Syringomyelia

[divinemissmillie]

My 8 year old female Cav had to finally be put to sleep about 5 years ago due to SM. I got her as a 6 year old from a breeder to whom she had been returned after the previous owner had supposedly passed away (I think I have been told some porky pies in the past about a dog's history when I've adopted an adult dog !!!). I believe she already had it when I got her, but worsened with time. Apparently it is more usual to see in younger dogs. It was detected through an MRI scan. Fingers crossed I never see it again.

[HugUrPup]

My Miley shows signs but hasn't gone through all of the relevant testing as yet.

The vet it's either that or a seizure disorder.

[skyesblue]

We have two cavs at work that have some symtoms (but not MRI) that probably have the disease.

[Miss B]

My boy has COMS (Caudal Occipital Malformation Syndrome), but not Syringomyelia. Confirmed by MRI.

[Cavamum]

My boy has COMS (Caudal Occipital Malformation Syndrome), but not Syringomyelia. Confirmed by MRI.

I have a three month old puppy that I bought from a breeder on DOL and she scratches at her face, ears and shoulders a lot. I know it is early days but does anyone know if I could get an MRI scan done and how much it would cost since I am not a breeder? Can I get it done with the KC?

[indigirl]

Friends cav almost certainly had the disease, was a byb pup from Wagga area. They didnt have mri due to cost, plus the dog had a shocking heart. He was diagnosed with a grade 4 heart murmur at just under 4 months of age and by 8 months he was a grade 5. The dogs behaviour was bizaire to say the least and appeared to be preoccupied by whatever was going on internally for him. He was PTS at 10 months of age.

[Rebanne]

My boy has COMS (Caudal Occipital Malformation Syndrome), but not Syringomyelia. Confirmed by MRI.

I have a three month old puppy that I bought from a breeder on DOL and she scratches at her face, ears and shoulders a lot. I know it is early days but does anyone know if I could get an MRI scan done and how much it would cost since I am not a breeder? Can I get it done with the KC?

Get in touch with your breeder and talk to them. They should be able to help you or if they can't might be able to direct you to people who can. Don't panic, you just might have an itchy pup!

[Cavamum]

My boy has COMS (Caudal Occipital Malformation Syndrome), but not Syringomyelia. Confirmed by MRI.

I have a three month old puppy that I bought from a breeder on DOL and she scratches at her face, ears and shoulders a lot. I know it is early days but does anyone know if I could get an MRI scan done and how much it would cost since I am not a breeder? Can I get it done with the KC?

Get in touch with your breeder and talk to them. They should be able to help you or if they can't might be able to direct you to people who can. Don't panic, you just might have an itchy pup!

I emailed them over a month ago with a progress report and pics and never received a reply, I might try calling.

[divinemissmillie]

Bellackcs, my vet referred me to the University of Melbourne Veterinary Clinic (a teaching facility who have specialist vets working and teaching there)who then did the MRI on my dog (about 8 years ago and cost around $800 back then). I know you're not in Victoria, but your state would surely also have some large facility similar to here (or veterinary specialists). Good luck.

[LizT]

I know a couple with a pair of pet Cavs and one has been diagnosed and displays outward signs of it. I think it's fairly common.

No. it is not "fairly common". Given the number of Cavaliers in this country it is actually quite rare, but not unheard of, and has cropped up in a number of UK imported lines, hence many having imports MRI'd before coming out here. It is cheaper to have an MRI done in the UK but can cost up to $1000 here, and with many lines showing no sign of the disease the demand for MRI is fortunately not high. It is nowhere near as common in comparison to other diseases the breed can suffer from, but yes, like any disease it is devastating when it happens.

[Cavamum]

Thank you for your help! I chat on another forum where most of the people are from the UK, USA and Ireland and it is making me paranoid because almost everyone on that forum it seems has or has had a ckcs with SM.

[Gretel]

SM has caused a lot of hype and carry on since the BBC show was aired. Unfortunately many Cavaliers are now being 'diagnosed' as suffering it without any actual proof. Some dogs do just scratch. Yes it is in the breed but it's not every dog that scratches that has it. Unless your dog is actually distressed or in pain I wouldn't be worrying overly at this stage.

[Jed]

My boy has COMS (Caudal Occipital Malformation Syndrome), but not Syringomyelia. Confirmed by MRI.

I have a three month old puppy that I bought from a breeder on DOL and she scratches at her face, ears and shoulders a lot. I know it is early days but does anyone know if I could get an MRI scan done and how much it would cost since I am not a breeder? Can I get it done with the KC?

Unless things have changed, I don't think SM can be diagnosed at 3 months. I think it is probably too young for symptoms to appear.

Check the information page on SM on the UK Cavalier Club website. If you care to pm me with the name of the breeder, and a couple of generations of pedigree, I can tell you whether there may be SM in the line.

Privately

[~Anne~]

Thank you for your help! I chat on another forum where most of the people are from the UK, USA and Ireland and it is making me paranoid because almost everyone on that forum it seems has or has had a ckcs with SM.

It's the same with Pug Dog Encephalitis which is becoming more common in Aus but is very common in other countries. With luck our breeders will ensure this horrible condition remains in the 'not so common' category here.

[Victoria_g06]

I know a couple with a pair of pet Cavs and one has been diagnosed and displays outward signs of it. I think it's fairly common.

No. it is not "fairly common". Given the number of Cavaliers in this country it is actually quite rare, but not unheard of, and has cropped up in a number of UK imported lines, hence many having imports MRI'd before coming out here. It is cheaper to have an MRI done in the UK but can cost up to $1000 here, and with many lines showing no sign of the disease the demand for MRI is fortunately not high. It is nowhere near as common in comparison to other diseases the breed can suffer from, but yes, like any disease it is devastating when it happens.

My MRI was $1,700 last January.

SM has caused a lot of hype and carry on since the BBC show was aired. Unfortunately many Cavaliers are now being 'diagnosed' as suffering it without any actual proof. Some dogs do just scratch. Yes it is in the breed but it's not every dog that scratches that has it. Unless your dog is actually distressed or in pain I wouldn't be worrying overly at this stage. :)

I beg to differ, if the dog is in pain then it is WAY TOO LATE. The dog then actually will live with permanent pain, not tingly sensations - actual constant pain. The disease needs to be caught BEFORE any episodes of pain. And I'm not sure what vets are 'diagnosing' the disease without any proof because I had to wait a year while they went through ALL other alternatives. (Meanwhile the disease was progressing)

[LizT]

I know a couple with a pair of pet Cavs and one has been diagnosed and displays outward signs of it. I think it's fairly common.

No. it is not "fairly common". Given the number of Cavaliers in this country it is actually quite rare, but not unheard of, and has cropped up in a number of UK imported lines, hence many having imports MRI'd before coming out here. It is cheaper to have an MRI done in the UK but can cost up to $1000 here, and with many lines showing no sign of the disease the demand for MRI is fortunately not high. It is nowhere near as common in comparison to other diseases the breed can suffer from, but yes, like any disease it is devastating when it happens.

My MRI was $1,700 last January.

SM has caused a lot of hype and carry on since the BBC show was aired. Unfortunately many Cavaliers are now being 'diagnosed' as suffering it without any actual proof. Some dogs do just scratch. Yes it is in the breed but it's not every dog that scratches that has it. Unless your dog is actually distressed or in pain I wouldn't be worrying overly at this stage. :)

I beg to differ, if the dog is in pain then it is WAY TOO LATE. The dog then actually will live with permanent pain, not tingly sensations - actual constant pain. The disease needs to be caught BEFORE any episodes of pain. And I'm not sure what vets are 'diagnosing' the disease without any proof because I had to wait a year while they went through ALL other alternatives. (Meanwhile the disease was progressing)

So sorry to hear your dog has suffered with this terrible condition. I think the problem is the high cost of an MRI makes vets look at all other possible causes and conditions before resorting to making a client pay such a bill if not deemed entirely necessary. I can't understand why it would take a whole year to get a confirmed diagnosis, and to implement a treatment plan, unless, they were waiting for more symptoms to develop?

Unfortunately MRI of breeding stock cannot guarantee that they or their offspring will remain clear and not develop the condition either.

[Victoria_g06]

So sorry to hear your dog has suffered with this terrible condition. I think the problem is the high cost of an MRI makes vets look at all other possible causes and conditions before resorting to making a client pay such a bill if not deemed entirely necessary. I can't understand why it would take a whole year to get a confirmed diagnosis, and to implement a treatment plan, unless, they were waiting for more symptoms to develop?

Unfortunately MRI of breeding stock cannot guarantee that they or their offspring will remain clear and not develop the condition either.

Yeah, Unfortunately I did raise the issue of SM but my vet at the time (Not regular) dismissed it. I think the vets just had no cases that they had seen or they just didn't think the signs warranted any further action. It was a hard 6 months of drugs before surgery needed to be done. Even that was an episode in itself. - All Victorian owners beware of Melbourne Uni Vet Hospital in Werribee. We were treated very badly and they cared more about my money than actually focusing on the issue.

*rant over* I am thankful every day that Anouk is still with me and seemingly not progressing in the disease.

[Jed]

So sorry to hear your dog has suffered with this terrible condition. I think the problem is the high cost of an MRI makes vets look at all other possible causes and conditions before resorting to making a client pay such a bill if not deemed entirely necessary. I can't understand why it would take a whole year to get a confirmed diagnosis, and to implement a treatment plan, unless, they were waiting for more symptoms to develop?

Unfortunately MRI of breeding stock cannot guarantee that they or their offspring will remain clear and not develop the condition either.

Yeah, Unfortunately I did raise the issue of SM but my vet at the time (Not regular) dismissed it. I think the vets just had no cases that they had seen or they just didn't think the signs warranted any further action. It was a hard 6 months of drugs before surgery needed to be done. Even that was an episode in itself. - All Victorian owners beware of Melbourne Uni Vet Hospital in Werribee. We were treated very badly and they cared more about my money than actually focusing on the issue.

*rant over* I am thankful every day that Anouk is still with me and seemingly not progressing in the disease.

I hope you don't mind talking about this? May I ask what you noticed wrong with Anouk? She had symptoms of course, but what? Did you suspect SM at any stage? Did you suggest to the vet that it was SM, or did that idea come from somewhere else? If the dog is from a reputable breeder, have you told them, and have you been able to discover whether the parents/relations had SM too? Medically, what has been done to relieve the symptoms? Did it work?

Obviously, I am interested in this, and I would be very grateful if you could reply.

[Victoria_g06]

I hope you don't mind talking about this? May I ask what you noticed wrong with Anouk? She had symptoms of course, but what? Did you suspect SM at any stage? Did you suggest to the vet that it was SM, or did that idea come from somewhere else? If the dog is from a reputable breeder, have you told them, and have you been able to discover whether the parents/relations had SM too? Medically, what has been done to relieve the symptoms? Did it work?

Obviously, I am interested in this, and I would be very grateful if you could reply.

Hi Jed, I would love to talk about Anouk. People can only learn from my experience.

May I ask what you noticed wrong with Anouk?

When Anouk was about 1 year old I noticed when we went for walks she was bunny hopping a bit more than usual. She had a collar on so it was rubbing on her neck. (Bunning hopping is when she would try and scratch her neck and keep walking at the same time.)

She had symptoms of course, but what?

Bunning Hopping,

VERY sensitive on her left side of neck; so when I scratched it, that would cause instant scratching.

Head shaking, which was confusing because she did this when she had an ear infection, but she also continued after the ear infection was gone,

The big one would be when she yelped for no reason then put herself to bed.- After this stage she would have the below trouble

Restless / Unable to get comfortable (She still suffers from this)

Only would get comfortable when her head was raised on a pillow/surface (Still loves to do this)

Did you suspect SM at any stage?

After the yelping, I thought there must be something wrong for her to act in the weird way. I googled it and was terrified.

Did you suggest to the vet that it was SM, or did that idea come from somewhere else?

I suggested it was SM after she yelped. The vet had no idea and diagnosed Atopy (Allergic Reaction) Even though she had no proof to what she was allergic to. (Must have guessed because it was Spring)

If the dog is from a reputable breeder, have you told them, and have you been able to discover whether the parents/relations had SM too?

I thought she was from a reputable breeder, but the minute I told her she denied that ANY of her dogs has SM. Though she never said that they had an MRI to confirm this. So I would have no idea.

Medically, what has been done to relieve the symptoms? Did it work?

From January last year to May she had been on a variety of drugs - Prednisolone was the main one. WARNING - This causes weight gain/ thirstiness and by April she had severe diarrhea that she had to be hospitalised for 4 days!

By March though we had already decided for surgery.

There were two options

(a) Removing some of the skull to allow the brain some extra space; Cost estimate $6,000, years of life extended 3-4

(b) Installing a shunt that automatically drains excess CSF (Spinal fluid) into the belly cavity; Cost estimate $3,500, years of life extended 6-7

The drugs weren't having much of an effect and I didn't want to keep her on them for long periods

April delayed the surgery because of the diarrea so we had to wait until June.

June 30 was surgery day - we had chosen (b) due to cost and years of life extended.

Now I'm sure Anouk was a special case but the surgery did not go well as we thought. A week after taking her home she developed lazy eyes as I call it. Both eyes would turn outwards and they turned red.

Now this is where I get frustrated. Because the surgeons DID NOT want to claim responsibility; they diagnosed a new problem and said it had nothing to do with the surgery. They diagnosed an eye irritaion (From what?) And gave me cream to put on her eyes. (This was after a weekend in hospital $1,700 more dollars, total was around $5,000 because they refused to see this as due to the surgery!)

She got worse. After two weeks she was blind.

Right, the surgeons actually paid attention then.. took her in and discovered she had fluid on her brain. This was what caused her blindness. Luckily they were clever enough not to charge me for that surgery.

Immediately she was better and we could take her home.

After a month she was back to playing with her toys, and almost a year later she hasn't progressed much with more symptoms.

Oh sorry for hijacking the last Q with a detailed account. Unfortunately that part wasn't as straight forward as I would like.

[Jed]

Thankyou for that. Because I have Cavs - and have never seen one with SM - I am very interested. Shocking about the vets/operation. There is a dog on facebook, who has had an operation (not sure which one) for SM, and so far, he is going well. He is in UK, so surgeons have more experience. We are all hopeful he will recover completely.

I am so pleased for you that she is ok now, but you have certainly had a rough journey. And, so sad about the breeder, who must not understand that even if her dogs were MRI'd and had no syrinxes, and were classed A for breeding, they could still throw a pup with SM. At that time, a bit of moral support from the breeder would have been very helpful. I have to wonder just how much the breeder did know about SM.

I have been fortunate in not having a dog with SM, or who threw it. Whilst I think perhaps that MRI screening is a good idea, I think there should be a register of dogs with SM, and their pedigrees and it should be available to all.

I just think - for no good reason - that there is more to SM than syrinxes or no syrinxes.

I am sorry you have had to go through all this, but I am happy for you that Anouk is pain free. Good on you for doing what needed to be done. :)