Lambo Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Hi folks, I'm struggling with whether or not to de-sex my male Weimaraner now (at 6 and 1/2 months) or wait until he reaches 9 months. Our breeder recommended 9 months of age and a friend of mine with an entirely different breed (border collie) has said that her breeder recommended the same thing. Despite this, two vets have advised that a dog should really be desexed between 5 and 6 months to minimize the possibility of testicular cancer. My vet says that desexing at this age will not affect growth or muscular development etc, and any suggestion that a male dog desexed before nine months will look a little more "feminine" is hogwash. To clarify, my dog is just a family pet. He isn't a show dog, so getting just the right "look" is of no consequence for me. However, I have noticed that he is a little on the timid side with other dogs - especially older male dogs. I'm not sure if this is just a socialisation thing (he has had some interaction with other dogs but I wouldn't say a great deal), or whether I really should let him grow a bigger set of balls (to put it a little crassly) for a while longer so that the testosterone kicks in and hopefully makes him just a little more self-assertive. Does anyone have any views on this issue? Thanks in advance. **edited to fix typos** Edited May 3, 2011 by Lambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Personally for me, for a bigger breed I will wait till they are least over a year old. But if your breeder said 9 months, then wait till he is 9 months. He is still a growing boy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Wait. Personally I'd wait until 12 months. Your vet's advice is strange to put it mildly. No testicles, no risk of testicular cancer. Are they really saying a 7 month old pup is at risk?? If you want him to be more confident then socialisation, not testicles is what he needs. Edited May 3, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzlestick Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I would wait until 9-12 mths. I am a Vet Nurse, and our vets would be desexing him around 3-5mths, but I strongly disagree with this (especially in a larger breed like a Weim) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 A lot of vets will suggest young desexing and it has to do with the fact that if they're desexed young, there'll be no accidents. I had my husky desexed at 5.5 months and I wouldn't do it that young again and would wait until at least 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Q Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Quinn will be done somwhere between about 14 and 24 months. I was planning on doing it after 12 months and after her first heat but the more I read I think the longer I'll wait. If I can't train her to run beside my bike untill she's 18-24 months then I probably won't desex her till then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I'd give him at least 12-18 months before neutering. Give him a chance to grow and mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I agree with the other replies. Wait till at least 9 months. PF is right when she says socialising will help dog more than testicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) You might like to read this paper Given that you own a breed prone to thyroid issues, you might want to keep that in your mind as you read it. A copy for your vet might not go astray either. Edited May 3, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 You might like to read this paper Given that you own a breed prone to thyroid issues, you might want to keep that in your mind as you read it. A copy for your vet might not go astray either. I read this before I spayed Ruby. It is a very good balanced paper and I have never had a vet mention any of the risks involved with spaying and neutering. At least having acess to this information we can make informed decisions. Maybe we all should take a copy to our vets. The main reason they want us to spay is to stop unwanted litters etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I read this before I spayed Ruby. It is a very good balanced paper and I have never had a vet mention any of the risks involved with spaying and neutering. At least having acess to this information we can make informed decisions. Maybe we all should take a copy to our vets. The main reason they want us to spay is to stop unwanted litters etc. I'll confess that I simply do not understand how any vet could conclude that removal of a growing animal's testes or uterus would have "no effect" on it. These are probably the same vets who'll tell you that desexing will stop some unwanted behaviours. You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weibritty Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Lambo, I would wait until 18 months of age at the earliest to desex a Weimaraner. Sounds like your Wei could do with more socialisation with other dogs, if he is a little timid around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi folks,I struggling with whether or not to de-sex my male Weimaraner now (at 6 and 1/2 months) or wait until he eaches 9 months. Our breeder recommended 9 months of age and a friend of mine with an entirely different breed (border collie) has said that her breeder recommended the same thing. Despite this, two vets have advised that a dog should really be desexed between 5 and 6 months to minimize the possibility of testicular cancer. My vet says that desexing at this age will not affect growth or muscular development etc, and any suggestion that a male dog desexed before nine months will look a little more "feminine" is hogwash. Think about this for a second. The risk of testicular cancer in an adult male is reasonably low, the risk in a young male pup is just about zilch. Your pup is not going to develop cancer because you waited an extra 3 months to desex him! He may well be at a higher risk of other health issues if you desex him earlier though. Plus desexing a male at ANY age eliminates the risk of testicular cancer, not "minimises" it Listen to your breeder, she knows her lines best. ...personally I'd tell the vet to shove it and not desex until after 18 months minimum. Your dog, your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I agree with what others have said, and i wouldn't desex a male weimaraner in particular until after 12-18 months personally - and i would still be basing that on individual growth and development. Is there a particular reason why you do not feel comfortable waiting a bit longer to desex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambo Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 Thanks to everyone for the responses, particularly for the article referenced by poodlefan. To be perfectly honest I have no real desire to de-sex the little guy. In fact I feel downright bad for interfering with nature in electing to do so. I'm only de-sexing him because I've been told that (a) it makes for a calmer dog overall (which is important since I have young kids), and (b) it is my obligation as a responsible pet owner to do so, particularly as I have no desire or intention to use him for breeding purposes. For me then, its just a timing issue, and on that front (apart from what the vet has said) I've been told that it's best to get it over and done with as soon as possible around the 5 to 6 month mark so that the dog will not be aware of his loss as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Thanks to everyone for the responses, particularly for the article referenced by poodlefan.To be perfectly honest I have no real desire to de-sex the little guy. In fact I feel downright bad for interfering with nature in electing to do so. I'm only de-sexing him because I've been told that (a) it makes for a calmer dog overall (which is important since I have young kids), and (b) it is my obligation as a responsible pet owner to do so, particularly as I have no desire or intention to use him for breeding purposes. For me then, its just a timing issue, and on that front (apart from what the vet has said) I've been told that it's best to get it over and done with as soon as possible around the 5 to 6 month mark so that the dog will not be aware of his loss as much. Training and exercise is a better and more reliable option in that regard. I can think of plenty of desexed dogs with no manners. I would desex him when the time comes. If nothing else, it considerably lowers the risk of him being stolen. Edited May 3, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) IMO the most benefit from desexing @ 5-6 months is that the testicles are small so less trauma = less pain and faster healing. The other benefit is removing the chance of testosterone related male behaviour, be that territorial marking, humping cushions or kids or other dogs (in which case he might get himself in lots of strife) and testosterone related aggression. Be aware that you will need to identify those types of behaviours most importantly with other dogs at the park etc. You need to quickly intervene if he is starting to eyeball, challenge, growl at or stand over other dogs. The issue with testosterone related behaviours is that very quickly the dog learns that he gets gratification in the way of adrenalin for this behaviour so is inclined to repeat it where he feels necessary and this is the key: we can't tell from where it moves from hormone related behaviour to learned behaviour- so when people desex their dog and find the problem still exists they have one big headache to fix it. It depends what you want to do, understand that everyone is biased- sports dog owners would say it creates taller dogs and delays the closing of the growth plates- that's a reasonable consideration; Vets are talking about the welfare of your dog, and the cost to desex a 5 month old dog is much different to a 12 or 18mth old as they weigh more; people who are just against desexing due to their own moral values will state as such- that's fine but it's a decision you need to make for you. If you want a dog you can take anywhere, most importantly you want a social butterfly that can go to the dog park each day and romp then perhaps you might consider desexing @ 5 months. With male dogs it's a very subjective thing, some dogs use and abuse their hormones in their interactions with humans and other dogs, some dogs "don't know they have balls" so to speak. Although in my experience I've had more than one person say "Oh he's a lovely male, he doesn't know he has testicles" and I'm watching the dog carry out the full gamut of dominant or challenging type body language to any dog in the general vicinity. Edited May 3, 2011 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 If you want a dog you can take anywhere, most importantly you want a social butterfly that can go to the dog park each day and romp then perhaps you might consider desexing @ 5 months. you're making a big assumption here too that a dog left after 5 months with it's testicles in is going to pretty much guarentee a dog that you cannot take anywhere. Training and socialisation as well as genetic temperament are going to have a bigger impact in the long run. Desexing wont stop him bowling the kids over, pinching their toys or pulling their pants but training will. You also need to socialise him properly as that again will have a bigger impact on his long term behaviour, testosterone or not. I would be listening to your breeder before your vet. As for 'male behaviours' I have a pair of bitches that scratch grass, cock their leg, will hump other dogs and act like dominant cows if allowed ... obviously not an over testosterone problem Cancer risk, your vet probably meant prostate not testicular cancer. If you want the dog desexed to prevent accidents or in the case a neighbour around you decides keeping an entire bitch in their backyard (in which case you will be privy to all manner of carrying on from an entire dog) then go for it, but I would follow your breeders advice at the least. Personally I would wait until 12 months and over. As for entire dogs and kids not working together ... and I dont have kids of my own at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambo Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 IMO the most benefit from desexing @ 5-6 months is that the testicles are small so less trauma = less pain and faster healing. The other benefit is removing the chance of testosterone related male behaviour, be that territorial marking, humping cushions or kids or other dogs (in which case he might get himself in lots of strife) and testosterone related aggression. I forgot to mention that I'd read about these too. It's mainly for these reasons that I was thinking of giving him the snip sooner rather than later. In fact, he's already booked in for surgery this Friday. I'm just having second thoughts as the time gets closer as to whether it really is the best thing to do for him. To everyone else who has suggested to wait until he is 9 to 12 months old, what have your experiences been vis-a-vis these testosterone related issues? Is the risk of the problems materialising magnified by all that much if I wait the few extra months? You'd think this would be an easy decision, but it's proving more difficult than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 If the dog has a problem of over testosterone then yes, there will be a problem. Saying that you will know he is over testosteroned by the fact his testicles are roughly the size of small mangos and the pup has the attitude of a 21 year old male about to get into a friday night bar fight Having been a vet nurse I see no massive difference in trauma leaving them later too unless there is a problem like one has snuck back into the abdominal cavity or never descended at all. Considering we're talking a difference in months not years it's negligible. Bitches are a different issue since they develop a lot of vascularisation and abdominal fat around the intestines and organs. If you're not comfortable doing it now then dont. Remember you can always rebook a surgery but you cant put testicles back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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