Obedience Trialling A Blind Dog

[Romysaxon]

Hello

I am currently obedience trialling my three year old weimaraner, Saxon, who is blind in the right eye. We have successfully titled in CCD, however now that we have stepped up into Novice, are having difficulties with the heeling. The main problem is that because he cannot see me at all out of the right eye, he severely lags in his heeling and I have difficulty with him doing about turns, right turns and the figure of eight. I have changed a few things to help him out and of course encourage him during training, but obviously in the trial ring, you are unable to use additional commands or speak to them. Does anyone have any suggestions I could try and/or know of anyone else who has trialled a dog with a vision impairment?

[LilBailey]

Hello

I am currently obedience trialling my three year old weimaraner, Saxon, who is blind in the right eye. We have successfully titled in CCD, however now that we have stepped up into Novice, are having difficulties with the heeling. The main problem is that because he cannot see me at all out of the right eye, he severely lags in his heeling and I have difficulty with him doing about turns, right turns and the figure of eight. I have changed a few things to help him out and of course encourage him during training, but obviously in the trial ring, you are unable to use additional commands or speak to them. Does anyone have any suggestions I could try and/or know of anyone else who has trialled a dog with a vision impairment?

Are you aloud to trial him heeling on the right as he has a disability???

What if you had him looking in to you more so that he could see both you and where he was going with his left eye. I'm thinking of those dogs you see that have almost got there head on backwards they are staring into the face of the handler??

[The Spotted Devil]

That's not easy! Congratulations on your CCD title

What is his head position when trialling? In CCD the lead is supposed to be loose so do you know what other cues he was using to hold the heel position? I think videos would be extremely helpful - both on lead and off lead.

ETA: Just thinking that you could train him to target your hand/arm and hold your arm at a more formal angle.

Edited May 11, 2011 by The Spotted Devil

[ness]

Yeah my first thought was teach a targeting type behavior too. Should be doable with a weim to have them target a position on your body and remain in contact with that position.

[wuffles]

Well done for getting your CCD title!

Yep I was thinking targeting the arm or even targeting (actually touching) his head to your left leg. Might be uncomfortable for some dogs but it depends on the dog.

[OSoSwift]

I would suggest trying to get him to raise the angle that he hold his head so you have full and strong eye contact.

Well done for getting your CCD, you should be very proud of yourselves.

My friend is trialling a deaf dog and while we have to think outside the square she is going really well. She has also had some confidence issues which we are working on, but the main thing that is helping her is her focus and looking at her owners face.

I have attached a photo of what I am thinking about

Edited May 11, 2011 by OSoSwift

[bedazzledx2]

You won't get pinged if he maintains contact as long as he is in correct heel position. I would re-train him to maintain a touch with his shoulder to your leg (or hip depending on relative heights) You could make a case to have permission to trial him on the right and write in to your governing body and if you do get permission you would have to carry your letter of permission to every trial.

I would try other methods first though.

Well done on your CCD

[Romysaxon]

Thanks everyone for your speedy replies....you have definitely given me some ideas to work on. We have had to overcome some confidence issues as well, but all seems pretty good now - at one stage, I couldn't even get him away from our home!! I have actually written a letter to the TCA to see if they will give us a dispensation for the heeling (working on the fact that the regulations can be varied for "disabled people", so why not a dog) due to his impairment. Time will tell though :-) I am definitely proud of what we have achieved to date...we are also starting into our tracking this year (also with my girl Romy).

[RallyValley]

No advice just want to say well done. It's very inspiring and such a good rep for the breed.

They do lots of Rally-O stuff in Tasmania where you can talk to you dog the whole round, maybe have a look into this as something to try also

[Romysaxon]

No advice just want to say well done. It's very inspiring and such a good rep for the breed.

They do lots of Rally-O stuff in Tasmania where you can talk to you dog the whole round, maybe have a look into this as something to try also

[Romysaxon]

Thanks RallyValley

We actually do the Rally-O as well - it is not sanctioned here in Tassie as yet, but hopefully next year! He does love it and yes it is great as you can talk to them and even scratch them behind the ears to give them some encouragement!

[Leema]

My only other suggestion would be - can you wear something subtly-noisey? Bangles on your wrist, or a buckle that clicks on your shoe? Keep your keys in your pocket? All these could help him orientate without seeing you.

However, I much prefer teaching him to target your leg - just thought I'd throw this out there, too.

[poodlefan]

You won't get pinged if he maintains contact as long as he is in correct heel position. I would re-train him to maintain a touch with his shoulder to your leg (or hip depending on relative heights) You could make a case to have permission to trial him on the right and write in to your governing body and if you do get permission you would have to carry your letter of permission to every trial.

I would try other methods first though.

Well done on your CCD

I would talk to a few judges before training this. The Obedience Rules state that any physical guidance of, or assistance to the dog "must be penalised".

Disability laws don't apply to dogs. I wish you luck but am not certain about your chances of getting dispensation to heel him on your right. I wonder how much of his lagging is a confidence, rather than a visual impairment issue??

Edited May 11, 2011 by poodlefan

[ness]

bedazzledx2 is a judge so I am sure she knows what she is talking about poodlefan. I know bumping/crowding is penalised but what bedazzledx2 suggested is teaching a consistent position. Targetting a position isn't physical guidance - they mean actually manhandling the dog as far as I am aware - taking the dog by the collar in between exercise for instance.

[JulesP]

Not sure about Tassie but some judges will ping you in Victoria for the dog touching. They see it as crowding.

I actually don't think this a problem with the eyesight as you often see this happen when the dogs go off lead for novice. One of the ladies in the training thread was having the same lagging problem.

Going straight shouldn't be a problem if the dog really knows the heel position. For you turns try using a slightly smaller step and use your shoulders to indicate the turn. Really emphasis the body language for a while to give the dog clues as to were you are going. You will need to be a bit more subtle in the ring of course.

[poodlefan]

bedazzledx2 is a judge so I am sure she knows what she is talking about poodlefan. I know bumping/crowding is penalised but what bedazzledx2 suggested is teaching a consistent position. Targetting a position isn't physical guidance - they mean actually manhandling the dog as far as I am aware - taking the dog by the collar in between exercise for instance.

That's why I suggested the OP talk to more than one judge Ness.

I can think of other judges who would consider constant physical contact between dog and handler as an "unusual or additional act or command, which...gives the dog assistance". Some I know would ping a wrap style heel where the dog's head/neck is touching the handler as this. Turns are a particular sticking point for some.

Best to know if what you're going to train is going to be penalised IMO. Some judges want to see some daylight between dog and handler at all times in a heel pattern.

Edited May 11, 2011 by poodlefan

[bedazzledx2]

Nope!!!! For this you will likely get pinged! Good thought but not worth the hassles.

My only other suggestion would be - can you wear something subtly-noisey? Bangles on your wrist, or a buckle that clicks on your shoe? Keep your keys in your pocket? All these could help him orientate without seeing you.

However, I much prefer teaching him to target your leg - just thought I'd throw this out there, too.

[bedazzledx2]

A common misconception...if the dog is in correct heel position it will not be crowding nor impeding the handler. Many people cry foul when a judge pings them for crowding and interpret it as touching...it aint so! The dog does not have to be laying on as some of the UK ones do but a consistent mainainance of correct heel position is unlikely to be pinged.

Not sure about Tassie but some judges will ping you in Victoria for the dog touching. They see it as crowding.

I actually don't think this a problem with the eyesight as you often see this happen when the dogs go off lead for novice. One of the ladies in the training thread was having the same lagging problem.

Going straight shouldn't be a problem if the dog really knows the heel position. For you turns try using a slightly smaller step and use your shoulders to indicate the turn. Really emphasis the body language for a while to give the dog clues as to were you are going. You will need to be a bit more subtle in the ring of course.

[JulesP]

A common misconception...if the dog is in correct heel position it will not be crowding nor impeding the handler. Many people cry foul when a judge pings them for crowding and interpret it as touching...it aint so! The dog does not have to be laying on as some of the UK ones do but a consistent mainainance of correct heel position is unlikely to be pinged.

Not sure about Tassie but some judges will ping you in Victoria for the dog touching. They see it as crowding.

I actually don't think this a problem with the eyesight as you often see this happen when the dogs go off lead for novice. One of the ladies in the training thread was having the same lagging problem.

Going straight shouldn't be a problem if the dog really knows the heel position. For you turns try using a slightly smaller step and use your shoulders to indicate the turn. Really emphasis the body language for a while to give the dog clues as to were you are going. You will need to be a bit more subtle in the ring of course.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here bedazzledx2 as I know things are judged differently in different states.

[Jigsaw]

Hello

I am currently obedience trialling my three year old weimaraner, Saxon, who is blind in the right eye. We have successfully titled in CCD, however now that we have stepped up into Novice, are having difficulties with the heeling. The main problem is that because he cannot see me at all out of the right eye, he severely lags in his heeling and I have difficulty with him doing about turns, right turns and the figure of eight. I have changed a few things to help him out and of course encourage him during training, but obviously in the trial ring, you are unable to use additional commands or speak to them. Does anyone have any suggestions I could try and/or know of anyone else who has trialled a dog with a vision impairment?

I know the difficulties you have. My own dog is blind in her right eye! We too have our CCD title and we're just about to start Novice trialling!

I would firstly take a look at whether the dog truly does know heel position. If you leave him in a sit and walk a metre away and call him to heel, does he go to the correct position? Can he do the same thing if you are walking past him and call him to heel? I would suggest reinforce, reinforce and reinforce with lots of food, praise, toys that hel position, ie on your left seam, is where the good stuff happens. I have taught my girl to heel close just touching, in a slightly wrap position, her head is up and so she can just see my face (problem of having big boobs) with her good eye.

I do have some trouble with left about turns but that could be my footwork! I train my dog as if she is not "vision impaired". She doesnt think she's got a problem! When I do run into a problem in general though, I think through whether it is me or her vision. I have to remember to keep my left hand in a certain position as on occasion she's jumped up while in position and she's got a poke in the eye, poor thing! I cannot get her to come in super close for a front so I've accepted more distance than I'd like, but again I'm continuously working on it.. I do have a problem with distractions as she is inclined to turn her whole head and stare rather than glance but I'm working on it and there are times I wonder whether this is more because she is a working breed (koolie) than a vision problem.