poodlefan Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I agree. Any bereavement is tragic. Thanks Poodlefan I am having a bad time and am more sensitive than usual maybe it is with Mother's day coming up. ;) Believe me when I say I know it's a hard time for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgiew Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 When i was 10 years old my dog had puppies,<My parents would not get her fixed.>One pup went to a neighbour,i saw him every day on my way to school.After a party at there house MY little pup was missing.Later i heard that he was taken by some vet students to be used for experiments,At the time i did not want to believe it.Well there was a warning this would be upsetting.A few weeks later his mother, My dog was stolen from our back yard. Vet students can learn the same way as medical students do.The only people to blame are the ones that make the policies that allow anyone to buy sell and breed dogs We need animals not to be sold in pet shops, a license to own or sell an animal; mandatory education test before you can own a pet. Sorry about the loss of your dogs, but I can assure you vet students don't go prowling the streets like young Frankenstiens looking for dogs to experiment upon. I'd be checking with your parents about where the dogs went, or maybe they were stolen, but someone's fed you porky pies about where they went. fifi Thankyou ,Maybe not these days ;but back in the 1950's they were doing nasty stuff to animals in the name of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I agree. Any bereavement is tragic. Thanks Poodlefan I am having a bad time and am more sensitive than usual maybe it is with Mother's day coming up. ;) Believe me when I say I know it's a hard time for a lot of people. hugs for everyone for mothers day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 budgieW- perhaps ask you parents about this story- ask them to explain it now you are adult ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 sparky and PF, I understand they have ethics committees, but I remain sceptical. It is a healthy scepticism I believe. I can only comment on UQ and how they handle dead animals (mainly sourced from the abbatoir, we're not up to doing lots with live animals yet) and I promise that ethics is a big big thing and all students are made aware of it. I've just finished a subject where we had to dissect goats and reproductive tracts of cows etc and some students were taking photos of themselves with the bits and posting them on facebook. They were told to remove them due to ethical requirements and if they did not they would fail the course. So, as far as I'm concerned UQ takes the ethics side very seriously. In our cadaver labs at uni being caught with any device that can take an image (phone, camera ect) will see you out of the unit as will disrespectful conduct and jokes. The seriousness of the situation is impressed on us each time we enter the lab and we are reminded how grateful we should be to have this resource. I imagine someone with pictures on thier face book would be likely expelled from uni. I can't believe the idealistic views of some people who object to this - bad things happen - these dogs are going to die anyway, there is a silver lining in that the education of vets can benefit from these dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The vet I work for was so endeared and indebted to the greyhounds they used as cadavers, that as soon as she began her practice, she began rescuing & owning rescue greyhounds. When we had cadaver dogs in my vet nursing courses, we were respectful and told off anyone who wasn't. I'm not comfortable with the live patients who are then PTS, but I also know what a difference they have made to students training and understanding. fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgiew Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 budgieW- perhaps ask you parents about this story- ask them to explain it now you are adult ;) My parents are deceased. There was a report made to police by the pups owners as there had been information from guests at the party about who took the dog and the intentions behind it. Thankfully the laws on animal welfare have progressed somewhat but we still have far to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzied1 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) budgieW- perhaps ask you parents about this story- ask them to explain it now you are adult ;) I only found out as an adult our family Lab that nearly bit my face off was put to sleep, Mum told me at the time she had gone to live on a farm! Edited to add I have just read it was the 19560's that is a terrible story budgiew Edited May 5, 2011 by frenzied1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huga Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 sparky and PF, I understand they have ethics committees, but I remain sceptical. It is a healthy scepticism I believe. I can only comment on UQ and how they handle dead animals (mainly sourced from the abbatoir, we're not up to doing lots with live animals yet) and I promise that ethics is a big big thing and all students are made aware of it. I've just finished a subject where we had to dissect goats and reproductive tracts of cows etc and some students were taking photos of themselves with the bits and posting them on facebook. They were told to remove them due to ethical requirements and if they did not they would fail the course. So, as far as I'm concerned UQ takes the ethics side very seriously. I completely agree with Sparky. I can only speak for the office I worked at, but my god, it was strict. So strict that I was often shocked that some projects were not allowed to be undertaken. For those that don't realise, every project involving animals (from observation in the wild, through to the most invasive stuff - cancer treatments etc), has to be approved by the relevant committee before the project can start. Each committee is made up of a variety of people - from lay people right through to researchers. A project getting approved the first time in front of the committee was rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. Including (or perhaps it should read 'especially') vet students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students. Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS? Same experience and outcome for the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students. Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS? Same experience and outcome for the dog? What if the lesson covered anaesthesia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students. Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS? Same experience and outcome for the dog? yes it is and perhaps I haven't made myself clear over the many posts on this thread. This really comes down to the fact that I don't agree with euthanasia at all. I hate it. Unless a dog is dying or in serious pain then I don't think it should be done. Again, I say, I don't know what WOULD be done with them if euthanasia was out of the question, but I just don't want it. I cringe at all of this. It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. It is the same experience and outcome for the dog. I think the thing I hate about it is the actual outcome, not what happens to get there. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;) Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students. Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS? Same experience and outcome for the dog? yes it is and perhaps I haven't made myself clear over the many posts on this thread. This really comes down to the fact that I don't agree with euthanasia at all. I hate it. Unless a dog is dying or in serious pain then I don't think it should be done. Again, I say, I don't know what WOULD be done with them if euthanasia was out of the question, but I just don't want it. I cringe at all of this. It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. It is the same experience and outcome for the dog. I think the thing I hate about it is the actual outcome, not what happens to get there. Does that make sense? Vet students don't like it either! We don't like seeing animals put to sleep any more than anyone else on this forum. The bodies that are donated aren't sick animals, the majority of the time we are learning on healthy dogs who have been put to sleep because there aren't enough homes for them. So they are euthanised just the same as the live dogs who have been operated on and PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. Why? Because I don't like it. I think it is a waste of life. Why does it matter why I don't like it? I just don't. I think dogs deserve a million chances instead of being put down. I think it is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelaa17 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative. I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students. Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS? Same experience and outcome for the dog? yes it is and perhaps I haven't made myself clear over the many posts on this thread. This really comes down to the fact that I don't agree with euthanasia at all. I hate it. Unless a dog is dying or in serious pain then I don't think it should be done. Again, I say, I don't know what WOULD be done with them if euthanasia was out of the question, but I just don't want it. I cringe at all of this. It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. It is the same experience and outcome for the dog. I think the thing I hate about it is the actual outcome, not what happens to get there. Does that make sense? Vet students don't like it either! We don't like seeing animals put to sleep any more than anyone else on this forum. The bodies that are donated aren't sick animals, the majority of the time we are learning on healthy dogs who have been put to sleep because there aren't enough homes for them. So they are euthanised just the same as the live dogs who have been operated on and PTS. I never said they liked it. TBH I think it would harder for them than most. This is getting redundant. They are getting euthanised!!! THAT is what I don't like. For goodness sake. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia. Why? Because I don't like it. I think it is a waste of life. Why does it matter why I don't like it? I just don't. I think dogs deserve a million chances instead of being put down. I think it is pointless. And most of us feel similar, however the rest of us are just a bit more practical about the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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