kirst_goldens Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) I need help!! Dallas is great with everything... except walking on a lead!! and as a show pup she needs to get over this hahaha I walk her everywhere off lead and she trots along great but on lead she is desperate to get to everything and chokes herself... being a 9 week old golden she can get very boisterous lol She is starting to mouth alot as well and ARGGHH!! doesnt work anymore so trying the yelping and walking away... i have to be very careful though seems all my hard work is undone by friends and family when i take my eyes off them their hands mysteriously end up in puppys mouth.. VERY AGRAVATING!! she is standing and sitting and does 'watch' - looking at bait in my hand and we are working on "FREEZE!" she thinks its great fun lol So lead wise.. we have tried holding bait next to me on the left and walking but as soon as the bait runs out she is off in the other direction and if i hold the food out of reach she LAUNCHES at my hand and takes my fingers off!! I have also been letting her say hi on lead and then baiting and calling her away and giving treats but after a while she thinks the bait and cuddles are boring and she really just wants to play... she gets VERY worked up and then wont do ANYTHING for me wont even sit or watch.. not even sniff bait... Any help would be great Edited April 29, 2011 by kirst_goldens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Sounds like how we started with our pup. The only thing that fixed it was doing EVERYTHING on lead - feeding, toileting, obedience training. She even drags it around when roaming inside. 1 day and she was sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 interesting!! this is not doable for us but i will do as much as i can on lead tomorrow and see how i go! thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I actually really dislike luring, I have come to realise it triples the work load of teaching a new behaviour/adding a cue compared to marker training. You pretty much become dependant on either a lure or a hand signal. When I taught my dogs to walk next to me, I just used a clicker and clicked whenever they were next to me. That way you don't become dependant on any body or hand signal, and and the dog offers the behaviour on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 i lure for stacking as she is a goldie she stands nicely that way, i struggle with the lureing on the move though hahaha i dont clicker train i have considered it but its not something i want to get into unfortunalty.. thanks for the advice :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Maybe try walking her with other dogs that are well behaved on lead? I am really no help, Jovi came to me I suspect secretly leash trained as she walked perfectly from the start, a few hiccups and I just ignored her and she kept plodding along Personally though, I would keep walking and ignore her temper tantrums, she will eventually learn to accept the lead (and behave) and what it represents (walkies!!) I can clicker train her for you Any opportunity to sneek Goldie puppy cuddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 walking down the street she is perfect really its when there are dogs around that she goes feral... the distractions!! she jsut wants to play... whens ur next show?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 she's 9 weeks of age give her a break a couple of minutes at a time, if she nips or bites you just thumb under the tongue trick or a quick flick on the nose. Reward her for being super good, pups learn quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 The naughty Husky hated the lead at first - we got through it by having the lead on her and luring her forward with food. If she walked forward on the lead she'd get the treat. However we were so excited to get her walking that we let her pull and that caused issues later. Pretty sure Halo came lead trained. She was an angel in comparison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 she's 9 weeks of age give her a break a couple of minutes at a time, if she nips or bites you just thumb under the tongue trick or a quick flick on the nose. Reward her for being super good, pups learn quickly Seriously? Aren't you supposed to be a dog trainer? First of all, I would never recommend using pain or discomfort to punish a puppy. Secondly, puppies mouth, it's what they do, it's natural, it's like the stage that human toddlers go through where they put everything in their mouth. Thirdly, the only way a dog can learn bite inhibition is by being allowed to mouth. You only react when they bite so hard that it hurts, and then say 'ow' and end the game, get up and leave the room, use time outs etc. There is no need to use pain and discomfort to train a puppy, and if there is no need, why choose that method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Seriously? Aren't you supposed to be a dog trainer?First of all, I would never recommend using pain or discomfort to punish a puppy. Secondly, puppies mouth, it's what they do, it's natural, it's like the stage that human toddlers go through where they put everything in their mouth. Thirdly, the only way a dog can learn bite inhibition is by being allowed to mouth. You only react when they bite so hard that it hurts, and then say 'ow' and end the game, get up and leave the room, use time outs etc. There is no need to use pain and discomfort to train a puppy, and if there is no need, why choose that method? The pup has already learned to ramp up the nipping, which you have to nip in the bud. Dogs dont speak english, how do they know what OW means? Behaviours are better dealt with on the spot - a little discomfort never terrorised anyone, it's a surprise not a painful infliction of torture It is natural ... onto allowed chew items NOT people. You always reward the pup for not doing it but a little incentive to stop itself from biting you never went astray. And thirdly, stop reading bloody Ian Dumbar. A dog does NOT HAVE TO MOUTH YOU IN ORDER TO LEARN BITE INHIBITION. I say what I say because I've seen the dogs that have been allowed to mouth people as pups and they still do as adults. Then people like me get called because by then it hurts or it's destructive or even dangerous. Dogs are not allowed to put their mouths on people ever and thats a full stop. If you want to allow your dog to rake it's teeth on your arm and tug on you, good luck. I think it's highly irresponsible long term especially with some breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I say what I say because I've seen the dogs that have been allowed to mouth people as pups and they still do as adults. Then people like me get called because by then it hurts or it's destructive or even dangerous. Dogs are not allowed to put their mouths on people ever and thats a full stop. If you want to allow your dog to rake it's teeth on your arm and tug on you, good luck. I think it's highly irresponsible long term especially with some breeds. What breeds? I wouldn't worry too much kirst_goldens, she is only 9 weeks old at that age they are all psycho around other dog/pups (esp retriever breeds!). Perhaps teach her "look" and use that to get her attention. My lab puppy used to bite my whole hand when she took a treat, I had to teach her to be "gentle" when taking a treat. She is now quite good with taking treats but every now and then she forgets and goes for your whole hand if you forget to tell her to be gentle beforehand- I think this is her natural instinct, some dogs appear to be instinctively delicate with taking treats. She was also a really mouthy pup and still loves carrying stuff around in her mouth but doesn't try to mouth people anymore. We just gave her mainly verbal corrections (but sometimes the water spray bottle) when she did try to mouth us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Panzer Attack! Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Kirst, Scooter was SHOCKING on the lead at 9 weeks, crocodile rolls, temper tantrums. I spent a little part of each day (10 mins or so) tying him to me via lead and he just had to walk with me. He's quite good on the lead now considering how little I've trained him. At 9 weeks he had the attention span of a gnat, and now he's beginning to come good and focus a little more. Good luck with her, you'll be fine! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 And thirdly, stop reading bloody Ian Dumbar. A dog does NOT HAVE TO MOUTH YOU IN ORDER TO LEARN BITE INHIBITION.I say what I say because I've seen the dogs that have been allowed to mouth people as pups and they still do as adults. Then people like me get called because by then it hurts or it's destructive or even dangerous. Dogs are not allowed to put their mouths on people ever and thats a full stop. If you want to allow your dog to rake it's teeth on your arm and tug on you, good luck. I think it's highly irresponsible long term especially with some breeds. This comment really has me intrigued on the whole allowing v not allowing mouthing (I'm no dog expert and when I asked about puppy raising on here everyone pointed me to Dr Dunbar's book). We hand feed (following a NILIF philosophy - so pup works for every bit of food) and have never had pup attempt to nip hands. I'm off to do a search of the forum now to see if this has been discussed before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Kirst, Scooter was SHOCKING on the lead at 9 weeks, crocodile rolls, temper tantrums. I spent a little part of each day (10 mins or so) tying him to me via lead and he just had to walk with me. He's quite good on the lead now considering how little I've trained him. At 9 weeks he had the attention span of a gnat, and now he's beginning to come good and focus a little more. Good luck with her, you'll be fine! :D Same Panzer, Sonny & Stella were shockers when they were just babies. we also had croc rolls & tanti's by the dozen !!! Sonny would just plant his butt on the ground & look at me as much to say, "And wat do you intend to do about that". :D Then cry out & throw himself on the ground in disgust. Stella was excellent in reverse with the lead in her mouth. So I just got all the patience I could muster & lots of treats & praise, praise & more praise. A couple of minutes at a time. 2 steps at a time sometimes. And just be consistant. Best of luck at this trying time. You'll be o.k. Im sure. Just remember she is just a baby & to have fun with her. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 particularly mouthy or pushy breeds that already have a propensity to inflict a hard nip. Then there are the individual dogs as well that you just see that self control is beyond them. No dog that has passed through my hands mouths me. They never have, never will. My second working line mal is taught to go mouth her toys NOT me if she wants to latch onto something. There is theory, then there is practice. The average joe blow is not a dog trainer. They dont really know about the intricacies of shaping a dog to get to what you want, learning theory etc. Why would you then go 'let your dog mouth you until it's painful for you then squeal'... just hope they didnt get a high drive dog that then takes that squeal as a cue to keep going. Most people will get bitten, angry at the pup (for what, you let it mouth you then you just decide it's enough? Confusing much?) or not do it properly and end up with a bigger problem when the dog matures or is teething and not listening. There is no need for a dog to chew on you whatever the level - thats what toys are for. Also, remember a dogs behaviour will change with maturity ... we've all seen it, they get cranky, dont listen, ramp up a notch or three, grabbing the leash, etc why chance a nip on the hand? Stonecutter if your dog has learned from the start behaving = getting fed then you have avoided that problem totally. Not every pup will nip or bite but the ones that do need a hand at learning it's wrong and there's a better way to behave :D We dont let toddlers smack their parents so they learn 'what is too hard a slap' do we? The minute a child smacks their parents its time out! What is the difference with a puppy? Thats my theory and I stick to it. Like I said, you dont have to be mean and definately dont hurt the dog, give the pup chances to win ALWAYS and learn but if they lunge or grab you hard ... sorry you stuffed up and there's a consequence. The little gears will roll and the pup will think, hmmm that is so not worth it! and remember the lesson. Two littermates playing cause a heck of a lot more sensation then I ever will to a dog. *** Apologies if I railroaded your thread *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 walking down the street she is perfect really its when there are dogs around that she goes feral... the distractions!! she jsut wants to play... whens ur next show?? Bulla :D You can use Jovi as a distraction, she will just ignore Dallas I agree with Nekhbet. Owning a naturally mouthy breed and most gundogs will be mouthy, Jovi was the worst one out of my three as a puppy. I tried squealing when it hurt, and what do you know? Like most high drive dogs well that was most exciting and you could just see her face go "crazy"! I became a moving squeaky toy for her! A few goes doing as Nekhbet says and suddenly it's not so fun any more and I have no issues with her now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothieGirl Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) Kirst, how does she tolerate a collar? My guys just kind of adapt, I put on a light collar from day one unless I'm not home. I try to train following or walking with me a little bit off lead initially, then after a couple of days put on a light lead. Bronte needed a couple of short sessions just dragging it around herself, then just ignored it. Ren (being the cool dude he is) just accepted it straight away pretty much. Then I encourage them to walk with me using lure (luring only becomes relied upon when you forget to remove it and also forget to up your expectations for them to take responsibiity for their behaviour) and I just hold the lead but don't use it. Then after they get used to this (few days) I start to be a little more insistent that they accept the lead for what it is. If the puppy baulks when I move I will hold the pressure on the lead, don't pull BUT don't release either. As soon as she gives she needs lots of praise, treat, play, and a cuddle. Based on what you've mentioned about her already I reckon she's going to have a throw down fit about it the first couple of times, so stick to your guns. You won't be hurting her, as soon as she releases to the pressure she'll get her own relief. She's a smart cookie, she'll work it out real quick. Just work on this is short bursts and if you get a great success for the day, stop, quit, don't do anymore until tomorrow, no matter how much you will be tempted. As Nekhbet says though she's only 9 weeks so give her a bit of a break. You can't show her for a while yet anyway, so just enjoy her. If you get stuck I'm happy to come for puppy cuddles and see how its all going. Fuzzy, putting a thumb under a pup's tongue and hold their lower jaw doesn't hurt. Its based upon pressure and control, not pain. They don't like it because they aren't getting their own way and so they learn not to repeat the behaviour that invites you to thumb them. Edited April 30, 2011 by SmoothieGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 hey everyone!! great advice thanks!! I was going to try the thumb under the tongue trick but i wasnt sure if it was a good idea so young - conflicting stories!! i shall implement it as of now! I have been doing lead work of a night just walking up and down the court with lureing and she si pretty good the worst bit is when she is trying to get to the other doggies.. but m hopeing if she gets the walking in a straight line bit right the rest will come with time I know she is young and im not pressuring her i just looked around and thought wow is it me or am i the only one whose dog is feral on lead?? maybe i shoudl fix that bahaha its hard cause i compare her to her litter brother who was also at show training but so tired he struggled to lift his feet so he looked like and angel in comparrison hahaha i always go to work and look at the dogs there and think if those families can raise a dog this well then so can i!! bahaha no probs hijacking thread either i learnt alot from the detour thanks i am lureing for stand and watch and sit and now walking on lead so i hope she will put it all together soon Thanks again!! SG - she used to scratch at her lead all the time so now she wears a collar all the time to help get used ot it but with the way her coat is growing she wont be able to wear it for long before it starts buggering up her coat bahaha bloody fluff ball!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 tollers u mean the autumn show at bulla?? we will be there for the saturday show as dallas' first show and then the sunday we havea the goldie open show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now