Concerned About Indies Weight Loss

[julzjc]

Hey guys. I (and the whole family) are getting really concerned about Indies weight loss since Bonnie past away two weeks ago. Sorry about the novel.....

He has always been a skinny boy but even then he had muscle covering his bones. He has "only" lost 1 1/2kg in the past two weeks but for a 19kg dog thats already skinny, its extremly noticable.

Just going to get straight to the point. I know older dogs can die from heartbreak, but can a young, healthy 20mth old? Keep being told "dont wory, he will eat when hes hungry"...well, no, hes not. I want to know how serious the risk is that he could make himself ill?

We have tried to feed him EVERYTHING under the sun. His bowl has never been left down for more than 15-20min in the past, so he knows it is a case of "eat it now or never", but the past few days we have left it out in desperation that he will eat eventually.

We have tried chicken raw/cooked, chicken carasses/leg/neck, steak r/c, sausages r/c, tuna , eggs r/c, kibble, cat food, dog rolls, toast, peanut butter, sardines, every bone you can imagine, lamb necks, pasta, rice, beef gravey, vitabrixs, ham, every cooked meal we have eaten....he wont have any of it.

Hes survived past 2 weeks on 1 rib bone, 3 small chickens legs and one bite of a lamb neck. Friday we discovered he loved sliced ham..managed to get him to eat 2slices of it each day...untill yesterday.

He has been at the dog park every second or third day for 3hrs at a time, taken him to the beach twice for half day excurisons (wed and sunday which resulted in nothing to eat wed and 2slices of ham Sunday), trying to make him hungry by excerising him just to see if he just choosing not to eat because hes not burning fat with exercising (self regulation).

Thought Id give it another shot yesterday morning and took him for an 1 1/2 gentle-ish walk. WORST thing I could have done..he flat out refused to eat anything yesterday, even trying to hand feed him ham didnt work or a bowl of tuna,pasta and raw meat. He has beome so lethargic since the walk yesterday, just huddled up in a tight ball in his bed or on the grass. Wouldnt even get up to greet us, even with the kids making lots of noise yesterday/today he barley opens his eyes.

Its hard to see from these photos how skinny he is beacuse of his fur but they are the best I could get. Ive had a couple people go to pat him and then almost wrech at the sensation of his hips and spine jutting out. Under his "fluffy pants", his butt bones are sticking out so sharply, as is his sterum (I can easily put my fingers under his ribcage). I was cuddling him this morning and he is now starting to loose weight from his skull and neck (very noticable difference for me touching him but impossible to see beacuse of his coat). His coat is also starting to look moth-eaten and his teeth are yellowing from not chewing on anything.

Im really getting worried about him. Can he possibly starve himself? Ive heard it said that a dog will never let itself starve but Im really starting to question that, especially now he is becomming so lethargic.

The photos really dont show how boney he really is (lost more weight since these were taken last week) but you should have seen him after he had a swim on Sunday , it was heartbreaking.

Any advise greatly appricated guys. Am I worrying over nothing? Will he eat or can he make himself ill? Is there anything else I can try to make him eat? We really dont want to rush finding another dog just yet but do you honestly think its the only thing to help him?

Hes ment to be a young vibrant, energetic Sibe...he's acting more like an old boy on his last legs. He is happy when hes out and about but suffering exhaustion when he gets home. Ive even been putting him away when other kids visit as he is getting uncomforable with kids cuddling, leaning on his back end where he has lost so much muscle.

Taken the middle of last week, you can see all along his spine, his hip bones jutting out and he has lost alot of muscle from his hind and front legs.

Can see his individual ribs and hip bones.

Better photo of his hip bones

ETA~

Sorry everyone, I was in a rush to go pick up the kids from school. A bit more info...

He was at the vet in the first week that Bonnie past away, maybe 3 or 4days afterwards? As he hadnt eaten a single mouthfull and was so stressed. It must have been the Thursday as it was the day before good Friday (which was a VERY bad day for Indie (tried throwing himself through a closed window to get to me but thats settled down a bit now). Blood works came back fine. Vet just said not to spoil him/encouage his anxiety, offer him different things, and try exercising him (ie he is a Sibe and without Bonnie to tire him out perhaps he was just self regulating his food intake, not burning fat so not wanting to eat).

Dont worry, after what the walk yesterday did to him, which I fell utterly awfull about, I am not taken him letting him exercise atall untill he starts putting weight on.

Ive tried bbq chicken, resulted in him eating a tiny sliver of it and me having to sweep up the rest. Tried feeding him when we are out and about, wont even look at it. Tried making him work for it with basic commands etc, takes it in his mouth and drops it on the floor.

Ive stolen the neighbours cav x for a play date and a friends jack russel puppy....Indie had the best time BUT still wouldnt eat, when they were there or after they had left. Both dogs ended up eating his food instead, he just went to his bed to sleep.

Edited May 3, 2011 by julzjc

[poodlefan]

He looks pretty thin to me.

I'd be starting with a visit to the vet to eliminate a physical cause for the loss of appetite. I'd also be cutting the exercise back a fair bit until he's eating again.

Dogs can suffer from depression so it the vet can't identify anything physically wrong, I'd be looking down the path of some anti-depressants to see if that would help.

What were his favourite foods before?

[persephone]

I would strongly advise a vet check . if he is lethargic and apathetic- he needs to have bloods etc done . he 'may' be fretting, but the stress of losing Bonnie may have lowered his immubity, and he may now be ill with who knows what ...

Vet first- then a behaviourist, if his physical self is OK.

meanwhile- perhaps cut down on the exercise? Fasting and working out are not a good combination for anyone

[B-Q]

Has he been to the vet to see if there are unferlying health issues you don'tknow about?

also, heres a link on Satin Balls. They are a mix that are meant to put weight on dogs fast, we looked into them when our old girl started loosing weight. but if he's refusing to eat then they may not help.

http://www.holisticdog.org/Nutrition/Satin...satinballs.html

Edited May 3, 2011 by B-Q

[Leelaa17]

Im so sorry to hear this and I can imagine you would be quite distressed.

I agree with the others - the first thing I thought about when reading your post was 'vet'. Go the vet because if worst comes to worst then he might need to be put on a drip to get some sort of fluids and nutrients into him... (I don't know whether a drip provides nutrients - pardon my ignorance on that matter!)

And he does look skinny - you can see it from the photos. Again, I think your first point of call needs to be the vet.

Also, he is probably lethargic and exhausted after exercise because he hasn't eaten anything. When exercising for such long periods of time and then not eating can exhaust you because you aren't eating anything therefore you aren't getting any energy into your systems which means when exercising, you are burning off the energy that you have stored. Does that make sense?

Basically it means - I would stop exercising for the time being, until he starts eating again, because I would say the exercise is what is making him lethargic.

Is he drinking water?

[Christina]

Poor dog. I would give him time to grieve & not take him to the normal places he went to with Bonnie. Maybe just closer to home for now & less exercise.

Maybe try some Tranquil Paste from a fodder store. It is a vitamin type thing that calms & soothes but has no drugs/medicine in it. Relaxes them. Really good for my boys when girls are on heat & they stress. I don't get skinny boys since using that.

Would not go anti depressant. Thing is that its right for him to be depressed for now. Also if the medication does not do what its supposed to & has a side effect the dog cannot tell you. When these kind of drugs alter your brain chemistry & make it go awry it can be drastic & how will you know ? Dog can't speak.

Short trips to new places, lots of pats, any food he wants, left out all the time, let him pick if he wants to.

Just takes time I guess & that is variable not set. Doubt he will starve himself to death even though its a worry.

[harley]

Poor Indie

I recommend the vet too.

You said he is happy when he is out, perhaps give him something to eat when you are out (as long at it doesn't coincide with strenuous exercise)

Maybe he associates home with the loss of Bonnie and just doesn't want to eat there yet?

Does he have any other doggy friends who could come over for a play?

Good luck

[cornell]

I am shocked to hear about Bonnie after all that you have all been through in the past year

Your tribute to her was so beautiful.

I wish that I could offer some useful advice to help.

All I can think of is offering BBQ chicken. Our vet said they use it for pets that won't eat. Our two also go nuts for liver treats in particular.

These might only be short term band aids but I am sure that you will get more great advice form the forum.

Good luck Indie!!

[persephone]

I still think a vet visit would be the first step..however I remembered once when I was looking after very valuable shedded sheep- and one wouldn't eat! I resorted to rescue Remedy Put a few drops on his gums... then a couple minutes later, offered food .To my surprise, he ate ! I had to do this a few times a day for a couple of days .. but it worked . No appetite- RR- eat something !

Don't ask me why ...but perhaps it will help Indie?

[Guest RANDCMOORE31]

I've used some stuff from the vet before (I think it's called Nutripet). It's a vitamin paste for dogs that are underweight, convalescing, won't eat etc. It smells a bit like chocolate - and might just help him keep going until he improves. Good Luck - the poor fella does look thin!

[schnauzer]

I would do as others have suggested, vet first with full blood panel, reduce exercise to gentle short walks on leash. Lots of free running will strip weight off a dog very quickly if they are poorly. Good luck

Edited May 3, 2011 by schnauzer

[julzjc]

Sorry everyone, I was in a rush to go pick up the kids from school. Ill go edit my post a bit.

He was at the vet in the first week that Bonnie past away, maybe 3 or 4days afterwards? As he hadnt eaten a single mouthfull and was so stressed. It must have been the Thursday as it was the day before good Friday (which was a VERY bad day for Indie (tried throwing himself through a closed window to get to me but thats settled down a bit now). Blood works came back fine. Vet just said not to spoil him/encouage his anxiety, offer him different things, and try exercising him (ie he is a Sibe and without Bonnie to tire him out perhaps he was just self regulating his food intake, not burning fat so not wanting to eat).

Dont worry, after what the walk yesterday did to him, which I fell utterly awfull about, I am not taken him letting him exercise atall untill he starts putting weight on.

Ive tried bbq chicken, resulted in him eating a tiny sliver of it and me having to sweep up the rest. Tried feeding him when we are out and about, wont even look at it. Tried making him work for it with basic commands etc, takes it in his mouth and drops it on the floor.

Ive stolen the neighbours cav x for a play date and a friends jack russel puppy....Indie had the best time BUT still wouldnt eat, when they were there or after they had left. Both dogs ended up eating his food instead, he just went to his bed to sleep.

Tranquil Paste, Nutripet, Rescue Remedy Ill go look into all of them! I live up the street a racecourse/riding school etc so Ill drop by the fodder store in the morning (will they have it in there?). I would try anything right now. Ive had a dog on either seditive pills or anti depressents before back in Scotland and hated the effect they had on him so would rather avoid them but Ill deffinatly try them if non of the above work.

Honestly, how bad does he look in those photos? Im used so seeing him 24/7 so not sure how shocking or okish he actually looks to everyone else. Cuddling him right now is awfull, almost makes your skin crawl feeling his bones sticking out. I wont let anyone outside family touch him just now, lest I have the rspca knocking on my door.

[julzjc]

Where can I get rescue remedy from? Have a feeling someone said the chemist before or am I making that up?

[Bully]

Was going to suggest Rescue Remedy but its already been mentioned. The homeopathic remedy Ignatia is for grief. Also agree with a visit to the vet. Hope Indie is feeling better soon

[ish]

You can get Nutrigel from Vet n Pet Direct at a good price (though they have a minimium $20 spend I think) - some Lectade sachets might be a valuable thing to be giving him too, to keep his strength up.

Poor fella, hope he picks up soon

[Bully]

Where can I get rescue remedy from? Have a feeling someone said the chemist before or am I making that up?

Chemist or Health Food Store

[persephone]

..and perhaps a different vet?

[Bully]

Some of the other Bach Flower Remedies might be beneficial. Check with the Health Food Store, they should be able to advise.

Also what about those DAP diffusers? They are supposed to be effective. Someone might be able to chime in here with more info

[Aziah]

He does look very thin and I know you must be feeling really anxious about and he'll also be picking up on that and possibly feeling lots of pressure to eat if that makes sense.

I agree with Perse, second opinion...

I also feel you need to decide on the food, make up some satin balls for instance and assuming there's no medical reason for his severe decline in weight then start back with the put it down and take it away method. If he doesn't eat it don't work yourself up, take it away, do something else before paying him any attention. if he eats, great, a quick good boy and walk away...

You don't want eating to be a chore and you don't want to have to praise for eating given it's something that should be happening without fuss.

ETA: if all else fails you might need to look into purchasing an older bitch?

Edited May 3, 2011 by Aziah

[ozjen]

I would be concerned that a vet hasn't responded more to this dogs condition as it seems to me that it goes way beyond grieving and there may be another underlying cause. Has his mouth been checked for any issues like problem teeth, ulcers, throat inflamation. He appears very thin and will be more supseptable to illness in his current state if he continues not to eat. It must be so hard for you to see him going through this after the loss of your other dog and being at a loss as to what to do to help him, but remember that you are trying your best to help him so don't beat yourself up about it.

Another thing you could try is boiling liver in some water, put it through the blender and use the gravy over whatever food you give him. Probabaly best to give just a little at a time in his current state as too much could upset his stomach and he doesn't currently have any reserves so can't affort to get the runs. You could try blending up some other meats for him too in case he will take them this way so that he is getting at least some nutrition into him. Other possiable options are adding something like Livamol to his food either sprinkled on or made into a slurry with a little water. This is mean't to be extremly attractive to animals and is recommended for encouraging convalesing animals to eat as well as being beneficial. Stockfeed places usually have it quiet cheaply, I got 1kg the other day for around $6 and the dosage for dogs is around 1 or 2 tablespoons full depending I suppose on size of dog although I think they are basing that on a medium to large sized dog anyway.

Good luck with him and I'm so sorry about your other dog.