Dogs Operated On, Then Killed

[PeiPei]

This article is from SMH...I was so upset to read this and wish we could all could do something to stop this terrible waste.

What do you think???

MELBOURNE University is using healthy dogs - some of them pregnant - for student vet operations, then killing the animals.

The dogs are anaesthetised before students carry out surgical procedures, then put down before they are likely to regain consciousness.

A student who did not want to be named said she had been given a bitch carrying seven unborn pups for surgery practice.

She said other students had been given two-month-old pups.

The university and its practices on dogs were dubbed "inhumane" by RSPCA Australia president Hugh Wirth .

Dr Wirth yesterday urged an end to the practice at the Faculty of Veterinary Science on the Werribee campus.

Every year, dozens of dogs are taken out of the faculty's special "dog colony" - a row of cages - for student operations.

Former student Lisa Elsner said: "Most dogs were absolutely petrified - so scared that the students couldn't walk them on a lead through the door of the hospital.

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"Some would lie close to the ground shaking all over, so in the end many had to be carried in."

Dr Elsner, now a qualified vet, said she refused to operate on animals that were to be put down.

Several other students claimed laboratories were often under-supervised -- leaving baffled trainees to leaf through text books as they operated.

Dean of Veterinary Science Prof Ken Hinchcliff confirmed the surgery practice, but said it was common.

"We use both dead and live animals in the instruction of veterinary students," he said.

"Use of live animals is a small but vital part of our surgery teaching program before clinical training.

"Dogs used in surgical teaching are anaesthetised before any surgical procedures are performed and are euthanised before awakening.

"All animals are treated with the utmost care and compassion. All procedures, sourcing, and housing of animals ultimately used for teaching is with the approval of the Animal Ethics Committee of the University of Melbourne."

Prof Hinchcliff refused to reveal where the dogs came from, saying only they were "donated".

An RSPCA spokesman said the society believed the university advertised for unwanted pets and former farm and breeding dogs.

Greyhound Victoria admitted it provided dogs to the university.

Dr Wirth said the use of the dogs was a waste of life.

"We don't support any operations on live dogs by students," he said.

"And we don't think that because a vet student has desexed one or two (dogs or cats) during their studies that it makes them a better vet."

[Baileys mum]

How are vet students going to learn if they can't practice on living animals?

I know it seems cruel & a waste & it is very very sad ...but I would guess that some of these animals would have been donated from animal shelters & they would of probably been PTS anyway...so atleast they have died for a good cause.

I'm sure that the students treat the dogs with respect...& I like to think that they are learning on a live dog, as these students will eventually be qualified vets, & might just have to operate on my own pet one day, so I would like to think they have had the proper training & experience of learning on a live animal & know what they are doing when it comes to operating on my own dog.

I think there was a thread about this last year, & I'm pretty sure one poster said that not all dogs are PTS & from time to time you will get students that will actually adopt a dog.

[becks]

What about going out to vet practises to watch these surgeries being done and then starting to do the surgeries under supervision?

We don't kill off people just so surgeons can learn how to operate

[lucknow]

Vets have to learn and sadly there is a large supply of unwanted animals that are going to be euthanased anyway. We can euthanase them, or we can anaesthetise them, allow training veterinarians to get some valuable hands on experience and then euthanase them. The animals dont suffer any pain from it so while I find it distasteful I dont have a problem with it.

A very large vet I worked for in the past used Greyhounds being euthanased for the same purpose, we also used them as blood donors. Not nice but a fact of life.

As for the fact that the animals were terrified - that isn't the fault of the university. They dont breed them for the purpose of experimenting on them, these are poundies whose time is up.

[Sandra777]

If a dog which is terrified and refuses to walk on a lead turns up at an SPCA shelter 9 times out of 10 it's put down because it's ''unadoptable'' so Mr Worthless doesn't have any moral high ground there.

Equating human life (we don't operate on people then kill them) with a dog's life is AR thinking, dogs aren't little people!

So long as the animal doesn't suffer before or during the operations I see nothing wrong with using dogs (and probably cats) which were destined to be put down anyway. Sad fact of life is there aren't enough homes for all the dogs and cats churned out by careless and stupid people.

[barkon]

If a dog which is terrified and refuses to walk on a lead turns up at an SPCA shelter 9 times out of 10 it's put down because it's ''unadoptable'' so Mr Worthless doesn't have any moral high ground there.

Equating human life (we don't operate on people then kill them) with a dog's life is AR thinking, dogs aren't little people!

So long as the animal doesn't suffer before or during the operations I see nothing wrong with using dogs (and probably cats) which were destined to be put down anyway. Sad fact of life is there aren't enough homes for all the dogs and cats churned out by careless and stupid people.

Exactly

[redangel]

Hugh Wirth is being a wee bit hypocritical her perhaps? Most likely as a vet student he honed his skills in a similar manner? He works at an organisation that considers its decisions and policies all equate to that of all the general public's view (which I believe to be a inaccurate assumption)and personally should you take on board some of the examples of alleged mismanagement , well there are probably more pressing issues.

As the animals are treated humanly, are humanly euthanized before waking and in some ways contributed to develop future vets who use their skills to further the lives of our loved companions Id hardly call it waste. What they do & learn is hardly as trivial as a rat dissection in high school. Such animals are not pre chosen for this proceedure as they arrive at the shelter.

Personally you need to realise that not everything can be learned in books. Next time you go to get your pet desexed, and say you can choose (hypothetically) between a grad that has learned from a book or has completed several speys in this manner....consider this.

Furthermore your surgeon in the public system tells you that he is happy to do your procedure but acknowledges that outside of texts this will be his first surgery. Nervous much?

Oh and yes some animals are allowed to wake up from the procedure and are often adopted by students/their family.

OP you need to consider the many LIVE animals who live a long miserable existance being owned by people who care little for their welfare of quality of life. Puppy Farms might be a good start......these poor animals live a hellish life & death would be an escape to some of the conditions they exist in. Now thats worth shedding a tear over.

Edited May 4, 2011 by redangel

[sas]

Although it doesn't sit well with our emotions our Vets need to be trained...

[pixie_meg]

Honestly, its far better to teach students with these animals, and then have them put to sleep than to just have them put to sleep as undoubtedly would have been the plan anyway. Why waste the bodies, they were going to be killed anyway, and the animal will have not suffered any more.

[KatrinaM]

With the amount of animals that are killed every year in shelters and pounds I would have thought there would be no end to the dogs and cats available for vet students. It seems that its alright to kill them and throw them in the dump because they are unable to be placed in new homes but not OK for them to be sedated, contribute to young vets learning and then euthed. To me neither are different to the next in regard to the animal suffering, the only differance being one wastes a valuable learning opportunity. I wonder if the former student Lisa realised that these dogs may have just been there because their fearful temperament made them impossible to rehome anyway.

[huga]

Oh this old chesnut again.

I don't have a problem with it and I used to work in an Animal Ethics Office.

[cavvysavvy]

So so Sad!!!!!

[spanky]

I don't understand why it upsets people.

The dogs are scheduled to be put to sleep at the pound and instead of getting a needle and thrown in a bin, these dogs get attention from the students and something positive comes from their death.

If you want to get angry / upset direct it at the byb, the puppy farms, the owners that ditch their dogs because they can't be bothered anymore and don't have the guts to take the dog to the vet for pts. Lobby your councils to enforce existing laws, encourage family and friends to desex and rescue or buy from ethical registered breeders.

[RallyValley]

What about going out to vet practises to watch these surgeries being done and then starting to do the surgeries under supervision?

We don't kill off people just so surgeons can learn how to operate

No we don't but ever wondered where bodies donated to science go

I have no problem with it, they have to learn somehow and I am sure dogs are treated humanely and respectfully.

[Bjelkier]

They have to learn somehow.

I would much rather a dog destined to be PTS go this way, its not in pain and the students learn a valuable lesson.

[poodlefan]

Here we go again...

I think just killing them is far better. Seriously, allowing veterinary students to practice on living animals scheduled for euthanasia before turning them loose on our pets... disgusting.

Get real people. The dog doesn't suffer and other dogs profit from this. Where's the harm?

Edited May 4, 2011 by poodlefan

[stormie]

The thing is, that Vets also need to learn what to do if something goes wrong. They get to learn what happens if they accidentally cut/tie off the wrong thing, let the animal get too deep under GA etc etc. They get to see the physical changes that happen right there and then and learn to identify the problem.

Emergency situations can be simulated, like a penetrating wound to the chest or abdomen, all whilst the animal is under GA and the students can learn what do to. That's not something you can go and watch over and over to learn, because it's not something routinely seen.

I would rather Vets learnt these types of things on animals that are already destined to be pts, rather than on people's pets.

[~Anne~]

I am not overly concenred about Vet students using live animals as part of their studies. In fact, I am in favour of the practice.

However, these statements concern me;

.......MELBOURNE University is using healthy dogs - some of them pregnant..................

....A student who did not want to be named said she had been given a bitch carrying seven unborn pups for surgery practice.................

A pregnant bitch? Is this one from their 'colony'? Sorry, but to allow a bitch awaiting fate of death to become pregnant is a little off. Was she pregnant when she first came in? How far along was she? Why couldn't the pups be aborted?

..............She said other students had been given two-month-old pups.................

What kind of 'practice' surgery needs to be done on infants? Where did the pups come from? Where they bred by the Uni? Were they surrendered?

...........Every year, dozens of dogs are taken out of the faculty's special "dog colony" - a row of cages - for student operations.

A dog colony? Who cares for them while they are in this 'colony' and how long do they stay in the 'colony' before being euth's?

.............. "Most dogs were absolutely petrified - so scared that the students couldn't walk them on a lead through the door of the hospital.

Why the hell are the dogs scared?

...........Prof Hinchcliff refused to reveal where the dogs came from, saying only they were "donated".

Fabulous. Hiding where they come from suggests that allowing the information to be public knowledge will cause issue. Why? What are they hiding?

.......................... the university advertised for unwanted pets and former farm and breeding dogs.

So there isn't enough already in pounds in Melb being euthd? We now have to advertise for MORE?

...................Greyhound Victoria admitted it provided dogs to the university.Dr Wirth said the use of the dogs was a waste of life.

This industry has enough shit under its butt with the fact that we need hound rescues in the first place. Disgusting.

Edited May 4, 2011 by ~Anne~

[persephone]

I don't understand why it upsets people.

The dogs are scheduled to be put to sleep at the pound and instead of getting a needle and thrown in a bin, these dogs get attention from the students and something positive comes from their death.

If you want to get angry / upset direct it at the byb, the puppy farms, the owners that ditch their dogs because they can't be bothered anymore and don't have the guts to take the dog to the vet for pts. Lobby your councils to enforce existing laws, encourage family and friends to desex and rescue or buy from ethical registered breeders.

As for students practising their skills at Vet surgeries .... would you want your dog to be the subject? Yes, they do watch, and learn ..but actual surgery, watching how the body reacts, just seeing how the inside of an alive, breathing body works- and what happens when you do X .. that learning is priceless, and I am pleased that the poor dogs/cats who otherwise would have just been needled are contributing to the health/wellbeing of all the loved/owned ones out there.

The world is full of unpleasantness, folks - and some of the unpleasant things need to be done for good things to happen.

There are MUCH WORSE things happening to dogs & cats & budgies all over the world.!!!

[poodlefan]

I am not overly concenred about Vet students using live animals as part of their studies. In fact, I am in favour of the practice.

However, these statements concern me;

.......MELBOURNE University is using healthy dogs - some of them pregnant..................

....A student who did not want to be named said she had been given a bitch carrying seven unborn pups for surgery practice.................

..............She said other students had been given two-month-old pups.................

...........Every year, dozens of dogs are taken out of the faculty's special "dog colony" - a row of cages - for student operations.

.............. "Most dogs were absolutely petrified - so scared that the students couldn't walk them on a lead through the door of the hospital.

...........Prof Hinchcliff refused to reveal where the dogs came from, saying only they were "donated".

.......................... the university advertised for unwanted pets and former farm and breeding dogs.

...................Greyhound Victoria admitted it provided dogs to the university.Dr Wirth said the use of the dogs was a waste of life.

Dogs fitting those descriptions die in Australian pounds every day. Is anyone going to suggest that a pound environment is stress free?

I'm not wild about this practice but lets keep it at the top of our minds that these are not dogs that are going to have a life beyond this anyway.

Edited May 4, 2011 by poodlefan