Agressive Dog In Brighton Dog Park

[BoStoNmAdNeSs]

and this lady is absolutely 100% right about stopping a dog fight. The BEST way to stop a dog fight is to grab the back legs and pull, it is the least likely way to get bitten. If you have tried to grab the dog by the neck it would've bit you much easier than if you had it by the back legs.

The reason for this is because they lose their balance and can't turn their heads all the way around to grab you.

When dogs fight they grab each others necks (normally), so if you go grabbing a dog that is angry on the neck then it is more than likely going to turn around and bite you quite easily.

I know you responded on this comment to someone else and straight away acquiesced and said you might have been wrong then - so how the heck can you come out and state with authority that the lady is 100% correct? One minute you're stating you're inexperienced and then you're giving expert unsubstantiated advice? Crikey lady....if you are indeed on DOL to learn, then don't try and give expert advice if you're not experienced. Google 'breaking stick' - thats going to be something you can read up on for starters.

ETA - that a breaking stick is just ONE technique that can be effective. Theres been a number of threads here on DOL over the years on that one subject along with seperating fighting dogs.

I don't know about the pulling of the back legs - but my dad used to always lift his greyhounds back legs higher than their heads and they would instantly drop whatever they were on.

That wouldn't worry some dogs at all. Not the ones I've had experience with. Definitely don't know a lot about Greyhounds though. I would like to get a Rescue 'grey' one day when we get a bit more room and I've had done a bit more reading on them. I reckon they're terrific dogs.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Bullish

[Leelaa17]

and this lady is absolutely 100% right about stopping a dog fight. The BEST way to stop a dog fight is to grab the back legs and pull, it is the least likely way to get bitten. If you have tried to grab the dog by the neck it would've bit you much easier than if you had it by the back legs.

The reason for this is because they lose their balance and can't turn their heads all the way around to grab you.

When dogs fight they grab each others necks (normally), so if you go grabbing a dog that is angry on the neck then it is more than likely going to turn around and bite you quite easily.

I know you responded on this comment to someone else and straight away acquiesced and said you might have been wrong then - so how the heck can you come out and state with authority that the lady is 100% correct? One minute you're stating you're inexperienced and then you're giving expert unsubstantiated advice? Crikey lady....if you are indeed on DOL to learn, then don't try and give expert advice if you're not experienced. Google 'breaking stick' - thats going to be something you can read up on for starters.

ETA - that a breaking stick is just ONE technique that can be effective. Theres been a number of threads here on DOL over the years on that one subject along with seperating fighting dogs.

I don't know about the pulling of the back legs - but my dad used to always lift his greyhounds back legs higher than their heads and they would instantly drop whatever they were on.

That wouldn't worry some dogs at all. Not the ones I've had experience with. Definitely don't know a lot about Greyhounds though. I would like to get a Rescue 'grey' one day when we get a bit more room and I've had done a bit more reading on them. I reckon they're terrific dogs.

LOL! Calm down. S**t a brick! I THOUGHT at the time it was 100% correct. I have been told on many occassion that the best way is to grab the dog by the back legs and try to separate them - me saying pull probably wasn't the best word. And then when I realised I wasn't right I completely took the statement back didn't I?

I would be worried if I DIDN'T amend my statement and just left it like that. And I NEVER said I was an expert - people who have read my posts clearly KNOW I am not an expert and am just a dog owner. I thought I was 100% right and then corrected myself. It's not like the minute I said that someone was going to go out, see a dog fight, and try the technique I offered, were they? No.

So everyone who has read this thread have seen that they SHOULDN'T go and pull on a dogs back legs.

Gosh.

[BoStoNmAdNeSs]

LOL! Calm down. S**t a brick! I THOUGHT at the time it was 100% correct. I have been told on many occassion that the best way is to grab the dog by the back legs and try to separate them - me saying pull probably wasn't the best word. And then when I realised I wasn't right I completely took the statement back didn't I?

I would be worried if I DIDN'T amend my statement and just left it like that. And I NEVER said I was an expert - people who have read my posts clearly KNOW I am not an expert and am just a dog owner. I thought I was 100% right and then corrected myself. It's not like the minute I said that someone was going to go out, see a dog fight, and try the technique I offered, were they? No.

So everyone who has read this thread have seen that they SHOULDN'T go and pull on a dogs back legs.

Gosh.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Bullish

[JoeK]

People saying breed should not come into thinking on attack, but breed does present likelyhood more or less. When I walking my wife Labrador and see off leash dogs, different breeds causing me different levels of worry if the owner can handle them and if the dog has obedience if they see me and my dog and come rushing. I dont worry about little dogs, but if I see German Shepherd Dog, Belgian Malinois, Rottweiler, Doberman, Akita, Husky, Maremma, Cattle dog, Bull breedings and cross genes of these breeds on the loose, my worry level is higher than seeing Labrador, Standard Poodle, Cocker Spaniel, even Great Dane or softer dog you can shew him away more easily that dont having the genetic guts to engage a fight on those breeds.

Sure any dog has potential for biting but some breeds have more potential than others. Over the years I have had many dogs rush at me hundreds of times some for play some for aggression but on the aggression rushing most have been the breedings and cross genes on the dogs I mentioning causing me most worry is true. I have plenty Labrador and the Golden Retriever rushing for play, only one I remember aggression barking and one was Maremma I thinking was Golden Retriever. I have plenty Bull breedings rushing most aggressive only couple for play same for Shepherd Dogs and Rottweiler most rushing in defensive stand. In my opinion is bull to saying every breed is all the same on aggression potential is not true on my experiences.

Joe

[JoeK]

and this lady is absolutely 100% right about stopping a dog fight. The BEST way to stop a dog fight is to grab the back legs and pull, it is the least likely way to get bitten. If you have tried to grab the dog by the neck it would've bit you much easier than if you had it by the back legs.

The reason for this is because they lose their balance and can't turn their heads all the way around to grab you.

When dogs fight they grab each others necks (normally), so if you go grabbing a dog that is angry on the neck then it is more than likely going to turn around and bite you quite easily.

I know you responded on this comment to someone else and straight away acquiesced and said you might have been wrong then - so how the heck can you come out and state with authority that the lady is 100% correct? One minute you're stating you're inexperienced and then you're giving expert unsubstantiated advice? Crikey lady....if you are indeed on DOL to learn, then don't try and give expert advice if you're not experienced. Google 'breaking stick' - thats going to be something you can read up on for starters.

ETA - that a breaking stick is just ONE technique that can be effective. Theres been a number of threads here on DOL over the years on that one subject along with seperating fighting dogs.

I don't know about the pulling of the back legs - but my dad used to always lift his greyhounds back legs higher than their heads and they would instantly drop whatever they were on.

That wouldn't worry some dogs at all. Not the ones I've had experience with. Definitely don't know a lot about Greyhounds though. I would like to get a Rescue 'grey' one day when we get a bit more room and I've had done a bit more reading on them. I reckon they're terrific dogs.

Grabbing the back legs is the best way to braking dog fight when nothing else to use, but the problem is re engaging when you let him down to watching out for. Most dogs dont grab on harder and shocks them to releasing. You can tie a leash around the belly of the dog is someone to helping to hold is back legs off the ground until he settle, but is always possibility of getting bit in nasty circumstnce from fighting.

Joe

[corvus]

So everyone who has read this thread have seen that they SHOULDN'T go and pull on a dogs back legs.

Depends on the nature of the fight. I've broken up fights that way that were mostly noise. When my family was dealing with warring females, a vet behaviourist said get two people to grab the back legs of each dog and both should slowly walk backwards. I've seen a similar version using leashes as per JoeK's description recommended by a Pyrenean breeder. Apparently in the military they lift the dog's back legs up like with the Greyhounds. I've heard sticking a finger/hose up the dog's backside makes them let go. :p

[Nekhbet]

the trick is to grab the hind legs, lift the dog and apply gentle pressure. If you just pull the dogs will rip chunks out of each other. Once they let go you wheelbarrow them around. Problem with some breeds is the thrashing action that can do more damage especially in big vs small. Evenly matched sizes you wheelbarrow at least the offender and hold the other down to prevent movement. If it's big vs small you choke the life out of the big one with whatever you have at hand to prevent further biting or damage. Any panicking dog on lead if you hang it by its collar so the front paws are just off the ground at arms length you severely minimise your chance to be injured by the dog. Break sticks are all well and good if you know what you're doing and you have one with you.

Saying that, NEVER put your hands near dogs faces or where they can reach your body parts. Fighting dogs dont know what theyre doing and will grab whatever touches their jaws so most of the time a bite on you will be unintentional.

As for the taste of blood - wives tale. Turn on you - mmm extremely unlikely unless you keep provoking it or it's totally nuts but that's rare. Dog fights are horrific but the worst thing you can do is panic. If you got the license plate of the owner or at least some details, report to the council with photos. Patrolling rangers ill keep an eye out for him.

[megan_]

Mel- Joe do you choke a dog and not het yourself bitten

Edit: f($$&& iPhone auto correct. It should say "nek how do you choke adog andnot get bitten?"

Edited May 10, 2011 by megan_

[Nekhbet]

iphones pffft now you see why I dont own one LOL

if you can loop a leash around the dogs neck you have to put it high, just under the chin, and you have to pull hard. Having a leash is easier as when the dog lets go you can then keep it at arms length. If you have to take the leash off your own and onto the attacker then do it. Putting your hands on a strange dogs collar and doing it manually is not something you want to risk. Had to do it once but I knew the dog was not HA.

Like I said not something for novices at all, but if you're desperate cutting off a dogs air can work.

If in doubt always carry a big can of womens spray deoderant with you - into the mouth, nose and eyes, mouth first.

[persephone]

my hand is not holding up very well i have a massive bruise that hurts with 2 puncture wounds.

I hope you have been to a doctor!! That hand wound will probably need some treatment .... tetanus jab and antibiotics spring to mind.

Also - by going to a doctor ASAP and giving info- the bite is recorded should legal action be needed /taken at some stage ....

[HazyWal]

So everyone who has read this thread have seen that they SHOULDN'T go and pull on a dogs back legs.

Depends on the nature of the fight. I've broken up fights that way that were mostly noise. When my family was dealing with warring females, a vet behaviourist said get two people to grab the back legs of each dog and both should slowly walk backwards. I've seen a similar version using leashes as per JoeK's description recommended by a Pyrenean breeder. Apparently in the military they lift the dog's back legs up like with the Greyhounds. I've heard sticking a finger/hose up the dog's backside makes them let go. :p

Never had to lift my rescue greyhounds back legs they don't know how to fight LOL.Still get the same reaction at the dog park from some hysterical owners because my gentle giants wear muzzles(sigh so frustrating)and they're never off lead (unfenced)Have seen aggressive dogs at the park,both large and small not discriminating,yet my two still get the glare!Finger up the butt does work friend had to do it once to stop a large dog killing a small.

[Leelaa17]

my hand is not holding up very well i have a massive bruise that hurts with 2 puncture wounds.

I hope you have been to a doctor!! That hand wound will probably need some treatment .... tetanus jab and antibiotics spring to mind.

Also - by going to a doctor ASAP and giving info- the bite is recorded should legal action be needed /taken at some stage ....

This is completely OT, but if you get bitten by a dog and have had your regular 10-yearly tetnus shot, do you still need to go to the doctor and get anothet tetnus shot?

[jackie_a1]

This is why I don't recommend certain breeds at dog parks recipe for disaster. But like Kiera had said don't let that you make a judgement of all 'fighting' breeds. By the sounds of it the dog that attacked you was already fearful or prone to fear aggression. If it was timid and a bit quiet. That and a mixture of the fact of what (we assume) is its breed was just asking for trouble. If you got bitten I would report it. Just for the fact that the owners did not apologies or acknowledge there dog was in the wrong. HAD they have rushed over and apologised profusely you could have then recommended to them that their dog was not suited to this environment and that they should look into training etc. But because the owners were so arrogant and ignorant I think it's in everyones best interest you report it.

Next time that dog will pick a fight with a dog much stronger much bigger than itself and the solution will not be as simple as to pry them apart. I'm not one of those who advocates 'reporting' everything. But obviously the owners are a bigger danger than the dog itself so I would recommend you do.

Hope Jake isn't too scarred I know it only takes a quick attack to leave some dogs permanently scarred (mentally more so than physically.)

[toy dog]

This is why I don't recommend certain breeds at dog parks recipe for disaster. But like Kiera had said don't let that you make a judgement of all 'fighting' breeds. By the sounds of it the dog that attacked you was already fearful or prone to fear aggression. If it was timid and a bit quiet. That and a mixture of the fact of what (we assume) is its breed was just asking for trouble. If you got bitten I would report it. Just for the fact that the owners did not apologies or acknowledge there dog was in the wrong. HAD they have rushed over and apologised profusely you could have then recommended to them that their dog was not suited to this environment and that they should look into training etc. But because the owners were so arrogant and ignorant I think it's in everyones best interest you report it.

Next time that dog will pick a fight with a dog much stronger much bigger than itself and the solution will not be as simple as to pry them apart. I'm not one of those who advocates 'reporting' everything. But obviously the owners are a bigger danger than the dog itself so I would recommend you do.

Hope Jake isn't too scarred I know it only takes a quick attack to leave some dogs permanently scarred (mentally more so than physically.)

Hi, i hope he isn't scarred either, i will find out in due course but don't really plan on going back to any off leash park in the future. it just brings home to me the fact that not all dog owners are responsible and i really think it is not fair to my dog to expect him to be able to cop a bashing from an out of control dog by its owners.

they actually ran away, as i looked back 5 minutes later and they were no where to be seen even in the distance. so must of hot stepped themselves and doggy out of park pretty quick.

everyone is talking about this technique of lifting the back legs and i'd really like to see a video perhaps on how it is done. anyone know of where i could view one? had a bit of a search on youtube but it didn't bring anything up about this. didn't google it though maybe i should try that as well.

TOY DOG

Edited May 11, 2011 by toy dog

[jackie_a1]

It's called the wheel barrow method :p

Basically you grab the two HIND/BACK legs of the dogs and you walk backwards with them so they kind of look like wheel barrows. One person grabs one dog and you walk apart (obviously) the theory is the dogs can't turn around to bite you but make no mistake ANY time you are pulling two dogs apart there is ALWAYS a chance you will get bitten. It just looks like a doggie wheelbarrow very basic.

It's just a safer way to pull dogs apart not guaranteed.

[ish]

This is completely OT, but if you get bitten by a dog and have had your regular 10-yearly tetnus shot, do you still need to go to the doctor and get anothet tetnus shot?

No not another tetanus shot, but it is best to go because you will most likely need antibiotics. If you are within a few years of needing a tetanus booster, and have been bitten by a dog, the Dr might suggest having it done then, just in case.

[toy dog]

http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

Before we start, I would like to say that I am always looking for photos of dog bites that can be used to demonstrate to others how dangerous breaking up a fight can be. I have included some photos at the bottom of this page and on other dog bite pages in my web site. If you have a photo - click here to email it:

This past week I had an incident at my kennel that reminds me how important it is for everyone who works with dogs, or owns dogs to know how to break up a dogfight without getting hurt.

I will start with a warning. Unless you have a lot of experience do not try and break up a dog fight by yourself. Never step in the middle of two loving pets and try and grab them by the collar to stop a dog fight. If you try this, the chances of you being badly bitten are extremely high. People don't understand that 2 animals in the middle of a fight are in survival drive. If they see you at all, they don't look at you as their loving owner. When you charge in and grab them they either react out of a fight reflex and bite, or they see you as another aggressor. When they are in fight or flight mode they will bite you. You can take that to the bank.

Here is what happened at my kennel this week. The wife of a friend came to the kennel with her daughter. She told my secretaries that I had said it was OK to go into my whelping rooms to show her little girl our puppies.

I had never told her this. Anyway, that does not matter. When she left, she did not latch one of the kennel gates properly (this was also an employee mistake for not checking the gate).

Later, one of my kennel staff let another bitch outside. The first bitch jumped against her poorly latched kennel gate, and it came open. She ran outside and started a terrible dog fight. I had not told this young kennel person how to break up a dog fight in progress. He ran in and tried to grab both dog collars. He was bitten very badly in the forearm and hand before I could get on scene and break up the dog fight the correct way.

The safest way to break up a dogfight requires 2 people. Each person grabs the back feet of one of the dogs. The dog back feet are then picked up like a wheelbarrow. With the legs up, both dogs are then pulled apart.

Once the dog fight is broken up and the dogs pulled apart it is critical that the people do not release the dogs or the dog fight will begin again. The two people need to start turning in a circle, or slowly swinging the dogs in a circle while they back away from the other dog. This stops the dog from curling and coming back and biting the person holding their legs.

By circling the dog has to sidestep with its front feet or it will fall on its chin. As long as you slowly continue to back and circle, the dog cannot do any damage to you. To insure that the fight will not begin all over again when you release the dogs, one of the dogs needs to be dragged into an enclosure (i.e. a kennel, the garage, another room) before the dog is released. If you do not do this, the dogs will often charge back and start fighting again or if you release the dog to quickly the dog will turn and attack the person who had his feet.

Dog fights are a very dangerous thing to try and break up alone. You should never rush in and try and grab the dogs to pull them apart. They are in high "fight drive" and are not thinking clearly when fighting. If someone grabs them they will bite without even thinking about who or what they are biting. This is how your loving pet can dog bite the living crap out of you in about a second and a half.

In reality it probably doesn't even know it's biting you. I compare it to a bar fight. If a person comes up behind 2 guys fighting and just reaches out and grabs the shoulder of one of the combatants most of the time the fighter is going to turn and throw a punch without even looking at who or what he is hitting. This is because his adrenaline in pumping and he is in "fight drive".

The worst case scenario is that you are alone when a serious fight breaks out. There are a couple things that you must keep in mind:

Keep your cool you have a job to do.

Do not waste time screaming at the dogs. It hardly ever works.

Your goal is still the same; you must break up the fight without getting hurt.

Go get a leash (allow the fight to continue while you do this).

Dogs are almost always locked onto one another. Walk up and loop the leash around the back loin of the dog by either threading the leash through the handle or use the clip. I prefer the thread method.

Now slowly back away and drag the dog to a fence or to an object that you can tie the leash to. By doing this, you effectively create an anchor for one of the dogs.

Then walk around and grab the back legs of the second dog and drag it away from the dog that is tied up. Remember to turn and circle as they release.

Drag the dog into a dog pen or another room before you release the back legs.

Go back and take the dog off the fence and put him or her into a dog kennel.

Sit down and have a stiff drink (or two).

People talk about using cattle prods or shock collars to break up 2 pets that fight. I can tell you that many times this is not going to work. The electric cattle prod or electric collar will only put the dogs into higher fight drive. When they are shocked they will turn and bite the prod, or when they are shocked they will think the other dog is causing the pain and they will fight harder. An electric collar is best used in conditioning training, but not during an actual dogfight.

I had a friend tell me that using a stun gun works. Not to actually shock the dog, but just to hold it in your hand and allow it to snap. The sound of the electrical snap is supposed to cause the dogs to stop fighting. I will muzzle 2 of my dogs and let them go at it to see if this works. I will be surprised if it works on 2 really strong dogs going after each other.

A point I would like to make is that if you see two dogs out there squaring off through body posturing (i.e. one dog with stiff legs and tail straight up in the air putting his head over the shoulders of the other to show dominance) do not run out there screaming "NO NO NO!!!!" Most of the time this is going to trigger the fight. A lot of times dogs will posture and one will give in and back away. They settle their dominance issue without a battle. I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER recommend testing this situation. It's not worth the fight that erupts if you are wrong. But I can tell you of a couple of situations at my kennel where I went outside and 2 males were loose that I would have thought would fight to the death. Obviously they determined that today is not the day to argue. I also know that had I gone out screaming before they settled it themselves there would have been a nasty fight.