klink Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hi all, I have for some time considered the following comments as a way to improve the show experience for us all. Please give your opinions. We all at some stage of our show careers have been aware of the dreaded "face judging syndrome " whether real or imagined and with this in mind on two separate occassions have written to Dogs NSW to offer this suggestion. Show schedules always name the attending judges at an upcoming show.....WHY ? Is it perhaps so we all only enter under judges we follow or know they like our dogs',In my opinion both these comments do reflect the truth for all of us ,myself included.Month after month we see the same dogs', same people being put up by the same judges and of course the usual paybacks are there for us all to see. If the show schedules did not nominate judges attending, we would all have to take who we get on the day, to me ,a much fairer system for all concerned. Now I hear you all saying that the clubs would leak the info out but if the judges and the club only were awarded their group to judge prior to the commencement of the show we all would only know when the judges are introduced on the morning as to what group has beenallocated to who.( they could be drawn from a hat by, perhaps the rep for the day.) I dont' think for a minute that judges would object, well maybe some would ,but I bet the journal results would look a lot different. I am also positive that show entries would beincreased if this was bought in by Dogs'NSW> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 the problem is, there are judges out there who utterly despise some breeders and their lines, and for us a local show is often four hours away and a camping weekend. I wouldn't go if I couldn't ensure at least a fair look from a judge who knows our breed. fifi xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 No way I would like this. There are some judges known to be a bit less gentle that I wouldn't enter babies under and in some breeds that have diffrent type in different countries that would be a deterrent if you were unsure which judge you were getting. PLUS not all judges are trained for all groups. For me this would be a big turn off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Why would I want to pay good money to enter a show and find I've got a judge whose opinion or handling of my dogs I don't respect or who doesn't like what I put into the ring? (they aren't necessarily the same thing by the way). Conversely, if a show's booked a breed specialist - I want to be able to find them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I don't mind mystery General Specials judges, some clubs do that and it seems work well, particularly for fundraiser shows. There are legitimate reasons why you might choose not to enter under a particular judge for breed and group tho'. Fifi has mentioned one. How about this one? I enter a show, travel a couple of hours, OH grooms an Afghan Hound, and we get there to find that the judge is a close enough friend and mentor that we think it would be inappropriate to show to them. I can think of better ways to spend the time and money. The best solution for facey judges is not to give them another entry and to speak up when your committee discusses appointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I enter under judges I have never heard of and do so regularly. One of my first show trips down to Canberra (from Brisbane) was 6 shows - 4 Champ & 2 Open. I didn't know a single one of the judges but flew down anyway in the "hope" of picking up points for my 2 dogs and having a lovely weekend away. I came home with 5 Best of Breeds (3 Champ & 2 Open) and 3 Best in Groups (1 Champ & 2 Open). People could have called it a conspiracy (Why travel SO far?? Must have had it in the bag!!) But my next trip down, I again brought 2 dogs (different ones) and barely managed a single 6 point challenge between them. On my first trip down I'd taken a dog who went on to win Group and Best in Show placements in Australia, NZ and Europe, title in 9 countries, awarded Best Movement by 6 different breed specialists. Hellovadog. I couldn't have told you who the judges were that trip and my face had never graced a doggy magazine. This past weekend I witnessed the most god awful judging technique I think I have ever seen. I would be shocked if this judge had never been bitten as I saw dog after dog give them the "evil eye" as the judge manhandled, tugged, squished, stood right over etc etc. I will never ever enter a show again that has this person as a possible judge for my dogs. EVER. You will find that those consistant winners present their dogs well. Dogs are clean, unstained and groomed. The dogs gait for more than 5 steps in a row and stack in a pleasing shape. The handlers actually do as the judge asks, and can run their dog in a manner that it looks good to the judge. So many exhibitors make it a difficult task to award their dogs anything of note by their own hand. Lovely dogs made look anything but by human intervention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) This past weekend I witnessed the most god awful judging technique I think I have ever seen. I would be shocked if this judge had never been bitten as I saw dog after dog give them the "evil eye" as the judge manhandled, tugged, squished, stood right over etc etc. I will never ever enter a show again that has this person as a possible judge for my dogs. EVER. We had one of these last year. Even tho' the judge ended up awarding our dog and giving it an age class in group - never again. Edit: Wasn't there some talk of amending the rules so that Judge A could not show to Judge B if Judge A had put Judge B up for a Group or BIS/RUBIS in the two years previously? Edited May 6, 2011 by SkySoaringMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Being new, I will enter under any judge - I have no clue who is who, after all. Plus I have a rare breed, so I need to give judges the chance to see it that might not know the breed. However, I will take note of judges that rough handle my dog, and I won't enter under them again - one judge early on was very rough with my baby puppy and it took a few more shows to get her to be happy to have her teeth checked again. I won't show under this judge again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Yep as already mentioned there are people i would never enter under nor travel for . You could be entering under the breeder/co owner/partner & the list goes on.You could end up with siblings entering as well so then is it up to the club to go through entries & pick out those who can/can't enter ?? I think not Judges have rules to follow to & judges are able to knock back appointments due to being to close together or already judging that group.After all you cant do potluck unless you have a variety of judges with multi groups. Judges receive a list of what breeds are entered so they can follow through on breed standards if they have breeds they have never judged before It wouldn't work,would be to much work for those volunteers & Internationals judges need to meet ANKC regs for judging in Australia. Most judges wouldn't accept appointments without knowing what they where doing Entries wouldn't increase at all because no one wastes money on judges who they now wouldn't even consider them nor would you drive hrs,pay for accommodation,maybe a day of work on the off chance you get a judge you would support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I will also avoid SLOW judges!! I like watching the show and accept that they will take as long as they take- but there are a few that I wont show under because I want to cry! I made the mistake of not writing one of these down and entered under them again- It took a fair amount of effort not to hop back in the car and go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 If it was a once off thing (fundraiser etc), I think it sounds like fun. For shows every weekend I don't think it would work. Month after month we see the same dogs', same people being put up by the same judges and of course the usual paybacks are there for us all to see. Some people do have nice dogs and they do win week in, and week out - Regardless of who the judge is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Conversely, if a show's booked a breed specialist - I want to be able to find them! Exactly. We have a show coming up we wouldn't have normally entered but the judge is one we would love to show under as they have had our breed in the past, which is a rare thing. I would have hated to miss the show because we didn't know they were judging. There's a show coming up I won't enter because the judge is rough. No way will I pay good money for someone to be rough to my dogs. The breeder of one of our dogs is a judge for that group, we certainly can't/won't enter under her. Our girl has also been handled by a friend who is a judge, so we won't/can't enter under her either. What a waste it would be to enter under a mystery judge, do all the grooming required, then turn up at some stupid o'clock to find out we can't show anyway because the judge is a friend/breeder/business partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 There is no way I would enter any show unless I knew who the judge was. Just imagine entering 4 dogs at an away 3 day show only to find out the judge is somebody you would never enter under in a pink fit, or what if the judge was an interstate friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 There is no way I would enter any show unless I knew who the judge was. same here .... if it ever happened then I'd say good-bye ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkrai Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I like the idea of Surprise Gen Sp Judge... There would be no way of keeping secrets of who is judging what, word would slip numbers may be up but once they hear numbers will drop, kinda like when they have a change of judge on the day of a show people who have already turned up wont show under them lol but nothing will change everyone will still have their opinions etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 There is no way I would risk a minimum of 470km drive on an unknown judge. It takes a lot of organisation for me to be able to go, I want to know exactly what I am heading up there for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I wouldn't know one judge from the next, I just go for the day out, so not knowing who the judges are wouldn't make any difference to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 When I started this subject it was with the intention of achieving exactly what it has , discussion. It is fairly obvious from these comments that all of us are only concerned with our own success and not my overall goal of the possible improvement to the judging that we encounter every week-end at shows. If you are one of the many at shows who regularly comment re the predictable results at these shows, are you not contributing to this continuance by acceptance of the current arrangements. I have attended many shows where a new exhibitor after possibly two or three outings makes the comment " what a con " etc. and in many cases fade from view never to return. Dog showing generally speaking is a personal and self satisfying sport/ hobby for most and thus the attitude that we all seem to gain. Everthing is alright....until it affects you and then things change. Many of us see some terrible things happen in the show ring re the judging of our dogs and I for one would like to see some changes to this process so that everybody has an equal chance with their dog not the sometimes foregone conclusion that we often see. It is a fact that show entries are not what they used to be and I know there are many reasons for this , but i would wager one of the main reasons is the judging. To again strive for a more transparent system I think the time has come to either be a dog judge or an exhibitor not both. I know all the fores and against this statement but it not only has to be fair BUT it also has to look fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Ill have to disagree and say no thanx.. I have family member who is judge and i cant show under them.. what if i enter a show and they are judging???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 It is fairly obvious from these comments that all of us are only concerned with our own success and not my overall goal of the possible improvement to the judging that we encounter every week-end at shows. Of course people are concerned with their own success. Why wouldn't they be? Its a hobby, not a learning program. What do you see as wrong with current judging methods, that could be improved by people not knowing who the judges are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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