Dry Diet

[JulesP]

Unless you get your added bits of food balanced correctly then yes you can unbalance a complete dog food. I wouldn't fuss too much about it though as long as the dog looks good and is healthy.

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

I don't buy it. Kibble alone is boring above all else, and the dogs LOVE their meaty bones. I basically only give kibble so I know I'm not missing out on any trace elements. I've had a dog that could only eat dry and she had health problems galore.

I've asked many reps about food for my previous girl's stomach problems and they were mostly less than helpful.

[B-Q]

We feed mostly raw, about twice a week they get a decent quality kibble (trying out eagle pack atm) with some egg, or tinned fish or yoghurt on top.

I couldn't feed just kibble, I'd worry about their teeth.

Edited May 15, 2011 by B-Q

[Nekhbet]

there is no prerequisite for a rep to have medical knowledge. I have known reps to give out frankly dangerous information and in one instance told an owner to chage the dogs diet to the dogs extreme detriment.

If you have a medical question you ask a vet to analyse the products ingredients or see a specialist. Reps are more a part of marketing then health science.

[best4koda]

Yes, I would be warying of any rep giving advice as you have to realise their job is to sell the product. That is their job in a nutshell. But I think you need to be mindful when feeding (whatever it is) to try to balance the meal within reason. We sometimes don't eat balance meals day in day out and for the most part it's ok. It only becomes a problem if it's constantly out of wack. Dogs in the wild would not get an exact balance each day on their food hunt.

I usually feed a combination. Some meals just kibble, others with some mince, rice, splash of kibble and vege. I'd get bored if someone kept feeding me the same cereal every day...

Just a note: our GSD pups have always come home on a diet of kibble, mince, and yoghurt and the breeders dogs look great.

You just need to be mindful and feed what you think works best for your dog and you are happy with it.

[Guest english.ivy]

My OH's Labradors get a purely dry food diet only, they are both mature aged and couldn't be more healthy They both eat it twice a day with no issues. Never had to see a vet etc.

If I did that to my two they'd get bored and so would I. I enjoy adding different things to their dry food and making it different for them. So my two get mainly dry with stuff [broad use of the word stuff] added.

[corvus]

Dr Billinghurst claims that feeding a 'balanced' diet at every meal (i.e. commercial diet) introduces a variety of problems such as de-activation of vitamins, production of insoluble compounds that are difficult to digest, and consistent excess of protein, phosphorous, sodium and calcium. He goes on to claim that a raw diet can have a higher amount of protein in it than a commercial diet, but because meals are quite different day to day, the kidneys can cope with the high protein because they then get a rest period. He says that separating starchy meals and protein-rich meals seems to result in better digestion, but acknowledges that no one really knows why. That was a while back when he wrote "Give Your Dog A Bone", though. I'm interested that he has his BARF patties that are pretty much exactly what he warns against several times in his book. :p He says that an all-kibble diet may cause kidney problems. It's hard to prove because obviously not every animal on an all-kibble diet gets kidney problems, and if they occur in old age who can say why?

[Nekhbet]

not every component of a diet is required on a daily basis. The body of every animal is made to cope with changes in the diet by storing required components or giving you 'cravings' if you're becoming severely or long term deficient. Considering in most cases you have to do some pretty extreme things in order to cause disease due to particular deficiencies/overdose (eg feed only pure raw meat long term) or you ignore blatant symptoms your dog has showing its diet is imbalanced it's not panic stations.

Remember nutritional needs will also change due to hormonal levels, growth stage, weather, workload, disease, etc

If you feed mostly a decent kibble or balanced diet then there is not a lot to panic about. Variety can be good for dogs digestion too.

[corvus]

Clearly I become lamington deficient on a regular basis. ;)

[stormie]

I bought this up at work today to get my boss' view on this. He believed that there was no negative effects associated with feeding extra protein like that in conjunction with dry food to an adult dog. Dogs need protein and apparently there is no evidence to suggest feeding high levels can lead to kidney problems like once thought.

DIETARY CONSIDERATIONS

Contrary to popular myth, diets rich in protein ("high protein levels") do not cause kidney damage. Research done decades ago indicated that rodent kidneys were adversely affected by diets high in protein... and misguided researchers extrapolated that data to apply to the canine. There is no evidence that feeding dogs and cats diets rich in or "high" in protein actually causes kidney damage or disease. Some day this myth will be finally be put to rest. In fact, there is ample research and well documented studies that prove that dogs and cats thrive on diets with levels of protein consistent with a meat-eater's (carnivore) natural prey selection. Read more about protein in dog and cat diets here.

Additionally, documented research on dogs indicates that reducing dietary protein levels in older dogs may be unwise; however, if kidney damage is already present to the extent that the BUN levels are 75mg/dl or above, some restriction of dietary protein may be beneficial for metabolic reasons... not renal reasons. "...restriction of protein intake does not alter the development of renal lesions nor does it preserve renal function." (See KIRKS VETERINARY THERAPY XIII, Small Animal Practice, W. B. Saunders, page 861). Restricting dietary protein may be helpful to those patients whose BUN levels are rather high and that are already in advanced kidney failure.

Edited May 16, 2011 by stormie

[miava]

The people at the Hill's Stand were either Prescription or Science Diet reps, and those actually doing the weighing (including those with the accents ) were 3rd year University of Melbourne Vet students, certainly not just backpackers

What were the qualifications of the lady at the Hill's stall?

I think they were just sales reps.

I almost had a an argument with them though- they didn't seem to be very well informed or "doggy" people. Fancy not even knowing what a labrador looks like :rolleyes:

I noticed a couple had American accents? Probably backpackers or something working casually for Hills.

[miava]

The people at the Hill's Stand were either Prescription or Science Diet reps, and those actually doing the weighing (including those with the accents ) were 3rd year University of Melbourne Vet students, certainly not just backpackers There is a helpline 1800 679 932 that is staffed by vets with extensive nutritional knowledge if you would like to be referred to studies etc Hills use to base their recommendations

[espinay2]

Dry foods need to be 'scientifically balanced' - the reason for this is because they want you to feed that thing only and nothing else so whatever that one thing has in it needs to have everything in it to at least maintain a dog in reasonable health. A bit like promoting a 'superfood' for humans - a paste or shake that you can have at every meal and nothing else and get 100% of your daily nutrients. That is basically what commercial dog foods are equivalent to.

Feeding foods in their natural form is a different proposition. It provides the nutrients that the commercial diets mix up in their test tubes in a whole food form. Feeding natural foods like raw meaty bones with commercial foods is not going to mess up the 'balance' of the commercial foods any more than a person eating a nutrient shake with a salad for lunch is going to . But just like eating a variety of whole natural foods ourselves provides a lot of added benefits that you simply can't get from those 'scientifically balanced' formulas.

BTW, studies on humans (soldiers) fed for an extended period (in this case one to two months if I remember correctly) on pre-prepared and 'scientifically balanced' ration packs and no fresh foods showed over that time decreases in immunity and issues with sustaining performance. Those fed at least a portion of fresh foods maintained better immune response and fitness levels.

FWIW

Edited May 16, 2011 by espinay2

[samoyedman]

thanks for the info miava. Can I ask are you affililiated with them in some way?

[Sayly]

Was it a university open day? At our uni, Hills sponsor a couple of vet students to promote their food & their free stuff to all the other students. They get their claws into us early, LOL. So perhaps they were the people on the stall?

So far as I'm aware, feeding a high protein diet won't hurt a healthy dog (if it's already got kidney problems, or liver problems, that might be a different matter).

Adding extra stuff to a formulated kibble can upset the balance of nutrients, if what you're adding isn't itself balanced.

They provided us with a huge small animal nutrition textbook and sponsor everything, no wonder vets like them.

[samoyedman]

The people at the Hill's Stand were either Prescription or Science Diet reps, and those actually doing the weighing (including those with the accents ) were 3rd year University of Melbourne Vet students, certainly not just backpackers

What were the qualifications of the lady at the Hill's stall?

I think they were just sales reps.

I almost had a an argument with them though- they didn't seem to be very well informed or "doggy" people. Fancy not even knowing what a labrador looks like :rolleyes:

I noticed a couple had American accents? Probably backpackers or something working casually for Hills.

By the way I am in Sydney. Surely they weren't uni of Melb vet students at our Million Paws?

[Staranais]

Was it a university open day? At our uni, Hills sponsor a couple of vet students to promote their food & their free stuff to all the other students. They get their claws into us early, LOL. So perhaps they were the people on the stall?

So far as I'm aware, feeding a high protein diet won't hurt a healthy dog (if it's already got kidney problems, or liver problems, that might be a different matter).

Adding extra stuff to a formulated kibble can upset the balance of nutrients, if what you're adding isn't itself balanced.

They provided us with a huge small animal nutrition textbook and sponsor everything, no wonder vets like them.

Aw, we only got the pocket edition of the nutrition textbook! I feel cheated.

Seriously though, I have used their prescription diets several times this year for patients with various health issues, and will continue to use them. I don't feed, or particularly recommend, Hills for normal healthy animals, though. I'm sure it's an OK product, but I don't think it's anything special.

[miava]

thanks for the info miava. Can I ask are you affililiated with them in some way?

I am I'm not planning on plugging the product on DO (although FWIW I do feed my Boxer's just dry food and they look amazing lol!!) I just thought I would put up some more info about who the people at the stand were, and a way for people to find more info if they are interested

(Edited for spelling)

Edited May 16, 2011 by miava

[aussielover]

I also think the prescription products are excellent. The normal range is good, but not what I would call super-premium. With foods, I think it comes down to what the dog does best on, and what the owners preference for feeding is.

The staff at the Hills stand in Sydney were sales reps; not vet students or vets.

Although, Hills are very supportive of vet students and sponsor a lot of events.

[WreckitWhippet]

Stick to what your dog is currently on. If you were going to feed all dry, run a mile from SD.

Have a read of the ingredients, it's garbage with a capital G