Dogs Operated On, Then Killed

[raz]

[Organ donation does not really gel in with either of these arguments .

Yes it does - it most certainly does. An organ donor is alive when the organs are donated -and I totally agree with it the same as I agree with vet students being allowed to operate on a live animal that is going to die anyway. Good on them

[PAX]

I would like to put it in another POV.

I love my dogs...maybe more than my kids. If I was offered the choice of a new grad student performing surgery (no matter how basic) on my dog for free (which would never happen), but under the close watch of my prefered vet, or my experienced well respected vet that charged a lot, what would I choose? There is no choice., I will never pick the new Grad. for my dogs.

I am an organ donor.

Edited May 8, 2011 by PAX

[Souff]

cmkelpie, thanks for the update.

Souff will definitely not be dropping the private health insurance now that I know that.

No offence, but I, like others, thought that the first cut made into living flesh was on animals, not on us patients.

And Raz is right about the organ donors.

Funny old world of double standards sometimes eh?

Cant see Mr Wirth refusing an organ donation if he needed it.

Souff

[OSoSwift]

You are never desensitised to the loss of an animal. You do learn to cope a little more as time goes on as when an owner is falling apart the last thing they need is a vet or nurse falling apart with them.

Having said that I have shed more than a few tears with people as I have be privilidge to help them when their beloved pet has gone on it's final journey.

I have lost 5 of my animals in the last 3 and a half years, all of them at the end of their lives. I still cry and I still am very upset but I have young children I cannot get depressed and cry for days and not function, I also have other pets and a farm to run.

I lost 3 calves this year, one born dead, one had to be pulled and was dead and the other was hiplocked and still alive but the cow was down in the paddock. I did everything I could to get that calf out alive, everything, I even pulled all the muscles in my hands and feet trying to help the cow. I did eventually manage to help her but I lost the calf, even after cardiac massage and mouth to nose. I didn't cry or scream but I was extremely upset for quite a few days. Not everyone carry's their emotions on their sleeve. Some people that have, especially when younger, learn over time to carry them a little closer to their heart.

I do not believe that a vet or anyone that works at a vet hospital EVER gets desensitised to animals dying or being euthanased. They just change the way they resond to the emotion. 15 years never cured me of being extremely saddened by euthing pound dogs or thinking what an absolute bloody waste of a good dog, or dissapointed in the humans that where the ones who put them there. However euthanasia to me is preferable to them being abused starved etc. If these dogs can be taken to a uni, loved and cuddled then GA for a non-recovery surgery then I hate the fact they are euthed at all, but I would prefer they are used to help train our vets.

[Souff]

Good animal people never become desensitised. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

[OSoSwift]

agreed

[Are You Serious Jo]

You've explained it really well OSS.

[kelpiekaye]

Good animal people never become desensitised. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

Well said

[frenzied1]

Good animal people never become desensitised. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

That is what I always say about my work in rescue. I try and find rescue for dogs from DAS every week. Sometimes we can save them all sometimes we cannot. I get upset every week as I have met the dogs etc. I have always said if I ever get to a point when I am not affected by this then I will give up rescue.

[oakway]

Good animal people never become desensitized. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

Excellent post souff.

We as breeders, showers, animal carers and lovers NEVER become desensitized,

but, I do believe there are some of us that face reality a lot better than others.

[Bartok]

[Organ donation does not really gel in with either of these arguments .

Yes it does - it most certainly does. An organ donor is alive when the organs are donated -and I totally agree with it the same as I agree with vet students being allowed to operate on a live animal that is going to die anyway. Good on them

The person donating the organ is brain dead and once life support is stopped the rest of their body will shutdown

We dont just take body parts from humans and then let them die

So organ donation is different

These dogs in question are animals that werent brain dead or ill, but were pts once they had served their purpose

So regardless of if you agree with non recovery animals or not, it is different to human organ donation

[Swizzlestick]

Question for those against the practice.

Do you object to a dog being used as a blood donor before being euthanased?

[~Anne~]

Good animal people never become desensitised. We can toughen up, but if we get to a point where we are no longer affected by the death of an animal that has been in our care, then we should no longer be around animals.

Souff

Totally agree.

I would alter it a little to this though and say if we are no longer affected by the death of any animal, then we should no longer be around animals.

[Silvawilow]

This article is from SMH...I was so upset to read this and wish we could all could do something to stop this terrible waste.

What do you think???

I don't have a problem with Students using unwanted animals to improve their skills as Vets for when they actually enter the real world and operate on peoples furkids so long as it's done with compassion.

IMO those who have an issue with it can volunteer their pets as guniea pigs for Students, I prefer someone who's had practical experience

[cmkelpie]

cmkelpie, thanks for the update.

Souff will definitely not be dropping the private health insurance now that I know that.

No offence, but I, like others, thought that the first cut made into living flesh was on animals, not on us patients.

Souff

After 8yrs of studying to become a doctor I can assure you that nothing your could say would offend me. That you talk about yourself in the 3rd person is rather intriguing however. If junior doctors not carving up a pig every now and again is the only reason you are keeping your private health insurance then so be it. At least it will cut the waiting time for others requiring surgery.

Edited May 9, 2011 by cmkelpie

[Staranais]

Kind of off topic, but I'm the opposite to most posters here - I'd probably rather have my dog operated on by one of my classmates under the supervision of one of our surgeons, than by a random vet out in practice. Simply because there is a wide range of surgical skill and knowledge in vets out in practice, whereas I know first hand that all of our surgeons and anaesthetists are really, really good at what they do.

Although luckily, they aren't the only two choices available.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Staranais

[Bartok]

Question for those against the practice.

Do you object to a dog being used as a blood donor before being euthanased?

I am not aware of how it is done in Australia, but I have heard horror stories

that may not be true. So I am happy if someone would fill me in on the practice here

I just heard that say with the sad unlimited amount of greyhounds they drain the blood until the

dog collapses and then dies (may not be true

In the UK they have the dog blood bank and I would be more then happy to have my dogs donate several times a year

My Labrador has already been used in an emergency for blood transfusion

this is a bit on UK blood bank

http://petbloodbankuk.org/petowners/faqs.htm

[Staranais]

Here we use blood from live donor dogs - either a direct transfusion from a donor that is bought into the clinic, or as blood product from the canine blood bank (the owner of the blood bank keeps several retired greyhounds and bleeds them regularly, then sells the typed, separated, & tested blood products to vets).

I don't know much about the greyhound donation that Sir WJ describes, as we don't do it here. I guess if the dog doesn't suffer, and it's going to be PTS anyway, I have no problem with it. Although it's still sad.

[Swizzlestick]

I worked in the Canine Blood Bank for 5 years. The greyhounds used donate once a month, and retire through GAP if they are suitable.

Most private practices bleed greys that come in for euthanasia, so they have blood on hand when a dog needs it. The clinic I work in now does. Each greyhound is sedated before the procedure, one unit of whole blood is collected, then the dog is euthanased. In the whole time I've been a vet nurse, I've never seen a dog bled to the point of collapse (as mentioned in a previous post). Just one unit (450mls) is collected, then the dog is either euthanased or goes home with his owner.

Hope that explains it a bit more. Feel free to ask more questions if you like.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Sir WJ

[Bartok]

I don't know much about the greyhound donation that Sir WJ describes, as we don't do it here. I guess if the dog doesn't suffer, and it's going to be PTS anyway, I have no problem with it. Although it's still sad.

I worked in the Canine Blood Bank for 5 years. The greyhounds used donate once a month, and retire through GAP if they are suitable.

Most private practices bleed greys that come in for euthanasia, so they have blood on hand when a dog needs it. The clinic I work in now does. Each greyhound is sedated before the procedure, one unit of whole blood is collected, then the dog is euthanased. In the whole time I've been a vet nurse, I've never seen a dog bled to the point of collapse (as mentioned in a previous post). Just one unit (450mls) is collected, then the dog is either euthanased or goes home with his owner.

Hope that explains it a bit more. Feel free to ask more questions if you like.

As I said, it was just something I heard so I am glad someone could fill me in

I also read that the only dog blood bank in Australia is in Melb?

I wonder why if so dont other states also have a similar set up

I get sad thinking about Greyhounds. Poor souls