Fighting Council Dog By-laws

[Remarkabull]

Is there any way that one could fight a council ruling on the keeping of more than 2 dogs.

I am going to go through the correct process and pay for a application for a licence to keep 3 dogs (not re-fundable even if rejected) but have been told by the head ranger that he would not expect it to be approved in my circumstances. Apparently they are not 'exceptional' enough.

If it is denied what other options do I have, if any? Can I take it to court and more importantly what would my chances of success be?

[Lindainfa]

I wouldn't tell. :D

[Remarkabull]

I wouldn't tell. :D

Considered that but the rangers here do alot of driving around and looking in yards and if we were caught out then I'd say that our chances of getting approved would be completely zero.

Anyway, I have already been to the council and given them my details so I'm sure that they will be 'checking up' on me now, so there is no way to avoid going through the corect procedures now.

[Dxenion]

Which council are you in?

I would have a close read of the bylaws re granting the keeping of more than two dogs. Somewhere in there it should spell out exactly what circumstances are considered as 'exceptional'. If it doesn't, ask them to clarify in writing. That will give you the basis on what you will need to meet their requirements so that they can grant you the licence.

I'm guessing that a legalese person would need to know more about your situation:

Do you live there permanently or are you just there for work (if so, for how long)? If only for a short period (ie 2-3 years), they might be able to issue a temporary licence, providing you can prove your intention to leave after then.

Did you arrive in Darwin with three dogs or aquire the third there? They can issue permits for more than two dogs if you are an ADF/ government family who was posted there and arrived in locality with more than two dogs.

How did you end up with the 3rd dog? Having a dog willed to you is usually considered exceptional.

How old are all three? If one is aged (usually applies to dogs over 10 years old), they might issue a temporary permit with the proviso that it only applies to the current three dogs and will not be granted for an additional dog when one passes away.

PM the details if you'd prefer not to dsclose here. I'm not a legal person, just someone who has had experience dealing with the council re dog laws.

[GeckoTree]

Well i know plenty who register at other addresses, and the dogs 'Visit", honestly honesty bis just a tick sheet, the councils know it, but they just want the tick sheet to save the sheet. IYKNWIM.

[Remarkabull]

Which council are you in?

I would have a close read of the bylaws re granting the keeping of more than two dogs. Somewhere in there it should spell out exactly what circumstances are considered as 'exceptional'. If it doesn't, ask them to clarify in writing. That will give you the basis on what you will need to meet their requirements so that they can grant you the licence.

I'm guessing that a legalese person would need to know more about your situation:

Do you live there permanently or are you just there for work (if so, for how long)? If only for a short period (ie 2-3 years), they might be able to issue a temporary licence, providing you can prove your intention to leave after then.

Did you arrive in Darwin with three dogs or aquire the third there? They can issue permits for more than two dogs if you are an ADF/ government family who was posted there and arrived in locality with more than two dogs.

How did you end up with the 3rd dog? Having a dog willed to you is usually considered exceptional.

How old are all three? If one is aged (usually applies to dogs over 10 years old), they might issue a temporary permit with the proviso that it only applies to the current three dogs and will not be granted for an additional dog when one passes away.

PM the details if you'd prefer not to dsclose here. I'm not a legal person, just someone who has had experience dealing with the council re dog laws.

We had all of these dogs when we arrived here. My OH is in ADF and he was posted here but the ranger has told us that that is not a good enough reason for us to be able to keep all 3 dogs.

Dogs are 4, 2 and 1 years old. My bitch is desexed, the 2 year old Malt x Shih Tzu is getting desexed next week. We are not sure yet if we will desex the Dobe (no reason to, we don't have any entire bitches, nor will he have access to one) but if that would make a difference in the application then we would have him done too.

ETA We are in Palmerston City Council area

Edited April 28, 2011 by dobesrock

[Remarkabull]

Well i know plenty who register at other addresses, and the dogs 'Visit", honestly honesty bis just a tick sheet, the councils know it, but they just want the tick sheet to save the sheet. IYKNWIM.

I mentioned this to my OH and we will do this if the application gets rejected. I have a friend who is staying with us ATM while she is looking for a rental, when she moves I can register one of my dogs at her address as she doesn't have any dogs.

[coogie]

Dobesrock,

did the ranger say why it would not be approved? - friends of mine lived in NT and had no problems getting a permit. The council just checked the property, checked if they had had any previous complaints etc. I think they may speak to any neighbours nearby - but they did not have to cite any "exceptional" circumstances. They just wanted 3 dogs. I had a quick glance at Darwin Council website and it doesn't appear to say you need to show your circumstances are exceptional? Are the council good at keeping their site updated? Maybe you could call the council to get more information around what exactly are the criteria before you put in the application so you can check off any potential issues before you pay the fees? Our particular council has regulations pertaining to block size and number of dogs,but I know things differ from area to area .As to appeals and court I think you would have to look at the grounds of refusal(if it is refused) before you could make a decision. If it is refused on the grounds of neighbours complaining or the size of your block (things that will be hard/impossible to change) I think you would have an expensive and uphill battle - just my opinion,I'm sure there are DOLers with more legal knowledge than I have that could help with that side of things.

I hope you are all feeling a bit better and that this gets approved for you.

[Dxenion]

My OH is in ADF and he was posted here but the ranger has told us that that is not a good enough reason for us to be able to keep all 3 dogs.

Dogs are 4, 2 and 1 years old. My bitch is desexed, the 2 year old Malt x Shih Tzu is getting desexed next week. We are not sure yet if we will desex the Dobe (no reason to, we don't have any entire bitches, nor will he have access to one) but if that would make a difference in the application then we would have him done too.

ETA We are in Palmerston City Council area

I'm waiting for a call back from a few people about this. I'll post any updates here.

[Remarkabull]

Dobesrock,

did the ranger say why it would not be approved? - friends of mine lived in NT and had no problems getting a permit. The council just checked the property, checked if they had had any previous complaints etc. I think they may speak to any neighbours nearby - but they did not have to cite any "exceptional" circumstances. They just wanted 3 dogs. I had a quick glance at Darwin Council website and it doesn't appear to say you need to show your circumstances are exceptional? Are the council good at keeping their site updated? Maybe you could call the council to get more information around what exactly are the criteria before you put in the application so you can check off any potential issues before you pay the fees? Our particular council has regulations pertaining to block size and number of dogs,but I know things differ from area to area .As to appeals and court I think you would have to look at the grounds of refusal(if it is refused) before you could make a decision. If it is refused on the grounds of neighbours complaining or the size of your block (things that will be hard/impossible to change) I think you would have an expensive and uphill battle - just my opinion,I'm sure there are DOLers with more legal knowledge than I have that could help with that side of things.

I hope you are all feeling a bit better and that this gets approved for you.

I went to the council chambers today and spoke with the manager in this department. He said that our circumstances would not be considered exceptional as there a large number of defence families moving to the area every year and that they are rejecting the majority of these claims now as a way to 'discourage people from dog ownership as Palmerston has an epidemic of dogs'.

Palmerston council and Darwin Council are separate and have different by laws re dog ownership.

[lappiemum]

Dobesrock,

did the ranger say why it would not be approved? - friends of mine lived in NT and had no problems getting a permit. The council just checked the property, checked if they had had any previous complaints etc. I think they may speak to any neighbours nearby - but they did not have to cite any "exceptional" circumstances. They just wanted 3 dogs. I had a quick glance at Darwin Council website and it doesn't appear to say you need to show your circumstances are exceptional? Are the council good at keeping their site updated? Maybe you could call the council to get more information around what exactly are the criteria before you put in the application so you can check off any potential issues before you pay the fees? Our particular council has regulations pertaining to block size and number of dogs,but I know things differ from area to area .As to appeals and court I think you would have to look at the grounds of refusal(if it is refused) before you could make a decision. If it is refused on the grounds of neighbours complaining or the size of your block (things that will be hard/impossible to change) I think you would have an expensive and uphill battle - just my opinion,I'm sure there are DOLers with more legal knowledge than I have that could help with that side of things.

I hope you are all feeling a bit better and that this gets approved for you.

I went to the council chambers today and spoke with the manager in this department. He said that our circumstances would not be considered exceptional as there a large number of defence families moving to the area every year and that they are rejecting the majority of these claims now as a way to 'discourage people from dog ownership as Palmerston has an epidemic of dogs'.

Palmerston council and Darwin Council are separate and have different by laws re dog ownership.

Sheesh - what an unhelpful attitude. Obviously not a dog friendly council (remind me not to move there!). I assume that you are in defence housing and that moving is not an option? If so, I think the visiting pooch plan is the best way to go.

[poodlefan]

The main thing to do is to get the council to properly justify its decision.

If your application is rejected, ask for it to be reconsidered.

If that is rejected, ask for the full reasons for the rejection. If a single mention of anything other than your particular circumstances is made, then appeal the decision.

If the word "ADF" rates a mention, write to the Mayor, your local minister and the Minister for Defence Personnel (or whatever that position is now called) and complain about unfair treatment.

Work the system. Keep it up for long enough and you'll probably be posted out before a final decision is made.

Squeaky wheels get oiled. Be a big enough pain in the arse and I'll bet you get it approved. :D

While these matters are fresh in your mind, make notes of the conversations you had with the ranger and council - they could come in handy down the track.

If all else fails, school your entire family in how to look miserable on cue, groom your dogs for photos and phone the media.

If THAT doesn't work, request a transfer of housing into the Darwin Council area on the basis that its a death sentence for your dog if you don't get one.

Edited April 28, 2011 by poodlefan

[coogie]

Crazy when it is 21 klms up the road! Was the manager willing to say what circumstances they do consider exceptional? I really hope you find a way to sort it out,$140.00 seems quite high for a non refundable admin fee as well,particularly if they are saying they are just rejecting most claims.

Hopefully Dxenion will have some more positive advice- fingers and paws crossed for you here.

[Paptacular!]

I've had to apply for a 3 dog licence twice in the Darwin Council, there had never been an issue either time.

I like the idea of reconsidering and hassling them, also it shouldn't be too difficult to get a move to a suburb under DCC.

Good luck :D

[Remarkabull]

Thank you all for your replies. Dxenion has pm'd me some info and is being a wonderful help. After the events of the last week I am fairly useless ATM and can't think straight.

PF - We will definitely make plenty of noise about this, I am NOT losing another dog any time soon and we will do everything we can to get this approved.

OH has already mentioned the media thing and I'm sure once he gets home this afternoon he will get straight onto dealing with this problem.

It infuriates me that I am trying to do the right thing and yet I see dogs every day running loose on the roads, crapping everywhere and generally causing problems and yet I'm the one who is given a hard time by those in power. My dogs are never out of the yard without being on a lead, we clean up after them and they are not serial barkers.

In fact while I was typing this reply, my Dobe went nuts at the back fence and when I got up to look there was a kelpie looking dog at the fence with no lead or owner to be seen! :D

[Sheridan]

What is 'an epidemic of dogs'?

[oakway]

Get a lawyer or the Defence Force to act on your behalf.

[Paptacular!]

What is 'an epidemic of dogs'?

That particular council area often has dogs running loose. Not quite in pack situations as far as I'm aware. That's the next council area over, who do not have a registration process for dogs! (Litchfield)

[B-Q]

We got approved for 4 dogs when we lived in Katherine, that was a house block in town.

When we applied for our 3rd dog here we got rejected, the letter said to remove the 3rd dog from the premises within a week. Obvisouly we freaked, called the council and asked them what we could do. Turns out the letter was written terribly and we were meant to have the option to write a letter of appeal. We wrote one telling them about our life with our dogs, the training we did with them etc etc etc.

Our dogs wern't registered here till we got caught, simply because we arrived here and then realised the councils rule was "one dog - 2 with a licence" considering we had 4 with us we just shut our mouths and tried to keep quiet. Its a total relief to have it sorted now.

Edited April 28, 2011 by B-Q

[Remarkabull]

Get a lawyer or the Defence Force to act on your behalf.

On to it already

As far a an 'epidemic' goes apparently Palmerston has more dogs than any other Australian city in comparison to it's population. It was just the wording that the people at the council used while I was talking to them. There are a lot of people who walk their dogs off lead around here and seem very 'relaxed' about cleaning up after them. I understand that it is a problem, but it's not a problem that I contribute to and me having 3 dogs in no way impacts negatively on this area or this council.