Dogs Operated On, Then Killed

[Swizzlestick]

I get sad too. Each one that comes in gets a can of yummy cat food before they leave for the bridge, and a quiet talk and cuddles. This might sound corny, but I say a little thankyou to them too, for their donation.

I think the reason there aren't more blood banks is the huge cost to run it. As well as the APVMA fees etc. Canine Blood Products are registered just like any other veterinary drug these days, and to say this is time consuming and expensive is an understatement.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Sir WJ

[john.davey.1960]

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

[Robbi]

I get sad too. Each one that comes in gets a can of yummy cat food before they leave for the bridge, and a quiet talk and cuddles. This might sound corny, but I say a little thankyou to them too, for their donation.

I think the reason there aren't more blood banks is the huge cost to run it. As well as the APVMA fees etc. Canine Blood Products are registered just like any other veterinary drug these days, and to say this is time consuming and expensive is an understatement.

Thank you for the compassion and sympathy you show to these dogs, a small kindness that they deserve but often dont get. I think it is a far more fitting end to a noble hound than being shot and dumped in the bush, at least it is not completely pointless.

[Swizzlestick]

I get sad too. Each one that comes in gets a can of yummy cat food before they leave for the bridge, and a quiet talk and cuddles. This might sound corny, but I say a little thankyou to them too, for their donation.

I think the reason there aren't more blood banks is the huge cost to run it. As well as the APVMA fees etc. Canine Blood Products are registered just like any other veterinary drug these days, and to say this is time consuming and expensive is an understatement.

Thank you for the compassion and sympathy you show to these dogs, a small kindness that they deserve but often dont get. I think it is a far more fitting end to a noble hound than being shot and dumped in the bush, at least it is not completely pointless.

Thanks for you kind words Robbi.

It's hard enought to end any dogs life, but it used to be so much harder having to euthanase a long term blood donor who wasn't suitable for GAP. I'd spend every day with them for a 2-3 years, then have to euthanase them. Sad thing was, they trusted me to do anything to them. Then one day, they'd come in for a donation, and not leave again. I'd cry for days after having to euth one of them.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

Can you send me your address, I'm going to get all the dogs out of the pound each week and bring them to you.

As for the no kill movement in Australia, from what I've seen when the no kill shelters are full the other organisations kill the dogs that they turn away. So kill happens but someone gets all warm and fuzzy because someone can say they are no kill.

[WreckitWhippet]

" No kill " is perhaps the biggest con or lie going.

[poodlefan]

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

Please cough up the research that supports your claim of 500,000 homes looking for pets - God knows there's plenty of rescuers who'd be pleased to find them.

What animal welfare organisation are you involved with?

Edited May 9, 2011 by poodlefan

[~Anne~]

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

Whilst I agree we do not have an oversupply, I'd be very interested to hear where you got your stats. Whose salaries do the dead dog's pay?

[john.davey.1960]

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

Please cough up the research that supports your claim of 500,000 homes looking for pets - God knows there's plenty of rescuers who'd be pleased to find them.

What animal welfare organisation are you involved with?

http://www.operationtoby.com.au/NO-KILL_australiapaper.pdf

[Are You Serious Jo]

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

Please cough up the research that supports your claim of 500,000 homes looking for pets - God knows there's plenty of rescuers who'd be pleased to find them.

What animal welfare organisation are you involved with?

http://www.operationtoby.com.au/NO-KILL_australiapaper.pdf

I found the bit you are referring to, but that PDF doesn't have any references. It says "recent studies" (can't copy the paragraph I want and can't be arsed to write it all out), but fails to reference those so called studies. So basically what you are claiming has no back up if you are relying solely on that document.

I could publish a report on the net and say whatever I like, but doesn't make it true. This is what happens when people just read things without having any facts to back them up.

Try again dude, see if you can find some references to actual studies to back up what you claim.

[Souff]

Good animal people never become desensitised. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

Totally agree.

I would alter it a little to this though and say if we are no longer affected by the death of any animal, then we should no longer be around animals.

Anne,

I am sorry but there just has to be some exclusions. Like snakes.

Souff hates snakes and if a few more died there would be no tears shed here.

There were also a couple of very evil roosters in little Souff's childhood.

They made VERY good soup ;) and I probably helped to pluck 'em.

No tears shed for them.

Souff

[Souff]

cmkelpie, thanks for the update.

Souff will definitely not be dropping the private health insurance now that I know that.

No offence, but I, like others, thought that the first cut made into living flesh was on animals, not on us patients.

Souff

After 8yrs of studying to become a doctor I can assure you that nothing your could say would offend me. That you talk about yourself in the 3rd person is rather intriguing however. If junior doctors not carving up a pig every now and again is the only reason you are keeping your private health insurance then so be it. At least it will cut the waiting time for others requiring surgery.

Good, I am glad you don't take offence. Some might. Third person? Souff cant count - there could be a few others lurking too ;)

The annual bill for private health insurance is enough to make anyone ill, and means that to pay it we cant play the pokies or go to the races, or smoke, or drink (much), nor do dope and stuff, nor buy big screen plasma tvs or Wiis or x-boxes .... but somehow we survive. But gee, if we are helping keeping those waiting lists shorter that must be good.

Can't say we pay for it with that aspect uppermost in mind though.

Souff

again

[raz]

The topic of desensitising vet students came up in the last thread on this but I dont actually understand the issue. For me, I'd much rather have a vet desensitised by adequate hands on training at uni than one who becomes desensitised killing dogs in a clinic through lack of training. Is the issue the assumption that working on live animals in uni is going to spit out a grad who just doesnt care about the animals? I think that if that's the theory, it's actually really insulting to the vet grads.

[poodlefan]

http://www.operationtoby.com.au/NO-KILL_australiapaper.pdf

Interesting paper. I'll take issue with one key assertion. The ACT is NOT a no kill territory. The RSPCA may have a low kill rate but it does not take on all dogs surrendered, nor does it deal with dogs impounded as roaming or for behavioural reasons. Those go to DAS and they do get PTS.

I'll agree with the point that hundreds of thousands of Australian homes take on new pets every year. However I don't agree that all of them are suitable homes for rescue dogs and nor will I agree that most rescue dogs are suitable for any home. Perhaps if more work was put into a dog before it was rehomed many problems could be averted but not all (such as resource guarding) are curable. As a dog trainer I see the heartbreak that impulsive decisionss made by novice dogs owners at pounds can lead to. The fact that these owners are motivated by thoughts of saving a dog just makes their problems even sadder.

Dogs don't come in a generic "one size fits all" package. Young working breed dogs are a case in point. The kinds of homes that suit them are limited. Whilst I agree that more effort needs to go into making rescue dogs both available and suitable for rehoming, I'd love to see puppy breeding and placement made better for buyers.

No point in madly bailing out the rescue pond if you can't stop the influx of dogs chosen impulsively, not socialised, not trained and past the point where you can "make them over". Getting pups out of pet shops would be a good start.

In the meantime and back on subject. The floodgates of rescue dogs unable to be rehomed will not close overnight. While dogs continue to die, personally I think they should be viewed as more than landfill. They are a resource that used ethically can provide valuable learning experiences for student vets.

[frenzied1]

I get sad too. Each one that comes in gets a can of yummy cat food before they leave for the bridge, and a quiet talk and cuddles. This might sound corny, but I say a little thankyou to them too, for their donation.

I think the reason there aren't more blood banks is the huge cost to run it. As well as the APVMA fees etc. Canine Blood Products are registered just like any other veterinary drug these days, and to say this is time consuming and expensive is an understatement.

I know that dogs from the Riverina pounds have been used at times for blood and then returned back to the pound.

[WoofnHoof]

The topic of desensitising vet students came up in the last thread on this but I dont actually understand the issue. For me, I'd much rather have a vet desensitised by adequate hands on training at uni than one who becomes desensitised killing dogs in a clinic through lack of training. Is the issue the assumption that working on live animals in uni is going to spit out a grad who just doesnt care about the animals? I think that if that's the theory, it's actually really insulting to the vet grads.

This was the original study I heard about which sparked my interest in the subject, the student comments were extremely interesting as were the authors comments when I spoke to her. There is no assumption or generalisation here about grads that don't care, it's about whether the desensitisation that occurs both as a result of the non recoveries as well as the way in which the concept is introduced to students could impact on their entire working life philosophy. There is a perception and an attitude that is hard to convey on a forum but having experienced it I do think it's worth further investigation.

It does annoy me when people think that because I think the idea could have merit and warrants further study that somehow that means that I think all vet students trained this way are non feeling bastards! No doubt it also annoys vets who have been trained using other means when people assume that they are compete numpties and spend their first few years fumbling around killing pets!

[raz]

No doubt it also annoys vets who have been trained using other means when people assume that they are compete numpties and spend their first few years fumbling around killing pets!

I get your point (and no I didnt think you thought vets were non feeling bastards) and thanks for clarifying. Will have a squizz at your linky

[~Anne~]

Good animal people never become desensitised. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

Totally agree.

I would alter it a little to this though and say if we are no longer affected by the death of any animal, then we should no longer be around animals.

Anne,

I am sorry but there just has to be some exclusions. Like snakes.

Souff hates snakes and if a few more died there would be no tears shed here.

There were also a couple of very evil roosters in little Souff's childhood.

They made VERY good soup ;) and I probably helped to pluck 'em.

No tears shed for them.

Souff

I was more inferring an animal that is not neccessarily in your care though. Evil roosters? Perhaps you grew up near me... Big Red was a devil and had evil sized claws. We all cheered when he was knocked off.

[WoofnHoof]

No doubt it also annoys vets who have been trained using other means when people assume that they are compete numpties and spend their first few years fumbling around killing pets!

I get your point (and no I didnt think you thought vets were non feeling bastards) and thanks for clarifying. Will have a squizz at your linky

No worries, here's another one which touches on the same subject Link they spoke at a seminar back in Feb unfortunately I missed it as I had to work.

[raz]

My stupid computa hates those files and it takes me forever to scroll through the things but can you give me a rundown, Woof - looks like that study is only on the use of cadavers, not live animals?