he would chase them in big wide circles until the cows came home, and I could never catch him as he would do a runner when I got close.

You can see the brain ticking over. "Am I far enough away from her to get away with it? Or will she catch me?"

I put him on a 12 metre nylon string and let him chase them, and then called and reeled him in, until he eventually started realising I could reach him, and he started coming. Haven't had a problem with calling him away from swallows since.

This doesn't work with ducks however. He finds a duck in the creek and tells Skye about it and all you hear is the pair of them whoopeeing and yahooing off into the distance!! Duck is sky high by this stage, mind you.

He is however, dependant on Mum, and I only have to keep walking and he will look up from whatever he is doing and have a little panic and run after me.

Funniest thing is hiding behind a tree and sneaking a look and seeing the panic and the mad bolt with his nose on the ground to find me!!!

Dunno Tess, lots of hard work, which I imagine you already do, and a safe practise area

[aatainc]

haha toohey -Dexter is exactly the same. Has a really brilliant recall 99% of the time - and will do it around native birds either flying or on the ground no probs - but if there's a pigeon - see ya later! There's no way he comes back when there's a pigeon. He just sits there and stares at it endlessly - if it breaks, he chases it. Then sits there staring at where he last saw it. Idiot.

Gosh, I love him.

[yogibear]

The herding area at Kcc is a great size for giving dogs safe exercise without worying about them getting into something dangerous

As for beaches if you dont mind mozzies cannons creek is good has a hig lciff face on one side and there are only a couple of spots where there are stairs

yb

[dogdayz]

As for beaches if you dont mind mozzies cannons creek is good has a hig lciff face on one side and there are only a couple of spots where there are stairs

and they are particulalry vicious down there this week.

[Toohey]

and they are particulalry vicious down there this week.

They are at our park as well. Just the last few days, bloody great mutant mozzies that can bite through fabric

[Guest Tess32]

Ah ok, I wasn't sure how big it was. At least it *is* gated and Reilly can play happily and safely on Sunday. He will love it.

I'm still a member of southern actually but I totally forgot about them so I can always use there to practice when I feel ready.

Thanks everyone...I think I just haven't done enough practice to feel ready for it all yet, hopefully as *his* training increases so will my confidence.

Nat

[yogibear]

hi Nat

Whats on at kcc on sunday was planning to go there

yb

[Guest Tess32]

DOL meetup in the enclosed area

Nat

[m-j]

He's not a clingy dog and he's also a bird chaser, so I always run through worst case scenerios in my head.

Hi

The thing I have found the best way to get a reasonably consistent off lead recall is reward with high powered rewards nearly every time.

I got my Kelpie in Oct she has a reasonably high prey drive, and she was happy to chase anything that ran or flew, totally oblivious to our attemps to catch her (calling was useless she wasn't hearing), this is in the back yard:) I started to do some recall training gradually building on distractions. On a walk yesterday she came across some running sheep, Roxie took off after them and on one call she stopped so fast her bum came up in the air, she spun on the spot and came back to me, needless to say we had a party, then she turned around spotted a calf and looked at it then looked at me I rewarded then off we went without a backward glance from Roxie. That was a major stepping stone for her I hope it keeps going as we have stock all around here.

Roxie isn't a clingy dog but is very willing to work so is responsive to most cues, except around stock, normally. Up until yesterday she hadn't been put in a position where she could actually chase stock I had only done work on the other side of fences from the animals. I'm so glad I did that work cos those animals were a surprise normally there isn't stock there, so yes you are right to be thinking of worst case senarios and training/managing them because you just never know when they may happen........that's Murphy's Law isn't it?)

cheers

M-J

[ninaandted]

Hi Nat,

I think I probably get just as stressed as you about this - so thanks for posting the topic and thanks everyone for replying.

I find it a very fraught activity as well because everyone, including our vet, feels it their duty to recommend "off-lead" activities and tell me that we should take Nina and Ted off to do these things and they think that I'm being paranoid about it all that that things will be "alright". Having witnessed two dogs being run over I know that things are not always "alright".

We are going to keep up recall training and I think that will help with my confidence but like you I am really picky about the safe areas. living in a place where half the population walks their dogs off lead in the street also doesn't help!!! i think they are mad to do it and only two of those people do I feel any trust that they actually have any kind of real recall working!

good luck with everything!

[Guest Tess32]

I'm glad there is someone else like me!

Nat

[maxi]

Tess32

My Max is EXACTLY the same - she comes when called...sometimes - depends what's distracting her.

I've done all the exercises/training with increasing her distraction/time slowly and in a class situation or home situation she's ok - but in 'the wild'....

I get anxious somethimes too! It's a pain - sometimes i'd love to let her run free (takes a bit of pressure off the 90+ min walking some days) but then I get too nervous and keep her on.

Worst part is the second she's on a long lead - she totally strangles herself and I end up with a choking dog!!

K.C.C should be a laugh on sunday with our two there!!!

Nat (#2)

Edited February 23, 2005 by maxi