Obedience Trialling A Blind Dog

[Staranais]

You won't get pinged if he maintains contact as long as he is in correct heel position. I would re-train him to maintain a touch with his shoulder to your leg (or hip depending on relative heights) You could make a case to have permission to trial him on the right and write in to your governing body and if you do get permission you would have to carry your letter of permission to every trial.

I would try other methods first though.

Well done on your CCD

Yes, my girl heels like this as it is the required heeling style over here.

I used clicker training & a no-reward mark to guide her until she understood the concept of just a feather-light but consistent touch on my leg (rather than bumping my leg, or pushing into me). Do lots of left turn work to make sure she doesn't crab.

She still needs head cues for turns, though, it would be more difficult if she couldn't see those.

Good luck!

[RallyValley]

Sorry to go off topic but I would love to see picture or video's of these types of heel styles people are describing?

[JulesP]

Sorry to go off topic but I would love to see picture or video's of these types of heel styles people are describing?

Google crufts obedience for the extreme version

[Staranais]

I haven't got any recent photos or film of my girl, RallyVally, but this is an example of the style of kennel club heeling that we are supposed to aspire to over here; extremely precise and very close. This lady in the video is trialling in the highest class (I don't know her, just found her nice clip on Youtube):

[RallyValley]

I haven't got any recent photos or film of my girl, RallyVally, but this is an example of the style of kennel club heeling that we are supposed to aspire to over here; extremely precise and very close. This lady in the video is trialling in the highest class (I don't know her, just found her nice clip on Youtube):

Interesting... I just had a google and if anyone else is curious this is what a US National Obedience winner looks like... two very extreme differences right?!? (So sorry to the OP for taking your thread futher OT!!!)

ETA - found a more recent example!

Edited May 11, 2011 by RallyValley

[OSoSwift]

The Goldie sin't close to her leg? I guess that is the difference you are pointing out? If that is what I was supposed to tbe seeing?

Lewis works closer than that and he does brush my leg very lightly, he does move out of the way and doesn't wack into my legs or anything though. I was told by only two different judges, that is working style is excellent.

Edited May 11, 2011 by OSoSwift

[Leema]

Nope!!!! For this you will likely get pinged! Good thought but not worth the hassles.

My only other suggestion would be - can you wear something subtly-noisey? Bangles on your wrist, or a buckle that clicks on your shoe? Keep your keys in your pocket? All these could help him orientate without seeing you.

However, I much prefer teaching him to target your leg - just thought I'd throw this out there, too.

You would not allow someone to have their keys in their pocket during a trial?

You would ask someone to take their jewelry off?

I've never heard of such a thing.

[Staranais]

Yes, the goldie looks really far from her leg to me, and also doesn't always stay a consistent distance from her leg in the figure 8 - from what I've seen of the judging here, she'd never win a trial here with over 90% of the marks (which is what is required here to advance in Ob). But clearly that style is what is ideal in American obedience, whereas probably they'd penalise our competitors for crowding. Vive la difference, I guess!

Lewis has very nice attention.

[RallyValley]

Yes it's amazing the contrast between what was the top dog at a national obedience trial in the USA and the NZ/UK style you posted Staranis. I think that Lewis is perfectly between the two oso and that would be my personal preference, but on the other hand I don't think any are 'wrong' either

[bedazzledx2]

There was a competitor a few years ago who used to have a large bunch of keys that rattled as they walked and when they did fast pace...wow! Jingle jingle!!! It was clearly an aid to the dog and after a while the judges started to ask them to remove the keys and leave them with someone when they were in the ring.

Nope!!!! For this you will likely get pinged! Good thought but not worth the hassles.

My only other suggestion would be - can you wear something subtly-noisey? Bangles on your wrist, or a buckle that clicks on your shoe? Keep your keys in your pocket? All these could help him orientate without seeing you.

However, I much prefer teaching him to target your leg - just thought I'd throw this out there, too.

You would not allow someone to have their keys in their pocket during a trial?

You would ask someone to take their jewelry off?

I've never heard of such a thing.

[Romysaxon]

Hello

I am currently obedience trialling my three year old weimaraner, Saxon, who is blind in the right eye. We have successfully titled in CCD, however now that we have stepped up into Novice, are having difficulties with the heeling. The main problem is that because he cannot see me at all out of the right eye, he severely lags in his heeling and I have difficulty with him doing about turns, right turns and the figure of eight. I have changed a few things to help him out and of course encourage him during training, but obviously in the trial ring, you are unable to use additional commands or speak to them. Does anyone have any suggestions I could try and/or know of anyone else who has trialled a dog with a vision impairment?

I know the difficulties you have. My own dog is blind in her right eye! We too have our CCD title and we're just about to start Novice trialling!

I would firstly take a look at whether the dog truly does know heel position. If you leave him in a sit and walk a metre away and call him to heel, does he go to the correct position? Can he do the same thing if you are walking past him and call him to heel? I would suggest reinforce, reinforce and reinforce with lots of food, praise, toys that hel position, ie on your left seam, is where the good stuff happens. I have taught my girl to heel close just touching, in a slightly wrap position, her head is up and so she can just see my face (problem of having big boobs) with her good eye.

I do have some trouble with left about turns but that could be my footwork! I train my dog as if she is not "vision impaired". She doesnt think she's got a problem! When I do run into a problem in general though, I think through whether it is me or her vision. I have to remember to keep my left hand in a certain position as on occasion she's jumped up while in position and she's got a poke in the eye, poor thing! I cannot get her to come in super close for a front so I've accepted more distance than I'd like, but again I'm continuously working on it.. I do have a problem with distractions as she is inclined to turn her whole head and stare rather than glance but I'm working on it and there are times I wonder whether this is more because she is a working breed (koolie) than a vision problem.

[Romysaxon]

Thanks Jigsaw...it is great to hear that there are others out there trying to trail with vision impaired dogs!!! Go us :-) I will try what you suggested as well. I tend to have trouble with the right hand stuff (and it only seems to be in the heeling) because he just does not see.....for the left, I am ensuring I get just a half step in front of him before turning and this seems to work for us. I know Saxon also has a problem with depth of field, however we have worked on that also (sometimes he just nearly pushed me over by running into me before stopping!) Distractions are an issue for me also, I put it down to him lacking concentration...however again it is something we are working on. Good luck with your trialling career - please keep in touch and let me know how you do!

[Romysaxon]

We have been chatting about all your suggestions guys at my training school, does anyone have any links, DVD's etc they could suggest for us to watch re: target training - we understand the concept, however would like to see how it works!

[Jigsaw]

I do occasionally lose her on right turns if she is distracted. Was Saxon born with vision problems or was it acquired through injury or illness? My girl has micropthalmia. We have depth of field problems with catching stuff! I love it when she actually catches something! I don't think she's too bad until I see someone else's dog snapping food out of the air! I don't push her to do jumping at night either just in case.

I like the Ivan Balabanov DVDs for heel position and head position. I didn't train exactly like that but tweaked it a bit and certainly some great ideas.

Something that is not noisy that might help your dog know where you are is to use a scent on your wrist (like lavender) or perhaps dabbed on your pants, but remember this will be pretty strong for your dog's sensitive nose. It maybe something to consider with initial training and once he's got the position down pat and is more consistent wean off the scent.

[Romysaxon]

I do occasionally lose her on right turns if she is distracted. Was Saxon born with vision problems or was it acquired through injury or illness? My girl has micropthalmia. We have depth of field problems with catching stuff! I love it when she actually catches something! I don't think she's too bad until I see someone else's dog snapping food out of the air! I don't push her to do jumping at night either just in case.

I like the Ivan Balabanov DVDs for heel position and head position. I didn't train exactly like that but tweaked it a bit and certainly some great ideas.

Something that is not noisy that might help your dog know where you are is to use a scent on your wrist (like lavender) or perhaps dabbed on your pants, but remember this will be pretty strong for your dog's sensitive nose. It maybe something to consider with initial training and once he's got the position down pat and is more consistent wean off the scent.

[Romysaxon]

I do occasionally lose her on right turns if she is distracted. Was Saxon born with vision problems or was it acquired through injury or illness? My girl has micropthalmia. We have depth of field problems with catching stuff! I love it when she actually catches something! I don't think she's too bad until I see someone else's dog snapping food out of the air! I don't push her to do jumping at night either just in case.

I like the Ivan Balabanov DVDs for heel position and head position. I didn't train exactly like that but tweaked it a bit and certainly some great ideas.

Something that is not noisy that might help your dog know where you are is to use a scent on your wrist (like lavender) or perhaps dabbed on your pants, but remember this will be pretty strong for your dog's sensitive nose. It maybe something to consider with initial training and once he's got the position down pat and is more consistent wean off the scent.

Saxon we believe was born with his problem - he has a detached retina. We first noticed it at around 17-18 weeks old and the specialist advised me that it was "long standing". He started out having about 5% sight, however now he is totally blind. Unfortunately there is no surgery to correct it, so he (and I) have learned to live with it. In saying that, he is now pretty well adjusted...sometimes he just forgets to concentrate and walks into things LOL :-) It is amazing to watch him grow as all his other senses have heightened! He is showing a lot of promise with the tracking...and it is fantastic to watch him do something that comes so naturally.

[JulesP]

I asked today at club and whilst different judges might judge differently it was thought that the dog touching your leg would be seen as crowding in Victoria. So I would check in Tassie before I started training that sort of position.

[Staranais]

Just out of interest - when a judge feels that the NZ/UK style is crowding, how many points are usually deducted for that? Would it still be possible for a team heeling in that style to qualify in Aussie, or would too many points be deducted for that?

[JulesP]

Just out of interest - when a judge feels that the NZ/UK style is crowding, how many points are usually deducted for that? Would it still be possible for a team heeling in that style to qualify in Aussie, or would too many points be deducted for that?

Don't know Staranais. I would have to ask. I guess it would depend if the judge felt the dog was out of position for the whole round.

[Staranais]

Just out of interest - when a judge feels that the NZ/UK style is crowding, how many points are usually deducted for that? Would it still be possible for a team heeling in that style to qualify in Aussie, or would too many points be deducted for that?

Don't know Staranais. I would have to ask. I guess it would depend if the judge felt the dog was out of position for the whole round.

Could you ask? I'd really appreciate it. It's just for pure selfish curiosity - I'm wondering whether if I ever end up in Aussie, if I'll need to retrain my heeling! Since my dog would indeed be in the "crowded" NZ/UK style position for the entire round.