This Might Annoy People

[Bartok]

My friend and I have been debating about dogs and doggie things.

One thing she was saying to me is that she would NEVER have dogs around kids - no kind of dog at all...

Now with Max and Jenna, I wouldn't even hesitate, I know what they're like around kids. Of course I would NEVER leave them unattended... but I wouldn't have a problem with my kids being around dogs... I would actually WANT my kids to be around dogs so they can learn how to treat them and behave around them...

Also, she was saying that she would want a labrador because they have a much gentler and calmer temperament than other breeds... this got us into a debate with deed not breed stuff... She didn't actually say it but I felt like she was saying that other types of breeds (such a GSDs) would be more likely to turn...

I don't know how to feel about this... what do you guys think about what she was saying?

My labrador is the last of my dogs i would trust around kids

He doesnt like small dogs or any dogs in his face and he has

snapped more then once when dogs have done it

My Rottwieler and my recently passed GSD I would have no issues with them

and kids at all.

[megan_]

Dogs to be good around the kids needing solid nerve is most important and is the weak nerve and resource guarding trait causing most danger for the kids.Joe

Finally I have something to agree with you about!

The problem is that many people - and I see this advertised on some rescues a bit - think the quiet, more shy dog is the best choice for a family and think they're more gentle. I have one happy, go-lucky dog and a shy, very nervous dog who was abused. People are always trying to pat and interact with the basket case!

I think the level of paranoia is an issue these days, but also the temp of dogs today is an issue. When I was a kid, dogs that didn't have solid nerves went to heaven. Full stop. Even on this forum, when a DOLer was at a cross-roads about PTS a dog with aggression issues that she had tried to sort out for years(DA, but impacting her family life significantly) there were still people saying how bad it would be to PTS the dog. My sister has a chi that has bitten and attacked many people. She has sought help and the problem is still bad. Yet various family members and friends are horrified that she'd consider PTS, even though this dog bites while supervised and has bitten her toddler on the face!

We also need to remember that not that long ago, we didn't have the interwebs so if a kid was mauled the town over, we might never hear of it.

[john.davey.1960]

No such thing as a dog that "turns". Dogs do what they do for a range of reasons. The fact that some folk can't read a dog or identify a trigger for behaviour doesn't change that.

Good family dogs are made, not born. Breed alone is NEVER a guarantee of safety around children and young kids should never be without supervision around dogs - for both safety of both.

Dogs cannot form a social bond with kids if they never see them and kids cannot learn to behave appropriately around dogs (and to enjoy them) if they don't get to interact with them.

I'd have no dog before I'd attempt to completely separate them in a family 24/7. It sure wouldn't be much of a life for the dog.

Spot on

[budgiew]

I also grew up in the 60;There was a kelpie x that came to school every lunch time and played ball on the oval and got fed leftover lunches. Another time 3 wandering dogs came around and one bit a little boy.After that the principal banned dogs from the school grounds and the ranger was called if any strays were around.There was an old labrador that did the trip down the street to the butcher for a bone.We had Alsations in the street that never left there yard and i did worry about them escaping.When i walked to school with my brother I was always bailed up by a neighbours Basenji that was often on the loose.It would put it;s paws on my shoulders and would growl if i moved .My brother just 7 year old had to chase the dog off.The Basenji killed every cat in the street,including our 3 kittens.After that my dad and half the street complained, and the dog was got rid of.I am glad we have stricter laws about keeping dogs these days much safer i think.

[sas]

I Personaly believe that dogs don't have the temperaments they used to and that's why some people would feel iffy about dogs around kids in some instances, I think on a whole 20-30 years ago your average family pet was a well temperamented dog...why was that....well it could have to do with all sorts of variables from genetics to the fact we were a hell of a lot harsher on dogs dicipline wise back then

[budgiew]

I Personaly believe that dogs don't have the temperaments they used to and that's why some people would feel iffy about dogs around kids in some instances, I think on a whole 20-30 years ago your average family pet was a well temperamented dog...why was that....well it could have to do with all sorts of variables from genetics to the fact we were a hell of a lot harsher on dogs dicipline wise back then

I agree,Families were big then often 6 or more children. Dogs were treated like dogs not babies.

[poodlefan]

I Personaly believe that dogs don't have the temperaments they used to and that's why some people would feel iffy about dogs around kids in some instances, I think on a whole 20-30 years ago your average family pet was a well temperamented dog...why was that....well it could have to do with all sorts of variables from genetics to the fact we were a hell of a lot harsher on dogs dicipline wise back then

I think its us that's changed, not dogs.

In an age of nuclear families, helicopter parenting, dogggie dresses, BSL and buying dogs without seeing their mums, I think parents are more protective of kids and less understanding of canine behaviour.

Dogs have been biting kids since the first ones gathered round the campfire. It think its how we look at the incidents and react to them that have changed.

The further we live isolated from nature and the more we wrap kids in cotton wool, the sadder it gets for dogs and children IMO.

[raz]

The further we live isolated from nature and the more we wrap kids in cotton wool, the sadder it gets for dogs and children IMO.

I dont wrap kids in cotton wool. I wrap my dogs in cotton wool. I dont want children near my dogs.

[persephone]

I Personaly believe that dogs don't have the temperaments they used to and that's why some people would feel iffy about dogs around kids in some instances, I think on a whole 20-30 years ago your average family pet was a well temperamented dog...why was that....well it could have to do with all sorts of variables from genetics to the fact we were a hell of a lot harsher on dogs dicipline wise back then

I think its us that's changed, not dogs.

In an age of nuclear families, helicopter parenting, dogggie dresses, BSL and buying dogs without seeing their mums, I think parents are more protective of kids and less understanding of canine behaviour.

Dogs have been biting kids since the first ones gathered round the campfire. It think its how we look at the incidents and react to them that have changed.

The further we live isolated from nature and the more we wrap kids in cotton wool, the sadder it gets for dogs and children IMO.

yes to both.

where's that 'like' button ?;)

[poodlefan]

The further we live isolated from nature and the more we wrap kids in cotton wool, the sadder it gets for dogs and children IMO.

I dont wrap kids in cotton wool. I wrap my dogs in cotton wool. I dont want children near my dogs.

Two of my dogs love kids. The other two are kept well away from them.

Edited May 13, 2011 by poodlefan

[raz]

My dogs love kids as well but speaking to a parent recently who laughed about his little kid killing the family pet, I'm sorta no go on children near my dogs these days. He can go and play on the freeway instead of getting access to my dogs

eta I blame his stupid parents but I still dont want him anywhere near my dogs

Edited May 13, 2011 by raz

[persephone]

who laughed about his little kid killing the family pet,

[Leelaa17]

speaking to a parent recently who laughed about his little kid killing the family pet

what?!?!?!?!?!?!?! what kind of animal was it????

[Greytmate]

My friend and I have been debating about dogs and doggie things.

One thing she was saying to me is that she would NEVER have dogs around kids - no kind of dog at all...

Now with Max and Jenna, I wouldn't even hesitate, I know what they're like around kids. Of course I would NEVER leave them unattended... but I wouldn't have a problem with my kids being around dogs... I would actually WANT my kids to be around dogs so they can learn how to treat them and behave around them...

Also, she was saying that she would want a labrador because they have a much gentler and calmer temperament than other breeds... this got us into a debate with deed not breed stuff... She didn't actually say it but I felt like she was saying that other types of breeds (such a GSDs) would be more likely to turn...

I don't know how to feel about this... what do you guys think about what she was saying?

I wouldn't be calling it a debate. I would be acknowledging that she didn't have the skills or experience to judge dog behaviour to know whether a dog was a threat or not, and therefore she and her children should not go near any dog unless somebody competant is around. That is fair enough.

If she never gets her own dog, she will never learn about dogs and she will never know how to tell a good one from one that isn't.

I would then ridicule her for suggesting that she knew enough about dogs to talk about different breed temperaments. The conversation would be over then, unless she agreed to be quiet and listen sensibly.

[Leelaa17]

My friend and I have been debating about dogs and doggie things.

One thing she was saying to me is that she would NEVER have dogs around kids - no kind of dog at all...

Now with Max and Jenna, I wouldn't even hesitate, I know what they're like around kids. Of course I would NEVER leave them unattended... but I wouldn't have a problem with my kids being around dogs... I would actually WANT my kids to be around dogs so they can learn how to treat them and behave around them...

Also, she was saying that she would want a labrador because they have a much gentler and calmer temperament than other breeds... this got us into a debate with deed not breed stuff... She didn't actually say it but I felt like she was saying that other types of breeds (such a GSDs) would be more likely to turn...

I don't know how to feel about this... what do you guys think about what she was saying?

I wouldn't be calling it a debate. I would be acknowledging that she didn't have the skills or experience to judge dog behaviour to know whether a dog was a threat or not, and therefore she and her children should not go near any dog unless somebody competant is around. That is fair enough.

If she never gets her own dog, she will never learn about dogs and she will never know how to tell a good one from one that isn't.

I would then ridicule her for suggesting that she knew enough about dogs to talk about different breed temperaments. The conversation would be over then, unless she agreed to be quiet and listen sensibly.

I can guarentee you should would debate her point until she died. She is unrelenting!!!

She is good though, she would agree with the statement that she and her children shouldn't go near dogs unless someone competent is around. But she would argue that she doesn't need to know a lot to talk about dog temperaments. Because she thinks she DOES know enough to make an educated decision.

She lives with me and my dad and his partner... therefore she also lives with Max and Jenna and (much older) Rashka and Dorris.

She didn't evewn go near Max and Jenna when we first moved back home, but she has warmed up VERY much to them, which makes me feel much better because it was hard for me to deal with the fact she didn't want to be anywhere near them (it's hard for me to deal with the fact that some people just don't like dogs!! lol).

So she is getting much MUCH better with max and jenna... but she was so so adament that she wouldn't let her child near dogs (for eg) max and jenna at all, not even with supervision because 'you never know' (that's what she said)...

And I said to her that I wouldn't even think twice about having kids around max and jenna under supervision.

[tdierikx]

Trouble (my Lab) LOVES kids... with a little sauce on the side please... *grin*

Seriously, I don't think there is any breed more or less likely to get on with children, or be better behaved, etc... it all comes down to how much effort YOU are willing to put in to get the dog that you want for your family. You get out what you put in basically...

T.

[Leelaa17]

Trouble (my Lab) LOVES kids... with a little sauce on the side please... *grin*

Seriously, I don't think there is any breed more or less likely to get on with children, or be better behaved, etc... it all comes down to how much effort YOU are willing to put in to get the dog that you want for your family. You get out what you put in basically...

T.

That's exactly what I kept trying to tell her. That it was how you raise them. But for some reason she was adament that some were more prone to attacking or 'turning' than others and that others (labs) had a more gentle nature..... she just wouldn't listen when I said that it is how YOU raise them, not what kind of breed they are. She really gave me the poos.

[Aidan3]

Trouble (my Lab) LOVES kids... with a little sauce on the side please... *grin*

Seriously, I don't think there is any breed more or less likely to get on with children, or be better behaved, etc... it all comes down to how much effort YOU are willing to put in to get the dog that you want for your family. You get out what you put in basically...

T.

That's exactly what I kept trying to tell her. That it was how you raise them. But for some reason she was adament that some were more prone to attacking or 'turning' than others and that others (labs) had a more gentle nature..... she just wouldn't listen when I said that it is how YOU raise them, not what kind of breed they are. She really gave me the poos.

In a sense she is right. It's not entirely nurture and it's not entirely nature. Over-representation of breeds in bite statistics is partly due to breed characteristics (wanted or unwanted) and partly due to the demographic of their owners. Dog owners can do a lot to keep risks down and so can parents of children.

[TrinaJ]

I've not read all the replies but from the sounds of it your friend is very ignorant and quite happy to be that way... Unfortunately not everyone wants to be educated on how to raise dogs and children together and the importance of it, they would rather bury their heads in the sand

[Souff]

My friend and I have been debating about dogs and doggie things.

One thing she was saying to me is that she would NEVER have dogs around kids - no kind of dog at all...

Now with Max and Jenna, I wouldn't even hesitate, I know what they're like around kids. Of course I would NEVER leave them unattended... but I wouldn't have a problem with my kids being around dogs... I would actually WANT my kids to be around dogs so they can learn how to treat them and behave around them...

Also, she was saying that she would want a labrador because they have a much gentler and calmer temperament than other breeds... this got us into a debate with deed not breed stuff... She didn't actually say it but I felt like she was saying that other types of breeds (such a GSDs) would be more likely to turn...

I don't know how to feel about this... what do you guys think about what she was saying?

Nah, your friend has got it all back to front. KIDS should not be around dogs.

We need some KSL around here, kid specific legislation, to protect dogs from some of the little beasties.

Souff had a cat once that never liked a visiting child. Cat used to bolt up to the top of the hot water tank and hiss at this child. Kid grew up to be an unsavoury adult. Animals know.

Oh, and if your friend believes that all Labs are gentle souls, tell her to talk to some of the vets and vet nurses.

They have very mixed opinions about today's Labs. Poor Labs, seems that the old gentle giants that used to romp with the kids on the lawn became unfashionable some years back and they just had to be bred smaller. Give me the old gentle giants any day.

Souff