What Would Be The "right" Thing To Do?

[oakway]

While people take their dogs to dog parks and they are allowed off lead it is going to continue to happen.

Just go and read all the reports we have on this Forum.

Would I take a dog of mine to a dog park............NO WAY.

[aussielover]

It all comes down to whether you think it is ok for a dog to go running up to another dog and bummp it or get in its face.

Do you expect the other dog to just sit there and ignore it? Sure some dogs will, in fact I would expect that my own dog would ignore it, but not all dogs have the same level of tolerance.

The staffy is legally dangerous- it has attacked and injured another dog. Is it the staffy's fault? No, its not, it is the owners fault, the owner shouldn't have let the dog run up to another.

Is the husky dangerous? No, because its reaction didn't intend to cause injury to the staffy, merely to cause it to back off.

Just my opinion though...

[Odin-Genie]

While people take their dogs to dog parks and they are allowed off lead it is going to continue to happen.

Just go and read all the reports we have on this Forum.

Would I take a dog of mine to a dog park............NO WAY.

I think that is simplifying the situation and taking away the responsibility from the dog owners. People need to control their dogs. And dogs running up to other dogs and invading their space by bumping into them is not acceptable behaviour. I don't think the husky was at fault at all. Telling other dogs off by growling is normal dog behaviour. It usually doesn't result in a serious dog fight unless the instigator (the staff x in this instance) doesn't heed the warning and wants to have a fight. A dog that can seriously bite another dog with so little provocation is an aggressive dogs. This is not 'dogs will be dogs' behaviour!!! And this dog should not be off leash.

I take my dogs to dog parks and watch all interaction closely. If an irresponsible owner or a badly behaved dog/strange dog approaches the park, I leave. But my dogs have had some great plays at the dog park with their buddies, including a staffy x who also comes to my home to play with them. So I won't blame the breed.

[jacqui835]

Sorry to hijack, but I'd really like to ask a question if I may.

If another dog does attack your own, what's the best thing to do to get them/the other dog to stop?

Do you try and pull your dog away, kick the other one (if so, where?), scare them apart? I really have no idea but would like to have an idea in case I'm ever in the situation, my instincts would probably say kick, but it seems a but excessive maybe?

One of the reasons people will give you for desexing your dog is that it will make other dogs less likely to attack yours, and I believe this is probably true. There are desexed dogs who for some reason are desperate to attack entire dogs (typically their owners have no control over them whatsoever). So if you choose to own an entire dog, as I do, it is a little something extra you have to be prepared for.

If you have good control of your own dog, and your dog trusts you entirely, the situation becomes immeasurably easier (though still not ideal by any stretch). This is because you can tell your dog to leave it, ignore it, and stay behind you so that you're free to address the other dog without having to worry about the signals your dog may be giving. Key also is being aware of other dogs, so that you have as much warning as possible. If I see that a dog is becoming more and more keen to try and dominate my dog, and is tracking him (searching groups of dogs at the dog park, following his trail), I call my dog to me immediately. The thing is, I have a very well-socialised dog. He will tolerate a high degree of rude behaviour (your dog needs to if you're going to take him to the dog park) and will ignore dogs trying to start something for quite a while, but if pressed or cornered, he won't back down so I need to intervene. I have successfully managed to 'claim' my dog if you like from dogs who wanted to attack him, even after they've tried to bite him, just by standing between my dog and the attacker and confronting them - telling them no, and to go away in a firm but not hysterical voice. Most dogs that are dog aggressive are fortunately not human aggressive, so if you can identify the signs before the attack, and you can be really assertive, you have a decent chance of preventing the whole thing.

It was kind of sad, the owners of these dogs never listen and often completely ignore their dogs. There was a staffy cross at a park I used to visit in Sydney who tried to attack my dog twice (we started leaving the park when I saw him there after that). He wasn't human aggressive at all, and would completely back off when I challenged him, but he was trigger happy with other dogs (he was desexed early but hated entire males for some reason).

Friends of mine who owned a lovely, totally non-aggressive entire male beagle who used to play with my entire male doberman very happily weren't so lucky. They thought their dog was going to die, and the owner had no idea what to do so he stuck his finger up the backside of the staffy cross and fortunately he released. The beagle couldn't stand up, let alone fight back and still has some terrible scars right across his front leg where the staffy grabbed and shook him.

But once the dog is attacking - well everyone else has already given great advice about that. I just thought that perhaps it could be helpful to talk about preventative measures as well.

I know people have disagreed with me on this before, but nothing scares me more than a staffy or bully type breed. They just do seem to be more reactive and less predictable, and then once a fight begins well you know who the winner will be

[WreckitWhippet]

I'm not sure how anyone can make a judgement in this instance, based on the words of someone who was on the otherside of a very big oval.

[corvus]

That's really NOT "dogs being dogs". "Dogs being dogs" have blues that are mostly noise. A dangerous dog by definition is likely to cause damage, which this dog did. How can you say that is not dangerous? The husky had to go to the vet!

They do, who says?

Roger Abrantes, off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find more if I looked. If this wasn't the case, we wouldn't even be able to have dog parks. And I sure as hell would never take my dogs to them if there were even a 50% chance that fights would result in injury. Kivi's good at keeping out of trouble, but Erik not so much. He's good at asking a bit too nicely for a dog to leave him alone and then exploding after the dog ignores him for about the fourth time.

I think to some extent we do have to take responsibility for our dogs' tendencies as well. Erik might fly off the handle if a dog knocks him around in play, but only after he's done a lot of wincing and crouching and ears down and looking away and "I really just don't like that" signals. I am really not interested in whether him flying off the handle is appropriate or not. It's not what I want him to get into the habit of doing, so I do my utmost to step in before it gets to that. And I damn well reward him when he communicates in non-aggressive ways. And the couple of times I have been too slow I have apologised to the other dog owner. I could have stopped it if I'd been a bit more alert. It doesn't really matter whether he only did it because the other dog was ignoring him. If he had a shorter fuse there would be certain breeds and mixes I wouldn't let him play with at all. As it is, I move him on pretty quick if he starts playing with a staffy type dog. They often start knocking him around and almost always ignore him asking them to stop. I don't blame them because they are what they are, but I'm not going to stand back and let Erik feel pushed into provoking one and then if he gets himself into trouble, say that he was behaving appropriately. He was, but it won't help him, will it? It's hard to do something if a dog barges right into your dog, but if you see a bouncy staffy mix barreling towards the dog park, well, I'd be calling my dogs in close to me. Wouldn't you? Erik likes to stand between my legs and does it on cue. It's hard for most dogs to barge him when he's got a leg on either side of him. It tends to tone down play situations that are getting too physical as well.

[lovemesideways]

I'm not sure how anyone can make a judgement in this instance, based on the words of someone who was on the otherside of a very big oval.

I don't really know what your problem is but you seem to have the opinion that either by very big I mean kilometers, or maybe I just have horrible eye sight? I was wearing glasses.

It isn't hard to see a dogs behavior across this oval. There was nobody in the way and I was watching the gate at the time. Also my friend was standing right nearby when it happened and confirmed what I saw. So that comments about "how could you see" aren't really necessary and if you think that the thread is bullshit then why are you even commenting?

[WreckitWhippet]

I'm not sure how anyone can make a judgement in this instance, based on the words of someone who was on the otherside of a very big oval.

I don't really know what your problem is but you seem to have the opinion that either by very big I mean kilometers, or maybe I just have horrible eye sight? I was wearing glasses.

It isn't hard to see a dogs behavior across this oval. There was nobody in the way and I was watching the gate at the time. Also my friend was standing right nearby when it happened and confirmed what I saw. So that comments about "how could you see" aren't really necessary and if you think that the thread is bullshit then why are you even commenting?

Must have been a very loud growl for you to hear it from the other side of the oval too.

[oakway]

If you go to dog parks with dogs off lead expect this to happen.

Their dogs, there lose, if you put your dog into this environment expect fights to happen.

Why blame the dogs????? after all, as I said, they are dogs.

Why blame the owners, their dog is most likely the best behaved dog home.

I believe that if dog parks are going to continue you had all better learn to put up with dog fights. (or don't go)

Report them ?, what for ?, their dog was just as much fault as the other.

They are dogs, they do not always ask politely or excuse themselves when incidents happen, then all hell breaks lose.

Go have a look in the local school yard you will see the same type of thing happening.

All you would say is kids will be kids. Well dogs will be dogs.

The only people that really win in these cases are the lawyers that pocket the fees.

Thats the stuipest thing i have ever read.

Why is it stupid. I bet I have had more experience with dogs than you. I bet my qualifications in dog training and management out weigh yours. I am well qualified to speak out about dog behaviour.

Just go back and see how many posts are similar related to this one..... dog attacks in dog parks.

Also if you read my post it was not necessarily directed to the OP but directed more in general about dog fights in parks.

I now days basically show my dogs.(Getting a bit old for energetic dog training) :D I attend many, many dog shows with far more dogs attending these shows than dogs in the local dog park.

Do we allow our dogs off lead ?, no not bl@@dy likely, why ?, because with so many dogs, and amongst them, some very well trained dogs

all h@ll could break lose.

When you put a whole heap of dogs together weather they are trained or the average back yard dog out with its owner you can bet your life at some stage one dog will do the unexpected and start a fight.

[Alibi]

Its stuiped to expect there be fights and no one is at fault. You shouldnt have to expect your dog will be attacked and the dog that attacked a dog who was trying to get away to not be at fault.

I hate dog parks and would never go near one, i dont trust other people with their dogs, especially as an owner of a toy breed, and luckly my dog has limited intrest in other dogs anyway.

Edited May 18, 2011 by melt

[lovemesideways]

I'm not sure how anyone can make a judgement in this instance, based on the words of someone who was on the otherside of a very big oval.

I don't really know what your problem is but you seem to have the opinion that either by very big I mean kilometers, or maybe I just have horrible eye sight? I was wearing glasses.

It isn't hard to see a dogs behavior across this oval. There was nobody in the way and I was watching the gate at the time. Also my friend was standing right nearby when it happened and confirmed what I saw. So that comments about "how could you see" aren't really necessary and if you think that the thread is bullshit then why are you even commenting?

Must have been a very loud growl for you to hear it from the other side of the oval too.

Note the part about my friend standing nearby? Yeah, she heard the growl.

Sheesh whats your problem?

[jacqui835]

It all comes down to whether you think it is ok for a dog to go running up to another dog and bummp it or get in its face.

Do you expect the other dog to just sit there and ignore it? Sure some dogs will, in fact I would expect that my own dog would ignore it, but not all dogs have the same level of tolerance.

The staffy is legally dangerous- it has attacked and injured another dog. Is it the staffy's fault? No, its not, it is the owners fault, the owner shouldn't have let the dog run up to another.

Is the husky dangerous? No, because its reaction didn't intend to cause injury to the staffy, merely to cause it to back off.

Just my opinion though...

I don't expect my dog to ignore it necessarily, but to be more reasonable about it. Fact is, this staffy from this account appears to have been virtually ready to kill another dog for bumping into it. The husky was not trying to fight back and just wanted to escape, and I would consider my dog to have some sort of issue if it was trying to kill an animal not out of a need to hunt or self-defense... (and even if this account is false or incorrect, I have personally met staffies/staffy crosses that acted in a similar fashion and seen them do serious damage.)

Fact is you can typically go to the dog park without having to worry about your dog being killed. They may have little scuffs, but to want to seriously maim or kill another dog is truly unusual.

[corvus]

When you put a whole heap of dogs together weather they are trained or the average back yard dog out with its owner you can bet your life at some stage one dog will do the unexpected and start a fight.

Yet, I go to dog parks and dog beaches nearly every day and have for the past 3 years, and I could count the fights I've seen without bloodshed on one hand. I couldn't count the dog fights I've seen with bloodshed because I haven't seen any. I've seen one dog with a leg wound after a fight, but never saw the fight.

I don't expect fights to happen at dog parks, and rarely see them happen. I think some dog parks have a higher incidence of aggressive altercations than others, but for the most part I have not found fights to be very common. I am always aware that they can happen, and I take steps to calm everyone down if I think we are inching from "unlikely" to "moderately likely" to occur.

Incidentally, I've been warned a few times by dog park regulars that have had trouble with a particular dog. It is always a dog and owner new to the park, and they never seem to stick around, even if they seem to think there's nothing wrong with their dog's behaviour. I suspect they know there's something wrong with their dog's behaviour deep down and stop going to the dog park. I know one dog that got into a few harmless arguments in the dog park and is now walked past it on the streets instead. Most people don't like dealing with fighting dogs.

[Dogsrawesome]

I dont think it was a good idea for the owner to let the dog off lead when it was so hyper? normal dog tiffs are just all noise not grab the dog and try to rip it to shreds and i do not see how that is "dogs being dogs".

[JoeK]

If you go to dog parks with dogs off lead expect this to happen.

Their dogs, there lose, if you put your dog into this environment expect fights to happen.

Why blame the dogs????? after all, as I said, they are dogs.

Why blame the owners, their dog is most likely the best behaved dog home.

I believe that if dog parks are going to continue you had all better learn to put up with dog fights. (or don't go)

Report them ?, what for ?, their dog was just as much fault as the other.

They are dogs, they do not always ask politely or excuse themselves when incidents happen, then all hell breaks lose.

Go have a look in the local school yard you will see the same type of thing happening.

All you would say is kids will be kids. Well dogs will be dogs.

The only people that really win in these cases are the lawyers that pocket the fees.

Yes, I am agreeing on this point here and it doesnt matter whos at fault when you carry dog home in a box to plant him under the tree. No dog is garantee to being effective on control without a leash and my opinion is you go to the dog park at owners risk. When you doing the right thing walking to dog on leash and an off leash dog attack is different and having a law to use for the blaming, but off leash dog park for the prosecuting success pfffff best wishes I am saying.

Joe

[JoeK]

In any case where there has been actual injury caused- the dog that caused the injury is responsible and the owner should pay vet fees for the injured dog. If both dogs are injured then I guess it would be the dog that "started" it ie. behaved inappropriately- to me this sounds like the staffy x in this situation.

The husky responded normally imo, many dogs do not like being rushed and I think some kind of warning or like growling, barking, even pinning and a "tell off" is ok, so long as it doesn't cause injury to the other dog.

I think it is really bad that the owner of the staffy ran away, and I hope you can track them down and report them.

I am not against bull breeds either; but I think they can react to a challenge more swiftly and strongly than a lot of other dogs and they definitely don't back down and need to be managed by people who know when to and can intervene before this happens.

I disagree with this. I have seen plenty of dogs on lead who have been attacked. And done damage to the other dog but have not had any damage done to them.

It has even happened to my own dog who was off lead in a sit stay and got jumped on by another dog. He grabbed the dog and released it resulting in some puncture wounds. I was able to grab him and put his lead on straight away, while the other dog took another 5 minutes to catch (and kept running back at my poor dog- I had to just keep kicking it away) because it thought it was all a game and the owner had no recall. I really cant see how it was my fault that the other dog got injured!! Since then I have had to be careful with him because dogs rushing up to him scares the shit out of him- so no PHYSICAL damage done but perhaps damage done to him none the less.

I seeing once a Bully type dog rush a Belgian Malinois Bitch an the bitch she give this Bully dog what the calling here "bloody good hiding" and she biting chunk from the back of is neck. She was on the leash and the Bully come up for some trouble and try attack on her and she give him a nasty one and the Bully owner saying they must pay for the vet because she causing damage and the vet invoice for paying? But is not her fault the Belgian Bitch is just the Bully biting off more than hes chewing and he cop one? So because one getting injury doesnt mean other dogs fault not always.

Joe

[Keira&Phoenix]

If you go to dog parks with dogs off lead expect this to happen.

Their dogs, there lose, if you put your dog into this environment expect fights to happen.

Why blame the dogs????? after all, as I said, they are dogs.

Why blame the owners, their dog is most likely the best behaved dog home.

I believe that if dog parks are going to continue you had all better learn to put up with dog fights. (or don't go)

Report them ?, what for ?, their dog was just as much fault as the other.

They are dogs, they do not always ask politely or excuse themselves when incidents happen, then all hell breaks lose.

Go have a look in the local school yard you will see the same type of thing happening.

All you would say is kids will be kids. Well dogs will be dogs.

The only people that really win in these cases are the lawyers that pocket the fees.

Yes, I am agreeing on this point here and it doesnt matter whos at fault when you carry dog home in a box to plant him under the tree. No dog is garantee to being effective on control without a leash and my opinion is you go to the dog park at owners risk. When you doing the right thing walking to dog on leash and an off leash dog attack is different and having a law to use for the blaming, but off leash dog park for the prosecuting success pfffff best wishes I am saying.

Joe

Actually Joe K you will find that all dog parks have signs that tell you that to use the park your dog must not be dangerous and must be under effective voice control at all times. This makes anyone who goes into a park liable if their dog causes harm to another dog. If my dog was attacked and injured in a dog park I can absolutely guarantee you those people would be paying for my dogs vet fees and recovery. They would also be reported to council and their dog declared dangerous, I would make sure it happened to protect other people and their dogs.

I have to agree with Corvus. In the 4 years I have been going to dog parks etc on a regular occasion I am yet to see a dog fight that has been more than noise. No serious injuries, no injuries at all actually. I think the other thing about being a responsible owner is being able to read body language your own dogs and other dogs and know when to move away from a potentially dangerous dog, I can and I do, I avoided several unstable dogs at the park on Saturday afternoon and Phi and I had a great time (until I lost my keys that is haha, but that's another story).

Edited May 18, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[oakway]

Its stuiped to expect there be fights and no one is at fault. You shouldnt have to expect your dog will be attacked and the dog that attacked a dog who was trying to get away to not be at fault.

I hate dog parks and would never go near one, i dont trust other people with their dogs, especially as an owner of a toy breed, and luckly my dog has limited intrest in other dogs anyway.

I agree with you about dog parks.

But alas when we have have a variety of unknown dogs together my motto is "Always expect the unexpected"

[griff]

While people take their dogs to dog parks and they are allowed off lead it is going to continue to happen.

Just go and read all the reports we have on this Forum.

Would I take a dog of mine to a dog park............NO WAY.

I totally agree , never been to a dog park and I have no intentions of ever

taking one of my dogs there , seriously not worth the hassle to me .

Edited May 19, 2011 by griff

[Leelaa17]

When you put a whole heap of dogs together weather they are trained or the average back yard dog out with its owner you can bet your life at some stage one dog will do the unexpected and start a fight.

Yet, I go to dog parks and dog beaches nearly every day and have for the past 3 years, and I could count the fights I've seen without bloodshed on one hand. I couldn't count the dog fights I've seen with bloodshed because I haven't seen any. I've seen one dog with a leg wound after a fight, but never saw the fight.

I don't expect fights to happen at dog parks, and rarely see them happen. I think some dog parks have a higher incidence of aggressive altercations than others, but for the most part I have not found fights to be very common. I am always aware that they can happen, and I take steps to calm everyone down if I think we are inching from "unlikely" to "moderately likely" to occur.

Incidentally, I've been warned a few times by dog park regulars that have had trouble with a particular dog. It is always a dog and owner new to the park, and they never seem to stick around, even if they seem to think there's nothing wrong with their dog's behaviour. I suspect they know there's something wrong with their dog's behaviour deep down and stop going to the dog park. I know one dog that got into a few harmless arguments in the dog park and is now walked past it on the streets instead. Most people don't like dealing with fighting dogs.

completely agree. I go to dog parks ALL. THE. TIME. and max has been attacked once - I am not naming the breed because I think that is irrelevant - and he got a bad puncture wound in his leg that went down to the bone... other than that I have seen maybe 1 actual dog fight? And I have NEVER seen blood shed in any dog fight before.

I went to the dog park on the weekend and there was a staffy there that was entire and he was extraordinarly dominant towards this lab that was playing with a frisbee near his owners... the staffy would come over and stand over the owners infront of the lab and lab hated it so they got into a bit of rough and tumble - none were hurt - as max was trying to play with the lab at the time max stood back and barked while they 'fought'... I immediately went over and grabbed max and put him on lead and gave him a time out... I didn't want him to get involved...

also, while the owners of lab were sitting on the floor, the lab was chasing the frisbee while Max was chasing the lab and making growling noises (that to anyone else would sound aggressive) and chasing the lab and trying to get him around the neck (thats how he plays - I don't care what anyone else says, he is extremely gentle whilst playing) and when I saw them I immediately started calling max but the owners said to me 'don't worry he's fine hes fine' and I said to them, 'ok well as soon as u want max away from your lab you let me know' and I stood near them the entire time max was chasing the lab...

I immediately made sure the owners of the lab knew I was ready to get max if they wanted him gone from their lab but they were fine - but I know other people wouldnt have been comfortable and that is absolutely fine with me - I would've gotten max and taken him away straight away.

back to the topic... I think that dog parks are fine, as long as you have effective control over your dog, you wont have any problems... if a dog came barrelling into max he would turn around and start playing with that dog - he loves rough and tumble. if it happened to jenna I think she would've put her ears back and run away. lol... some dogs react differently.

I think it is ridiculous to think you should EXPECT dogs to have dog fights at dog parks... max has NEVER been aggressive towards a dog at a dog park... and if another dog (such as the dogs that attacked him) were to attack him he completely submits and tries to get away. I just try and faith in some other owners that they have effective control over their dogs... if it seems to me that they dont then I stay away from them or leave.