AmandaJ Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Probiotics are great for re-balancing the gut flora. Anytime the vet gives your dog antibiotics you should finish them off with a week on probiotics. If the "poop" is fine after a course but soon change back then I'd be looking at what you're feeding. You could also try increasing the proteolytic enzymes in the gut too (papain). Generally if the diet is balanced and the dog has no gastric problems then supplements shouldn't be needed - but dogs are no different to us and we do all get "tummy problems". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think you should test for EPI, please have a look at this site for more information- www.epi4dogs.com Your dogs symptoms sound very familar to EPI and not all dogs with EPI have dramatic weight loss, you dog might have more of an SIBO problem and mild EPI but it needs to diagnosed first- TLI test as well as for Folate and Cobalamin which can indicate SIBO. Hope your GSD gets better soon. Hi, will note on the SIBO issue as well. If it doesn't resolve we will test for EPI. It's just so expensive the test so we are trying to see if it's food intolerance first, if we can't narrow it down we will head off for the test. We usually would just go ahead with a test as we care for our pets greatly and expense isn't a prob but unfortunately we have hit a very bad patch of bills. Also spoke to breeder and they haven't had an EPI dog that they are aware of so far....but in saying that this girl's father is a recent german import. If it is a mild EPI case what is the usual procedure to control, diet only, or supplements/meds. I do know from vet the meds are limited at the moment and quite efty in price. Have also taken a look at www.epidogs.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carluke Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think you should test for EPI, please have a look at this site for more information- www.epi4dogs.com Your dogs symptoms sound very familar to EPI and not all dogs with EPI have dramatic weight loss, you dog might have more of an SIBO problem and mild EPI but it needs to diagnosed first- TLI test as well as for Folate and Cobalamin which can indicate SIBO. Hope your GSD gets better soon. Hi, will note on the SIBO issue as well. If it doesn't resolve we will test for EPI. It's just so expensive the test so we are trying to see if it's food intolerance first, if we can't narrow it down we will head off for the test. We usually would just go ahead with a test as we care for our pets greatly and expense isn't a prob but unfortunately we have hit a very bad patch of bills. Also spoke to breeder and they haven't had an EPI dog that they are aware of so far....but in saying that this girl's father is a recent german import. If it is a mild EPI case what is the usual procedure to control, diet only, or supplements/meds. I do know from vet the meds are limited at the moment and quite efty in price. Have also taken a look at www.epidogs.com Lots of trying this n that will also proof expensive! We had never had EPI till the first one either! EPI is ongoing treatment is a mixture of enzyme replacement and low fat foods. Our case proved a non responsive to all treatments and we lost him 6 months after diagnosis. Shock tactics YES test the dog. Cheers Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frufru Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Why are you giving her rice? She could be intolerant of this and it is already in her kibble so why does she need more? When you introduce something to a dog that already has a sensitve gut I would start with very small amount eg teaspoon and increase this over several days. I am not surprised that the marrow bone set her off - this is very rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hi, Carluke, no need for shock tactics. I am waiting for my vet to get back on Thursday to speak to him about Koda. I rang today. I will be contacting him on thursday but do not want to change vets as we have had the run around from others and this one seems to know what he's talking about and goes thru eliminating things very logically.Very sorry to hear you lost one to EPI. Frufru, I was removing the rice from her diet tonight. I had only been adding it as it seem to settle things down initially, just chicken n rice. I am doing alot of reading etc so I am in the learning stage about dog diets. Regarding the marrow bone. In hindsight I wouldn't have given it. Previously she had merely chewed on the outside for a day then I would pick it up and bin it. She had never consumed such a large bone in the fashion she did, neither did our 2 previous GSDs. I am very appreciative of everyones suggestions and please don't think I haven't taken them on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidley Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think you should test for EPI, please have a look at this site for more information- www.epi4dogs.com Your dogs symptoms sound very familar to EPI and not all dogs with EPI have dramatic weight loss, you dog might have more of an SIBO problem and mild EPI but it needs to diagnosed first- TLI test as well as for Folate and Cobalamin which can indicate SIBO. Hope your GSD gets better soon. Hi, will note on the SIBO issue as well. If it doesn't resolve we will test for EPI. It's just so expensive the test so we are trying to see if it's food intolerance first, if we can't narrow it down we will head off for the test. We usually would just go ahead with a test as we care for our pets greatly and expense isn't a prob but unfortunately we have hit a very bad patch of bills. Also spoke to breeder and they haven't had an EPI dog that they are aware of so far....but in saying that this girl's father is a recent german import. If it is a mild EPI case what is the usual procedure to control, diet only, or supplements/meds. I do know from vet the meds are limited at the moment and quite efty in price. Have also taken a look at www.epidogs.com Hi Best4koda I can totally understand where you are coming from with the expense of the test. I am still learning about EPI my GSD was diagnosed 6 weeks ago and we are still working out what is the right balance to treat her EPI. Our breeders have been around for 30 year + and never had it before either so while it's got a herditary element it's a little unclear how that part works. Treatment we are using is a grain free kibble- Canidae is available from my vet for a reasonable price so we have her on that. Also using Creon 10000 which is available at the chemist- human treatment works better than the dog specific product because it's a replacement not a supplement. We have also done a 40 day and counting course of antibiotics to treat her SIBO. Importantly we also give her a probiotic tablet to help with gut flora- blackmores one was on special so she's having that one. If you'd like more info please fee free to PM me. I hope you pup doesn't have EPI but if they do getting it early is key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thanks, yep agree on getting to it early. By the way how do you PM? Is it the message area if you view someones profile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidley Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 You PM by going to the message tab at the top of the page, clikc on compose new and type in the user name of the person you want to PM then away you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Hi, just spoke at length with the vet. He is happy for us to proceed how we are. He is leaning towards irritable bowl type of issue since we have had such an improvement with her. So we are continuing with a bland diet and slowly introducing things to see what works for her. But in saying that she will be off to get the TLI test if things go downward. Fingers crossed that we continue as we are. She may need some meds to help her along the way as we go along as well. Thanks for everyone's help and comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidley Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 That's great, hope she continues to improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynan Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 If EPI is ruled out you could try a pre biotic such as psyllium husks. A teaspoon mixed in water and left to sit for a while before adding to the dog's food will help bind poos together. This was recommended for Kynan by our holistic vet. The psyllium husks can be bought from a supermarket and help with both diahorrea and constipation and works for humans too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Kynan, yes was thinking similar as well since we are heading in one direction. I only know psyllium as in metamucil, is there a standard one ( another brand) at the supermarket as well or is that what you use but the unflavoured of course? Thanks for the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kynan Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 You can get just plain psyllium from supermarkets or health food stores. It looks very similar to breadcrumbs in similar plastic packaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetSitters Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Hi best4koda, I had a similar problem with my GSD never really having good poos after puppyhood with cow patties of a yellowy colour for the most part, did all the vet tests as you have done, had different medication for potential intestinal threats etc etc and reached the point we thought he may have an EPI issue. As a last resort before going down the EPI path I was given a regime by a very experienced GSD breeder to try him on 2 meals a day for breakfast, half a bowl of Royal Canin GSD 24 with a large scoop of plain yoghurt mixed in and for dinner, cooked rice mince and vegetables and no treat stuff like beefsticks etc and treat only with the Royal Canin kibble pieces. Anyway, two days later he actually did some formed poos for the first time in 12 months, I couldn't believe it and a fortnight later, he was doing nice solid brown poos and gained some some weight as he was always a bit skinny for his size. It's nearly two years since I began that feeding regime and it completely eliminated the problem. I did have a couple of minor relapses along the way re-introducing a few treat things and sometimes bones that made him a bit soft and yellowy again, but the basic regime with some plain dog biscuits for treats his poos are fantastic, he's a nice weight and seems really healthy. It was so frustrating trying to sort out this situation and keep weight on him and understand your plight very well, I don't know of course if my regime will help other's, but it fixed my boy beautifully. I feed my other two in the same regime, all have great poos with good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Thanks Kynan, will have a look for the plain one. PetSitters, thanks for the info. Coincidentally I have moved her back to feeding morning and night like you to spread the load for her stomach, seems to be working better. Yep, all treats are gone at the moment. I train her just with her kibble. Really she loves food so much she's happy with that. In the morning she's just kibble and at night she has started to get chicken frame mince (which have firmed her up further, very small amount) and since that has gone well, last night I added human grade Kanga mince to it. Slowly I will add more fresh less kibble at night if she continues as is. It's hard to sort thru all the info to try to hit on the right thing for your own dog. I have found breeders to be a wealth of info. I checked with mine for suggestions as well and she was betting a sensative tummy rather then EPI. So far it seems to be panning out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetSitters Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Thanks Kynan, will have a look for the plain one. PetSitters, thanks for the info. Coincidentally I have moved her back to feeding morning and night like you to spread the load for her stomach, seems to be working better. Yep, all treats are gone at the moment. I train her just with her kibble. Really she loves food so much she's happy with that. In the morning she's just kibble and at night she has started to get chicken frame mince (which have firmed her up further, very small amount) and since that has gone well, last night I added human grade Kanga mince to it. Slowly I will add more fresh less kibble at night if she continues as is. It's hard to sort thru all the info to try to hit on the right thing for your own dog. I have found breeders to be a wealth of info. I checked with mine for suggestions as well and she was betting a sensative tummy rather then EPI. So far it seems to be panning out that way. Some treats I have found can make my boy a bit soft again and he is not good on raw meat for some reason so he gets his mince cooked medium rare Once we got his feeding regime established and he was delivering nice formed poos, his digestive system became a lot stronger. Now he can have a meaty bone with no ill effects. The plain yoghurt mixed in with his morning kibble providing the probiotic effect was the essence of the breeder's opinion to stabilise his system which made sense to me. I could never get him over 34 kilos when he was ill and for a large male he was very ribby on the skinny side no matter how much he ate, it basically came out the other end undigested a lot of the time. He's now 40 kilos and feels nice along the ribs and in good shape for his size. He has got a sensitive digestive system compared with some dogs, but fortunately he's come good after a long time and frustration finding the right feeding regime to suit him. Good luck with your girl, hoping you find the balance that works for her system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab_Rat Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I also use this Probiotic for our Ridgy with great success!! Hi Lab Rat, did you find the probiotic took poos from soft to solid? Was that the issue you were having? Also, it seems she is tolerating chicken frames minced, if you feed this each day can it make them constipated being it's got bone in it as well? Just wondering as I know bones can harden them up. Has anyone else had success on Thrive D too? Sorry for not replying sooner!!! To be honest Im not sure how it helps Zola! As she hasnt been diagnosed with anything in particular, other than having meat-protein issues, I figure the PAW probiotic powder just supports her digestive tract when it is under stress After reading a bit about EPI and SIBO Im fascinated about what can actually be going on in our dogs digestive systems!!!! Ill be reading as much as I can (I found the Merck Vet Manual site to be pretty informative!).....Im hoping to maybe discover just what on earth is wrong with my girl. Although I wont be holding my breath!!! Do these conditions only occur in the GSD???? I hope you find some answers for you dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomas Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I use Dr Krugers Joint and Muscle for my 5 Vizslas,I swear by it,they always have firm stools,though they are raw fed and there are 4 herbs in there as well that are anti inflammatory as well as dog specific probiotics. I have an 11 year old and 2 10 year olds that run off lead HARD for 1-3 hours a day. Today we did 16km,well I did they would have done a LOT more,they never limp or are sore the next day either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Well we have better improvement. It seems the cheap SuperCoat Sensative is agreeing with my Koda (touch wood). Lab Rat, the more you read the more interesting the whole issue of food is. No not just GSD's suffer with this, apparently they are known for such as EPI but all kinds of breeds get these stomach issues and you only have to look at the special formulas out there catering for all sorts of conditions makes you wonder what is going on with our pooches these day. Our child hood dog didn't have commercial dog food at all, just scraps from the table and lots of raw off cuts etc and live to 15 which is a good age for a large dog. I believe just like us humans, the less processed stuff the better and dogs can't cook but we insist on cooking for them. Once Koda is stable I will slowly introduce raw back into her diet. This week she has been fine on minced chicken frame and Human grade gourmet kangaroo mince from coles (it's only $6-7 a kilo at the moment) I've bought some sardines from the market to try her on as well to get some good oils for her. She will always have some kibble in her diet but hopefully it will tip towards the fresh/raw in the long term. As they say, it seems the best kibble is the one that works for each dog and I will be trying to find a balance that suits Koda. Good luck with yours and keep reading and asking people and you might find something that works better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
best4koda Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Tomas, sounds like your guys are living pretty good and doing very well indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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