Really Annoyed

[Remarkabull]

Ok, so my very good friend lives in a house with a couple of other people (we all work at the same place so know each other pretty well) and one of them yesterday put a pic of a puppy on FB asking what people thought. I immediately felt sick and hoped that they didn't buy this puppy (they are a young couple with 2 kids, 1 is about 3 years old and the other is a newborn. They can not even afford a car atm and have only recently purchased a cot for the baby so it doesn't have to sleep in a pram anymore!) Anyway I called my friend that lives with them and she is fuming as well. They owe her money for the bond on the house they live in and are still $600 behind in rent. The 3 year old id a feral kid and I fear for the life of the puppy while it is small and then for her life once it grows up as she has never been taught how to behave around dogs and is rough and full on with them.

I have just had a look again on FB and apparently the pup is 'Red Alaskan Malamute x Pure bred White Swiss Shepherd'. The pup is a female and is costing them $700.

Please can anyone give me info on either of these breeds so I can at least try and talk them out of it by telling them as many of the 'bad' points of these 2 breeds as possible. For example, they are on a 5 acre block which is fenced but the fence is only 1200 high the whole way around and it is in a rural area with cattle, sheep, chooks and other dogs and cats all around them, so are either of these breeds fence jumpers and are they likely to want to attack and kill stock etc?

[Guest english.ivy]

Gosh, I hope they don't end up getting the pup, for the pups sake!

[SnoPaws]

We had a mal growing up, gorgeous girl, used to scale our 2 metre fences and sit on the top like a cat

[jacqui835]

Wow this sounds like a pretty terrible situation. I have seen the advertisements for these dogs, and seen pictures of the parents, and nothing about it looks very good. They claim that they are deliberately breeding this mix for loyalty and intelligence, but the fact is what they're creating imo is a dog that may or may not be intelligent, but that is definitely going to be dominant (as both sheperds and malamutes are) and may or may not be independent. Both breeds require a decent amount of training and socialisation - as they are both inclined towards aggression and distrust of strangers.

Malamutes are not known for being a particularly tolerant breed, and have a tendency to hunt and kill smaller animals. They also roam if they can, and can easily climb or dig under most fences. They are intelligent, but don't feature often in obedience competitions because they can be obstinate and free-spirited.

Shepherds can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, and will often happily assume 'top dog' if no-one else does.

Both breeds are prone to similar problems in that as large breeds, they should have their hips and elbows tested etc - so there won't be any hybrid vigour.

If you see the photos of the parents, the white shepherd is a mangy yellowish thing and the malamute I couldn't pick for a purebred. $700 seems really unreasonable price for unregistered animals without any health testing. To me it seems they were able to obtain these animals because they were pet quality and unfit for breeding.

I think I should note at this point that I am an owner of one of these breeds and a lover of both.

[Leelaa17]

Wow this sounds like a pretty terrible situation. I have seen the advertisements for these dogs, and seen pictures of the parents, and nothing about it looks very good. They claim that they are deliberately breeding this mix for loyalty and intelligence, but the fact is what they're creating imo is a dog that may or may not be intelligent, but that is definitely going to be dominant (as both sheperds and malamutes are) and may or may not be independent. Both breeds require a decent amount of training and socialisation - as they are both inclined towards aggression and distrust of strangers.

completely agree with the dominant part. and in having a two shepherds - one is extremely independent, the other is the complete opposite... and BOTH of them trust later, if that makes sense. They use caution first, THEN learn to trust someone... neither of them have EVER immediately trusted someone... this could cause problems if your friends have a lot of friends coming and going.

Malamutes are not known for being a particularly tolerant breed, and have a tendency to hunt and kill smaller animals. They also roam if they can, and can easily climb or dig under most fences. They are intelligent, but don't feature often in obedience competitions because they can be obstinate and free-spirited.

shepherds are the same. max has killed COUNTLESS (and I mean so many I cant count) birds, he also killed one of my rabbits. he LOVES the chase and he has gone after a horse before (in which he almost got killed). He is very much a herder, such as all, or at least a lot, of shepherds.

also, they are VERY good climbers, jumpers, diggers, destroyers ;) when bored... if they can't give it a lot of attention and/or entertainment then they can assume it is going to rip clothes off the line, dig etc

Shepherds can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, and will often happily assume 'top dog' if no-one else does.

absolutely. I am sorry to say that I am CONSTANTLY teaching max and jenna that I AM BOSS. not them! lol I have gone to trainers and behaviourists etc to learn how to do this and I am getting better but it takes WORK. if they are not willing to WORK with the dog to make it a sensible and happy dog then they SHOUDL NOT HAVE IT. shepherds take WORK...

Both breeds are prone to similar problems in that as large breeds, they should have their hips and elbows tested etc - so there won't be any hybrid vigour.

If you see the photos of the parents, the white shepherd is a mangy yellowish thing and the malamute I couldn't pick for a purebred. $700 seems really unreasonable price for unregistered animals without any health testing. To me it seems they were able to obtain these animals because they were pet quality and unfit for breeding.

I think I should note at this point that I am an owner of one of these breeds and a lover of both.

agreed again. please, try everything you can to steer them clear of this kind of dog... I am in serious worry for the poor animal as you said the 3yo is feral... good luck!!

[Fatsofatsoman]

on another note - poor kid.

[Leelaa17]

Wow this sounds like a pretty terrible situation. I have seen the advertisements for these dogs, and seen pictures of the parents, and nothing about it looks very good. They claim that they are deliberately breeding this mix for loyalty and intelligence, but the fact is what they're creating imo is a dog that may or may not be intelligent, but that is definitely going to be dominant (as both sheperds and malamutes are) and may or may not be independent. Both breeds require a decent amount of training and socialisation - as they are both inclined towards aggression and distrust of strangers.

completely agree with the dominant part. and in having a two shepherds - one is extremely independent, the other is the complete opposite... and BOTH of them trust later, if that makes sense. They use caution first, THEN learn to trust someone... neither of them have EVER immediately trusted someone... this could cause problems if your friends have a lot of friends coming and going.

Malamutes are not known for being a particularly tolerant breed, and have a tendency to hunt and kill smaller animals. They also roam if they can, and can easily climb or dig under most fences. They are intelligent, but don't feature often in obedience competitions because they can be obstinate and free-spirited.

shepherds are the same. max has killed COUNTLESS (and I mean so many I cant count) birds, he also killed one of my rabbits. he LOVES the chase and he has gone after a horse before (in which he almost got killed). He is very much a herder, such as all, or at least a lot, of shepherds.

also, they are VERY good climbers, jumpers, diggers, destroyers ;) when bored... if they can't give it a lot of attention and/or entertainment then they can assume it is going to rip clothes off the line, dig etc

Shepherds can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, and will often happily assume 'top dog' if no-one else does.

absolutely. I am sorry to say that I am CONSTANTLY teaching max and jenna that I AM BOSS. not them! lol I have gone to trainers and behaviourists etc to learn how to do this and I am getting better but it takes WORK. if they are not willing to WORK with the dog to make it a sensible and happy dog then they SHOUDL NOT HAVE IT. shepherds take WORK...

Both breeds are prone to similar problems in that as large breeds, they should have their hips and elbows tested etc - so there won't be any hybrid vigour.

If you see the photos of the parents, the white shepherd is a mangy yellowish thing and the malamute I couldn't pick for a purebred. $700 seems really unreasonable price for unregistered animals without any health testing. To me it seems they were able to obtain these animals because they were pet quality and unfit for breeding.

I think I should note at this point that I am an owner of one of these breeds and a lover of both.

agreed again. please, try everything you can to steer them clear of this kind of dog... I am in serious worry for the poor animal as you said the 3yo is feral... good luck!!

I should also say that if they are struggling with money then stay awayyyy from dogs!!!!

TBH I got max and jenna without thinking of the financial implications, and even though I always have money readily available just in case, I am not the richest person in the world and have serious money issues! ;)

Max has cost me over $1000 in vet bills in his almost 2 years of life... Jenna has cost me almost nothing, atm ;) To give them proper food (as we are talking about in 'jenna's poos' thread lol) MAY cost a s**tload. The dog need toys, leads and collars (which arent necessarily cheap), a bed/kennel, fleaing/worming costs, desexing if they are doing that, yearly shots... plus the unexpected vet bills if the dog gets sick, the anitbiotics that they might need more than 1 dose...

there are SO many costs and people like your friends, I assume, have absolutely NO idea how much dogs ACTUALLY cost.

ETA: edited to say 'stay away from dogs' not 'stay away from these types of dogs'... all dogs can be expensive

Edited May 19, 2011 by Leelaa17

[haven]

Gosh! I can't help you with suggestions on how to talk then out of it because IME you can talk until you're blue in the face and it just doesn't work If someone that lived with me and owed me a significant amount of money for rent and bond went out and bought a $700 dog though, I'd be giving them notice to move out

[Flick_Mac]

My friend has a malamute x shepherd and he's the most timid dog I've ever seen. NOTHING we tried would get him to come and seek attention. We're quite worried he'll become fear aggressive, although his owners ARE aware of this and are working hard at socialising him. Not saying that this is a breed thing, it's far more likely his temperament and being raised on an isolated farm, but if you're grasping at straws for things to tell them it may help.

[whiskedaway]

Malamutes are calmer than Huskies, but they are BIG dogs, and they can be as big an escape artist as a Husky can. They're pack animals, they can be very dominant and they don't like being left alone. Hence by themselves they can be pretty destructive. And they're a typical Spitz - stubborn and "what's in it for me?" They need exercise as well because they have a lot of energy, but once again they're not as bad in that respect as Huskies.

[Dogsfevr]

Surely as they are renting they would have had to ask the others whether they wish to have a dog there ??

[Leelaa17]

My friend has a malamute x shepherd and he's the most timid dog I've ever seen. NOTHING we tried would get him to come and seek attention. We're quite worried he'll become fear aggressive, although his owners ARE aware of this and are working hard at socialising him. Not saying that this is a breed thing, it's far more likely his temperament and being raised on an isolated farm, but if you're grasping at straws for things to tell them it may help.

On this note - you can tell your friends that if the 3yo isn't gentle enough etc then the dog COULD become fear aggressive, and end up hurting one of the children? I know its a stretch and its not a nice thing to say but surely the people would care whether or not a very large dog could hurt their kids if the kids aren't sensible around it?

And I should note I didn't say this based on breed - any breed can become fear aggressive because of kids... MIL's maltese has and she went for my nephews face because she was terrorised by kids when she was younger.

Imagine a large dog doing that?

[Leelaa17]

you know what? If they were my friends I wouldn't even hesitate to make s**t up!!! lol they need to NOT have an animal. for goodness sake. This actually really worries me that they might end up owning a dog. I feel sorry for the bloody dog! It deserves a better home than that!!

[Missymoo]

how can they afford it for one thing, and what does your friend say to them bringing a puppy in unannouced when they havnt paid bond or rent?? Sounds like they need to move out...

[poodlefan]

Time for some tough love.

Tell your friend to tell them if that puppy so much as sets foot in the house, she'll be taking them to the small claims court to get the money the owe her. (Which she should be hinting at anyway)

Pussy footing about with morons only leaves you with sore feet.

The key issue here is financial. No need to make up a bunch of scary stories about dogs.

I'd not be wanting to share a house with this mob.. no way.

Edited for sense.

Edited May 19, 2011 by poodlefan

[Fatsofatsoman]

Time for some tough love.

Tell your friend to tell them if that puppy so much as sets foot in the house, she'll be taking them to the small claims court to get the money she owes them. (Which she should be hinting at anyway)

Pussy footing about with morons only leaves you with sore feet.

The key issue here is financial. No need to make up a bunch of scary stories about dogs.

exactly - I know for damn sure if any of my mates owed me money and were then advertising around about there next big purchase I'd be saying something.

along the lines of "I better have that $XXX you owe me before I see that dog in your house - cause if you can afford that you can afford pay me back"

And if they took offence to that and it caused dramas then I wouldn't care - they wouldn't be the type of people I'd call mates.

[sas]

If they can't afford those other expenses can they actually afford the dog? Are they just dreaming?

[SezzNJunebug]

how can they afford it for one thing, and what does your friend say to them bringing a puppy in unannouced when they havnt paid bond or rent?? Sounds like they need to move out...

x 2.

I'd be telling them to settle their debts or move out. How bloody selfish of them Thinking of themselves and what they want, not about their kid, their house mate or this poor poor dog they clearly wouldn't be able to provide for. If they're in debt and have a child to support why would they even consider it?

I guess it's a lot more complicated than that seeing as you said that you all work together

Good luck in convincing them against it

[Dogsrawesome]

if they get this dog i can see it in a shelter in a few months already , ive met a few mals that are pretty boisterous plus imagine how much it would cost to feed one. Will they even make the effort to take it to training if so thats money again plus vet bills etc. They have enough to pay already such a stupid decision and who would pay $700 for a x bred poor puppy.

[toy dog]

i know what they are thinking, if its a bitch, they are probably thinking to breed it later to make some money to pay off their debts, if the people sold all the others in the litter for that much and they are boasting about it, makes it attractive to potential BYB.

had a man do that to my work friend who had a British bulldog. he said that he made $15,000 a year in stud fees and told my work friend to do the same. the pup in question was not a good example of the breed at all just pet quality.

i was so angry. in the end i won the dog got desexed. but you have farmers come along and make it look attractive and low and behold they try and do the same thing.

don't huskies howl not bark, you could tell them that. they get very bored and start howling and you can't stop them. plus the element they are very driven and jump fences they won't be able to keep it in, it costs alot to feed the dog and they need it registered with the council and microchipped by law and vaccinated and where are they are going to get the $ to afford it. if they don't get it registerd with the council they could be fined $500.

so they are up for $50-$60 a vacc X3 times plus microchip $25 plus $20 a week or so in food? plus council reg $30 odd....plus worming, leads brushes so they could be looking at possibly $300 just for basic stuff so thats $1000 easily.

perhaps ask them are they planning to breed this pup.

Edited May 19, 2011 by toy dog