Obedience Trials & Collars

[ish]

From the ANKC website, the rules for collars in obedience trials are as follows:

Collars and Leads:

All dogs must have a slip or fixed collar which fits only the dog's neck and which must remain on the dog

at all times. No spiked collars or collars which give additional head control shall be permitted.

The minimum length of lead will be 750 mm and it will be fitted with a quick release fastener. All dogs

must enter and leave the Ring on a lead. In exercises that require a dog to be off-lead, the lead will be

taken off and handed to the Steward at the Start Peg.

All exercises with the exception of ‘Heel on Lead’ and ‘Stand for Examination’ in the Community

Companion Dog Class must be executed off-lead

I've been cautioned by some judges recently about my choice of collar in the trial ring. It has been suggested it is a 'training aid' because it is snuggly fitted, and cues the dog that it is trialling, which is against the rules. Apparently I can be penalised and it was suggested I have a back up collar on hand at trials, just in case. Several judges have voiced the same opinion.

Has anyone been spoken to or penalised for the type or fit of their dogs collar at trials? Does anyone know if a penalty is enforceable, considering the above rules?

[bedazzledx2]

Need a bit more information...do you have a photo of your collar? I'm guessing its a choke chain?

From the ANKC website, the rules for collars in obedience trials are as follows:

Collars and Leads:

All dogs must have a slip or fixed collar which fits only the dog's neck and which must remain on the dog

at all times. No spiked collars or collars which give additional head control shall be permitted.

The minimum length of lead will be 750 mm and it will be fitted with a quick release fastener. All dogs

must enter and leave the Ring on a lead. In exercises that require a dog to be off-lead, the lead will be

taken off and handed to the Steward at the Start Peg.

All exercises with the exception of ‘Heel on Lead’ and ‘Stand for Examination’ in the Community

Companion Dog Class must be executed off-lead

I've been cautioned by some judges recently about my choice of collar in the trial ring. It has been suggested it is a 'training aid' because it is snuggly fitted, and cues the dog that it is trialling, which is against the rules. Apparently I can be penalised and it was suggested I have a back up collar on hand at trials, just in case. Several judges have voiced the same opinion.

Has anyone been spoken to or penalised for the type or fit of their dogs collar at trials? Does anyone know if a penalty is enforceable, considering the above rules?

[ish]

It's a snap around collar http://www.handcraftcollars.com/snaparound...ningcollar.aspx

You can easily fit a few fingers under it, just like any well fitted collar. We're trialling in Novice.

I questioned if it was the type or collar or the fit that upset the judge on the weekend, he replied the fit and said yes when I asked if a plain flat collar fitted 'tightly' would cause the same issue.

[wuffles]

Would it be the placement of the collar, up high on the dog's neck, rather than the tightness? Lots of people around here use check chains or martingales for trialling but all the ones I have seen have been lower down on the neck, not where you would actually place them for effective corrections.

[ish]

Perhaps wuffles - but I can't find collar placement being mentioned in the rules at all? The snap around collar certainly doesn't give additional head control, which is against the rules.

[wuffles]

If I fit the martingale on my dogs up high and tight they would most likely act differently than if I just fit the martingale loosely (my fault, we are still not quite there with leash manners on a flat collar for everyday walking). Maybe this could be interpreted as additional head control.

ETA: I know a martingale is different to the snap around collar, but for argument's sake...

Edited May 5, 2011 by wuffles

[ish]

I would interpret collars that give additional head control being head collars such as haltis or gentle leaders. The rules aren't very specific which is why I'm finding it hard to believe that I'm at risk of a penalty with a snap around collar.

If I walk my dog on a flat collar on recreational walks and train at club with a check chain, would the check chain be a training aid in a trial seeing as it would cue the dog that it was working?

[FHRP]

ish, have you got a photo of your dog wearing the collar?

[mirawee]

I am interested in seeing a photo of your dog in the collar too please

I have to have flat collars tight on my boy - even then he is good at pulling out of them if I hand him to someone else to hold and move away from him

[JoeK]

I would interpret collars that give additional head control being head collars such as haltis or gentle leaders. The rules aren't very specific which is why I'm finding it hard to believe that I'm at risk of a penalty with a snap around collar.

If I walk my dog on a flat collar on recreational walks and train at club with a check chain, would the check chain be a training aid in a trial seeing as it would cue the dog that it was working?

I tell them to read the rules typical on the judge making up their own rules pffffff!. Is says a slip collar is acceptable if doesnt say which one the choice is free. Head restraining under the FCI rule means head collars like the Haltis so they needing to understand the rules they enforcing.

Joe

[JoeK]

From the ANKC website, the rules for collars in obedience trials are as follows:

Collars and Leads:

All dogs must have a slip or fixed collar which fits only the dog's neck and which must remain on the dog

at all times. No spiked collars or collars which give additional head control shall be permitted.

The minimum length of lead will be 750 mm and it will be fitted with a quick release fastener. All dogs

must enter and leave the Ring on a lead. In exercises that require a dog to be off-lead, the lead will be

taken off and handed to the Steward at the Start Peg.

All exercises with the exception of ‘Heel on Lead’ and ‘Stand for Examination’ in the Community

Companion Dog Class must be executed off-lead

I've been cautioned by some judges recently about my choice of collar in the trial ring. It has been suggested it is a 'training aid' because it is snuggly fitted, and cues the dog that it is trialling, which is against the rules. Apparently I can be penalised and it was suggested I have a back up collar on hand at trials, just in case. Several judges have voiced the same opinion.

Has anyone been spoken to or penalised for the type or fit of their dogs collar at trials? Does anyone know if a penalty is enforceable, considering the above rules?

If the collar is "slip" it means is allowed to slip is not fixed so it has varying in the tightness on the dog and fitting only the dogs neck meaning you dont having the dog collard by the tail or around his belly, collar fitting on the dogs neck is where the collar must be fitting not on his front leg this means. A neck collar is not attaching to his head and the only time is questionable if the collar is pulled up too high at the ears and under his chin to pull his head around, If the collar remaining on the dogs neck providing is not a prong is comlying to the rule.

Joe

[JulesP]

Head restraining is irrelevant as Novice is off lead.

Not sure how I would feel competing against someone in a collar like that. Not super happy to be honest.

Why don't you just use a flat collar?

[ish]

Not sure how I would feel competing against someone in a collar like that. Not super happy to be honest.

Why don't you just use a flat collar?

Why would you feel differently about that collar to a snug fitting collar of any other variety??

I could just use a flat collar - I took her in on a chain for the 2nd trial, but I want to understand why its a problem and where it is against the rules. Its my collar of choice for my dog.

These are the best pics I can get inside

Snap around collar

Blackdog training collar

Rogz martingale

They're all adjusted to sit up high which is where a training collar should be IMO. She doesn't need it as a cue to work - she actually got better marks in the trial where she wore only a check chain which didn't fit her well. Plus its Novice so its all off lead anyway!

[The Spotted Devil]

I think any collar that is fitted so it sits higher up on the neck means it is firmer than a normal flat collar and MAY give an additional cue - which is what the judges aren't happy with. It might be designed so that the dog thinks it will get a correction even though it is off lead. My Dally wears a Black Dog martingale but it sits loosely around the low point of his neck. I would love to have no collar on my dogs during trials.

ish, remember that they are not saying you are cheating but it is all about perception. At novice level some judges will overlook some issues but give fair warning that other judges may not be so kind.

Edited May 5, 2011 by The Spotted Devil

[freundhund]

Hi Ish

I am interested in your issue, as I am currently trialling in CCD after not trialling for a number of years. I am finding a lot of the new judges are judging very differently from years ago, and are having very interesting interpretations of the rules.

I have been watching a lot of judges and there definately seems to be differences in what judges seem to want. As far as I am concerned I would have considered that the collar that you wish to use would be quite acceptable.

However, if I was you I would take up the issue with your state Obedience Committee and ask for a ruling on whether your collar is acceptable or not. If the collar is acceptable ask them to provide you with a letter that you can show to judges in the future.

Cheers

FH

[ish]

I think any collar that is fitted so it sits higher up on the neck means it is firmer than a normal flat collar and MAY give an additional cue - which is what the judges aren't happy with. It might be designed so that the dog thinks it will get a correction even though it is off lead.

But I've shown in my photos, if she was not wearing a snap around collar, she would be wearing another training collar which is adjusted to fit snuggly - as they should be, high up on the neck.

The rules don't state a loose fitting or low fitting collar. My question is about it being against the rules and if penalties are enforced - I can't see positioning of the collar mentioned in the rules. Is there further information somewhere regarding this?

[ish]

However, if I was you I would take up the issue with your state Obedience Committee and ask for a ruling on whether your collar is acceptable or not. If the collar is acceptable ask them to provide you with a letter that you can show to judges in the future.

That is a very good idea, thankyou FH - they might too be able to further clarify why/where in the rules this collar isn't acceptable if that is their thoughts

[The Spotted Devil]

I think any collar that is fitted so it sits higher up on the neck means it is firmer than a normal flat collar and MAY give an additional cue - which is what the judges aren't happy with. It might be designed so that the dog thinks it will get a correction even though it is off lead.

But I've shown in my photos, if she was not wearing a snap around collar, she would be wearing another training collar which is adjusted to fit snuggly - as they should be, high up on the neck.

The rules don't state a loose fitting or low fitting collar. My question is about it being against the rules and if penalties are enforced - I can't see positioning of the collar mentioned in the rules. Is there further information somewhere regarding this?

Probably the bolded bit is able to interpreted as position and fit of the collar - they can't cover every possibility/type of collar. But you might be better off talking to a couple of judges with rule book in hand.

No spiked collars or collars which give additional head control shall be permitted.

[JulesP]

I think any collar that is fitted so it sits higher up on the neck means it is firmer than a normal flat collar and MAY give an additional cue - which is what the judges aren't happy with. It might be designed so that the dog thinks it will get a correction even though it is off lead. My Dally wears a Black Dog martingale but it sits loosely around the low point of his neck. I would love to have no collar on my dogs during trials.

ish, remember that they are not saying you are cheating but it is all about perception. At novice level some judges will overlook some issues but give fair warning that other judges may not be so kind.

The above is what I think too.

I also don't think any slip collar should be tight on the dogs neck. IMO when they are tight they are in play. In a trial ring they should be in a neutral position. Ie a chain collar should be loose enough that the 2 end round bits should be together.

Not having a go either, just trying to explain.

[Diva]

n the neck.

The rules don't state a loose fitting or low fitting collar. My question is about it being against the rules and if penalties are enforced

I don't know if it is against the rules, but if a judge decides it is they simply won't allow you to compete with it in their ring.

I can't remember what the grievance procedures are but they are unlikely to help in a timely enough manner to allow you to compete that day, so the suggestion to carry a back up collar is a good one. At least until you can get a ruling on it from your state committee.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Diva