Lindainfa Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 My boy had a lot more white on his chest when I took him home, now its so small, like the tiniest patch of white that you cant notice it. Small bits of white on the chest seems to occur frequently in Black and Tans and I don't think it has anything to do with how well bred they are. They are still classed as black and tan because tri colours have white on their face whereas Black and Tan do not. If he is for a pet home, I wouldn't worry about it, it will slowly grow smaller. The health testing is more important. Arnie is the most gentle, loving sweet man and all the white in the world wouldn't change that!! :D Got any pics?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindainfa Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Infact, just looking at my signature pic (excuse his messy fur his legs were wet). You can see the little patch of white, looking at it now, it looks smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindainfa Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) When he was a pup: Now: If you really wanted too, you could trim the white bits and the black hair would grow over it. Edited May 4, 2011 by Lindainfa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 They can get smaller & you can pluck the white hairs BUT if the black n tan is the colour you want then i hope you dont plan to clip it off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanova Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 My latest 2 B/T babies both have white on them (Dad is a Tri colour) which I'm hoping gets smaller and blends in as they get their full coats. If not I'll still love them & think they are perfect [A healthy sound puppy from a registered breeder with a dash of white on its chest is worth more than a litter of byb pups in peace of mind. It is not markings that you are paying for.] Definately agree with this statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnnP Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 just thought I'd post a pic of my Ruby Cav - Mickey [avatar] - we adore him - not a show dog - just a very much loved part of the family - better than the kids most of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Personally as a pet a very small amount of white is really not worth even thinking about, never mind worrying about. If he is sound physicallya nd mentally and the breeder does all the health checks and you have the breeder back up, then take the pupppy. A good dog cannot be a bad colour! If he was for showing purposes then I would wait until a correctly marked puppy was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Just curious, about this white issue. Black white and tan (tri) is acceptable and black and tan is acceptable. But as I read the standard to be tri the dog have to have enough white, and to be black and tan it can not have any white. So a tri dog can not be tri if it has a little bit of white and can not be black and tan either. So is not registered on main and is eliminated from breeding. This flaw that makes it a dog that should never be breed from is not enough white to be tri and too much white to be a black and tan. Can anyone explain why this matters to the breed, why is so important to the breed that a tri have enough white and just a little white is very bad and that would eliminate these dogs from breeding? What is the negative affect, that would happen to the breed if a tri had less white than the desired amount of white? This precieved defect of not enough white on a tri must happen all the time, as if white (the S series genes) is allowed at all, it will keep popping up in different amounts. So how many pups are year are born that are eliminated from breeding because they are a tri with out enough white or a black and tan with a spot of white(a tri)? Are any of these dogs ever consider to be grown out and tested for mitral valve disease and Syringomyelia? If they were normal for these diseases, mitral valve disease and Syringomyelia, would any breeder ever consider using them to help reduce the chance of these diseases in the offspring (and future generations)? I notice there is also congenital deafness in this breed. This type of deafness is thought to be connected to white (S series genes). This might mean that tris with more white would have more risk of deafness than tris with less white. Is this of any consideration to the breeders of tris with more white? Edited May 16, 2011 by shortstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Lindainfa, those photos with white & without are both lovely. I agree with the folk who've said whether the white fades or not, it's no problem for a pedigree dog, sound in health & temperament...as a pet. I also agree that even if something 'cosmetic' survives into adulthood, it can become a loveable, unique feature of a dog. Not colour, but a bump on the skull! Our 'Swedish' tibbie girl has a distinct small bump on her head. When showed, judges often mentioned it. But, in her after-life as a pet, it makes her look like one of those cupie dolls that had a little bump on their heads. Cute as a button. Edited May 17, 2011 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 <Black white and tan (tri) is acceptable and black and tan is acceptable. But as I read the standard to be tri the dog have to have enough white, and to be black and tan it can not have any white. So a tri dog can not be tri if it has a little bit of white and can not be black and tan either. So is not registered on main and is eliminated from breeding. This flaw that makes it a dog that should never be breed from is not enough white to be tri and too much white to be a black and tan. Can anyone explain why this matters to the breed, why is so important to the breed that a tri have enough white and just a little white is very bad and that would eliminate these dogs from breeding? What is the negative affect, that would happen to the breed if a tri had less white than the desired amount of white? > Shortstep the standard is what we aim for in the show ring and when breeding. A lot of black and tans are born with some white on them. Colour is just cosmetic. When assessing a dog for the show ring or for breeding conformation and health are more important (IMO). There are many dogs who have done well in the show ring despite having a little white or not as much white as is desirable. For example if there are two dogs in the ring which are identical in every aspect (yeah I know that doesn't happen . If they really are equal the dog with the better markings should win. If the dogs are not of equal quality but the better put together dog is not as well marked it should really beat the better marked one. I've often kept a ruby with some white rather than a sibling from a litter if the one with white is the better pup. And wholecolours with white and particolours that are heavily marked can and are used for breeding if they are lovely, well put together dogs with good health. I know I've rambled - hope it makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) <Black white and tan (tri) is acceptable and black and tan is acceptable. But as I read the standard to be tri the dog have to have enough white, and to be black and tan it can not have any white. So a tri dog can not be tri if it has a little bit of white and can not be black and tan either. So is not registered on main and is eliminated from breeding. This flaw that makes it a dog that should never be breed from is not enough white to be tri and too much white to be a black and tan. Can anyone explain why this matters to the breed, why is so important to the breed that a tri have enough white and just a little white is very bad and that would eliminate these dogs from breeding? What is the negative affect, that would happen to the breed if a tri had less white than the desired amount of white? > Shortstep the standard is what we aim for in the show ring and when breeding. A lot of black and tans are born with some white on them. Colour is just cosmetic. When assessing a dog for the show ring or for breeding conformation and health are more important (IMO). There are many dogs who have done well in the show ring despite having a little white or not as much white as is desirable. For example if there are two dogs in the ring which are identical in every aspect (yeah I know that doesn't happen . If they really are equal the dog with the better markings should win. If the dogs are not of equal quality but the better put together dog is not as well marked it should really beat the better marked one. I've often kept a ruby with some white rather than a sibling from a litter if the one with white is the better pup. And wholecolours with white and particolours that are heavily marked can and are used for breeding if they are lovely, well put together dogs with good health. I know I've rambled - hope it makes sense! Thanks Gretal, that is good to hear that people do show them and they will be looked at by the judges and placed.So then why is everyone saying to take the dog only if she wants a pet but to wait for one with out the dab of white on the chest if she wants to show? Also can you explain why the tri (why the standard says so and everyone seems to think so) has to have a lot of white? What is the reasons that a small abount of white on a tri is 'not good'. How does more white on a tri affect the breed in a positive way and less white in a negative way? Edited May 17, 2011 by shortstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 When I was getting my golden retreiver pup as a pet I was allowed to have one of the two girls - the breeder wanted to keep one for showing and was not going to decide until 8 weeks old. Every week the breeder would send me pictures and every week I prayed it was going to be the darker girl. The breeder ended up choosing the lighter girl as the darker girl had too much white on her front and her paws and her head. Tilly still has a bit of white on her, not as much as she did when she was a pup but she is just the greatest dog, her breeder thinks now she made the wrong choice and is urging me to enter Tilly into neuter classes. And as for her sister, hated showing. Basically what I'm saying don't miss out on a great dog because of a few white hairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 <So then why is everyone saying to take the dog only if she wants a pet but to wait for one with out the dab of white on the chest if she wants to show?> If it was a stunning dog and didn't have too much white I'd still show it but a new person coming into the breed would be better off getting a pup that is well marked to start with. Some judges are tougher than other's on mismarkings. <Also can you explain why the tri (why the standard says so and everyone seems to think so) has to have a lot of white? What is the reasons that a small abount of white on a tri is 'not good'. How does more white on a tri affect the breed in a positive way and less white in a negative way?> It doesn't have to have a lot of white but the white breaks up the colour and is pleasing to the eye. A tricolour that doesn't have a blaze doesn't usually look as pretty as a tri with a blaze. I did show a tri without a blaze and she did title. She was pretty but she would have done better with a blaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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