4 Pitbulls Maul Us Woman To Death

[Zhou Xuanyao]

If attitude to own the dog is up your bum on the law, then perhaps is up your bum on proper handling of the dog too?

Drawing another long bow, Joe.

Is demonstrating the Pitbull people most are outlaw personality anyway so why should community care on their opinion of the breed or community to supporting them for unbanning is what I see happening?

Because there is compelling evidence to suggest that BSL is a failure and efforts to reduce dog attacks would be better focussed elsewhere; reducing dog attacks is the aim, after all.

[TessiesTracey]

The reason the breed is illegal is because the breed was seen as aggressive and uncontrollable (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am making assumptions here) and that, I don't think is because of the breed, but because of the owners. Therefore the breed was made illegal.

They are banned/restricted because Australia Is a land of sheep, and they followed suit with the British

I ask sensible question please, if the breed is not a problem and is good placid and reliable for nice pet, why is so many countries ban the breed becuase how can so many get it wrong in their opinion then saying the Pitbull is dangerous dog if it is really beautiful dog that could never hurting a fly? I dont seeing any action to banning the poodle or the Labrador why is this?

Joe

And the British are in the process of trying to get shot of laws such as the Dangerous Dogs Act.

[geo]

Joe;

Many countries are trying to get away from BSL because breed bans don't work.

Lo Pan; making sense as usual, many people who own pitbulls are totally law abiding citizens but their love for the breed outweighs their conscience on BSL laws, so they own one and try their best to do the right thing by the dog.

[JoeK]

Joe;

Many countries are trying to get away from BSL because breed bans don't work.

Lo Pan; making sense as usual, many people who own pitbulls are totally law abiding citizens but their love for the breed outweighs their conscience on BSL laws, so they own one and try their best to do the right thing by the dog.

I cant seeing too many votes for the legislating people to drop dangerous dog acts. I would say most people would be against this, but we see what happens, yes?

I have a love for getting money for doing nothing, maybe I rob a bank and using love as excuse? I am joking of course!

Joe

[moosmum]

I was referring to the likes of the guy and all like him that don't have any control over their dogs, please don't twist my words....

Just because someone has a large dog doesn't make them an idiot.

I never said you called all big dog owners idiots, just that all sizes and breeds of dogs can have idiot owners.

We need to concentrate on the problem and instead of banning breeds which just makes them more attractive to the people who want tough, illegal dogs deal with the owners. Make it compulsory to do obedience courses, make it so instead of registration, dog owners have to go through a course and get a license.

Regulate owners not dogs.

And then if your dog attacks a human or another animal unprovoked you get charged and your license suspended until further notice. We need to be hard with the people who allow their dogs to do these things.

Sorry,but I disagree.

You are asking ALL dog owners to pay the price for those who are irresponsible and instead of BSL,we end up with all dogs ownership being restricted.

and the "black market" extending to all dogs.

Education in dog ownership and responsibilities is badly needed now.This is partly because dog and their care are already marginalised here in Aus. Peoples experiences with dogs is limited.Further restrictions on ownership would only be a self perpetuating cycle.

The current laws should be enough if they were enforced properly.If thats not working,why would more legislation work.

So can you tell me why RB owners are the only ones who have to pay the price for Irresponsible owners? bare In mind Irresponsible owners come attached with many 'other' dog breeds not affected by BSL

Another case of I really don't care about RB owners as I don't own one and It doesn't concern me!

Exactly. I am sick and tired of owners of other breeds brushing the issue off or coming up with answers like "why should I have to....." (mind you I know there are many people here who have nothing to do with RB breeds who are very against BSL, so please don't take offence if you are one of them )

It is all well and dandy when it isn't affecting you or your dogs right.

I don't see where you get that I am a BSL supporter,but if every one who wanted a dog had learned something of their origins and breed development as a a co-dependent of man,studied basic breeding concepts,needs,specific breed characteristics and our responsibilities and the law just maybe BSL would not be needed and future breeds won't need to suffer the same fate.

If dogs are to continue to have a place in society,society in turn needs to recognise their place and make room for dogs to keep evolving along side us.Education and peer pressure is the only way that will happen.

Legislation will continue to marginalise and reduce contact preventing oportunities for people to learn.A manual is not going to make every one who has one an instant expert,but that will be the claim while even more knowledge is lost.

The changes I see in dogs and dog ownership in the last 40 years is pretty disturbing.

[jaybeece]

It's true that some breeds are more likely to bite people than others. It's also true that some breeds can do far more damage than others when they bite.

It's unfair to single the pitbull out, though. Many other breeds have been used for guarding or protection work or fighting in the past, and could do a great deal of damage if they chose. The pitbull isn't alone in that regard. My malinois, for example, could do a great deal of damage to someone if she wanted to do so, and if mismanaged she'd be at least as likely to bite someone as the average mismanaged pitbull is. Yet she is (luckily) not banned.

Perhaps one day we will all only be allowed to own dogs under 10kg, since anything larger will be deemed too dangerous. I really hope not.

For what it's worth, many of the bull breeds I've met have been dog aggressive, some of the most dog aggressive dogs I have met have been bull breeds. However, only a few of them have been human aggressive, and in fact some of the most human-stable dogs I have ever met have been bull breeds.

Agreed! Many dogs have the ability to seriously maim or kill a human being, why aren't the anti-pit bull people in this thread calling for them to be banned too?

Poodiful1 some of your posts remind me of all the people who cross the road when they see my (non pit bull) dog coming, especially the lady the other day who picked her dog up and started looking terrified. Her dog made more of a fuss than mine did. And yet I'm sure something he did further cemented in her mind the FACT that large dogs are a dangerous to her precious pooch.

I think you're forgetting that ALL dogs can do harm. ALL dogs have the capacity for aggression. I've met an aggressive standard poodle before, watching it writhe around on the end of it's lead screaming and barking with it's pom poms flailing is burned into my memory, you couldn't pay me to go near a dog like that. It was nuts and at that size absolutely able to kill a human being.

I've also met horrifyingly aggressive labs and golden retrievers. Want to know which dogs attack posties? Golden retrievers and small fluffies, in 2 1/2 years as a postie they were the only dogs who attacked me. The dogs that were friendly? Staffies well ahead, saint bernards, rotties, some labs and great danes. All dogs that could easily kill a human being, but I was far more wary of the small fluffies and that did include toy poodles (as well as standard).

Because Joe part of the attraction for macho idiot owners is the fact that these dogs are illegal. Also the councils and government will be able to better regulate if the dogs are legal and no longer being sold on "the black market".

Plus if you ban dogs the dickhead owners are still around and still looking for testicles on a lead. They'll just get a different dog, ruin the reputation of another breed, rinse and repeat.

Banning breeds gets us nowhere when those responsible for ruining individual dogs are still able to own dogs.

[dogbesotted]

Joe;

Many countries are trying to get away from BSL because breed bans don't work.

Lo Pan; making sense as usual, many people who own pitbulls are totally law abiding citizens but their love for the breed outweighs their conscience on BSL laws, so they own one and try their best to do the right thing by the dog.

I live in sunny qld. Had jake before the legislation came in in qld. Councils had the "choice" of banning or imposing draconian requirements to gain a permit to keep such a dog.. my council chose not to ban.. so some trusting folks registered their pitbulls, went the due process and 6 months later council changed their minds.. and guess what..council then demanded that the owners either move from the shire or euthanise their dogs. Keep in mind here it was illegal to sell or give away or rehome the dog.

I had a bad feeling initially and did not register my boy ( i am normally a law abiding citizen) thank God i didnt. Jake passed away 5 years later.. but we spent those five years in fear that someone would dob us in. And for us moving was not a financial option.

I am totally opposed to breed bans,

Helen

[Scarlett Dog]

Wow- it took quite a while to read all the responses.

The poor lady who lost her life, what a terrible thing to happen. Must have been terrible to witness.

As for the BSL discussion, I'm not a fan. I think regardless of breed the amount of effort an owner puts in with a dog is a huge factor in here. I own a 'bull breed' and would be happy to have to be licensed. I think in general, dog ownership isn't taken seriously. Dogs getting into the hands of people who don't understand their responsibility to their dog and to the general public as well as people's attitude to dog ownership is abysmal.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Can't be bothered responding to everything.

It has already been said but Joe if everyone stopped owning Pitbulls they would dissappear and guess what the idiots would choose a different tough breed lets say Dobermans, next thing

You know they are in the news mauling animals and people, then they are made a restricted breed, we stop owning them, they all dissappear. ...which breed next??? How many breeds would you like to wipe of the planet before you will understand that the dogs are not the problem the owners are!!! Dobermans and German Shepherds have both been restricted breeds in the past because they like the pitbull is now were perceived as vicious man killers who would snap at any time, BSL stands for bull shit legislation and it does NOT work. Already it is dying in America one county at a time.

Owning dogs should be a privledge not a right. People would appreciate it more then.

[Dogsrawesome]

Can't be bothered responding to everything.

It has already been said but Joe if everyone stopped owning Pitbulls they would dissappear and guess what the idiots would choose a different tough breed lets say Dobermans, next thing

You know they are in the news mauling animals and people, then they are made a restricted breed, we stop owning them, they all dissappear. ...which breed next??? How many breeds would you like to wipe of the planet before you will understand that the dogs are not the problem the owners are!!! Dobermans and German Shepherds have both been restricted breeds in the past because they like the pitbull is now were perceived as vicious man killers who would snap at any time, BSL stands for bull shit legislation and it does NOT work. Already it is dying in America one county at a time.

Owning dogs should be a privledge not a right. People would appreciate it more then.

Well said i agree with this 100%

[doit4thedogz]

The Apbt is a working dog and is still being actively 'tested' and bred for gameness in this country. People need to understand that they are a working breed and they arent for everyone and should be kept only be knowledgeable people because they are a dog with special needs. They are not for the average family, they are not a 'kids' dog, and they are not a off-lead follow me around the trailer park bogan dog. The APBT is a dog that has been developed for fighting and over the generations have developed qualities like gameness, aggression, high-pain tolerance, athleticism....The qualities that have been bred into the dogs over the years make it a highly capable fighting breed and also not suitable for the average family.

The point is the Breed was and is a 'fighting' breed and thus will always attract the wrong crowd. SO if you can't deal with the negative stigma attached to the breed. Why not just get another breed?

[doit4thedogz]

People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily.

People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite.

Joe

well said

actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant.,

try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died....

No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners,

http://www.workingpitbull.com/

Helen

In memory of Jake

I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe, compared with German Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler they are hard dog to switch off the bite and too foggy in the head in active aggression is the reason why professional dont using these dogs. They have very high thresholding on the pain much higher than Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler,is not Pitbull are bad dog, they having some very nice working quality but can be very dangerous dog in the wrong hands. Becuase someone had nice Pitbull not hurting a fly, I have Shepherd Dogs like this too and ones with the right combination in the dominant genes want to kill everyone serious in the social aggression can happen in this breeds more than others breeds is very unlikely.

Is time the Pitbull people taking the color from their spectical and looking through the clear glass in my opinion and who letting the team down is idiots who breed aggression in the dogs and sell them to anyone is the problem. If the dogs breeding in social agression was sold to people handling these dog properly like happenning with the Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler most of this Pitbull problems disapperaing. Is the people dealing in this dogs is the problem where it begins which needing some control. Same applying to breeding cross genetics of bit Mastiff, bit of Pitbull and bit of Rottweiler is stupid breeding on my opinion, mix all these breeds up with potential for aggressive traits is going to come out aggressive on some dogs for sure. Expert breeders on the working dogs get it wrong on the balance of nerve and aggression, this people knowing what they do and people doing a backyard presentation to stick on the Gumtree add for cheap Bull breeding of cross genes what temperament quality comes from this I am asking?

Breed the proper Pitbull is no worries and sell them to people on the credential to own them is ok, but this bit of Mastiff and bit of Staffy and bit of Pitbull breedings on the backyard needing to get rid of this and people wanting a dog buy a proper one with the stable in the nerve and temperament for community adaption for the pet.

Sure I agree is owners fault this dogs get out and kill the lady on the street, but the point is this poor lady go for a walk and she dont come home becuase 4 dogs killing her in attack. Is very high in active aggression for dogs to do this regardless of the breed is aggression level that does the killing not becuase the dog escaping the yard. If she having 4 Silky Terrier run from the yard the likelihood she die is minimal is what the breed argument comes about. Deed is too late for the punishment to help this lady when she dead.

Joe

The Apbt does have some good working qualities. But some of the qualities bred into the breed for generations make them unsuitable for certain roles and the average family. for example the breed is not the best for pig hunting because they are hard to get off and control. They try to fight and kill the pig. Once they see the pig they go off and that's it. They're off. The same goes for Personal protection dogs, the apbt is not the best breed because they are harder to call off and control.

Point is the breed is a working dog and should be owned by people who know the breed or want to work it. People who know how to train it, control it and contain it. But when people want a tough dog they go straight for the Apbt becuase of it's reputation as a fighting dog and stuff they see on tv.

SO how is ablolishing BSL goiing to help the breed. By putting more apbts on the street and into the public again?

[doit4thedogz]

Joe, just because someone's desire to own a Pitbull outweighs their desire to avoid any associated consequences, doesn't mean they are happy about any associated consequences, only that they choose to own a Pitbull despite them. This does not imply that anyone should cop a knock on the door on the chin, far from it.

edit - superfluous

If you choose to won the breed, you shouldnt complain about the negative stigma attached to it and the government attention it gets. Same goes for if you own a highly modified car. You choose to drive it on the road, you shoulnt complain about being defected all the time.

[doit4thedogz]

Can't be bothered responding to everything.

It has already been said but Joe if everyone stopped owning Pitbulls they would dissappear and guess what the idiots would choose a different tough breed lets say Dobermans, next thing

You know they are in the news mauling animals and people, then they are made a restricted breed, we stop owning them, they all dissappear. ...which breed next??? How many breeds would you like to wipe of the planet before you will understand that the dogs are not the problem the owners are!!! Dobermans and German Shepherds have both been restricted breeds in the past because they like the pitbull is now were perceived as vicious man killers who would snap at any time, BSL stands for bull shit legislation and it does NOT work. Already it is dying in America one county at a time.

Owning dogs should be a privledge not a right. People would appreciate it more then.

There will always be dog breeds bred for aggression, dog fighting etc. If you choose to buy into that breed. Then you should accept the bad press that comes with it.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Doit4thedogs you seriously just posted 4 times the exact same thing.

We have a right to fight for the name of the breed we love. Just like everyone has the right to fight for the things they love.

GSD, Dobermans and Rotties have been banned in the past and called all sorts of horrible things and yet after many years all of those breeds are now accepted and loved by many.

The Apbt is a working dog and is still being actively 'tested' and bred for gameness in this country.

APBT's are not being bred for anything in this country because it is illegal to import them so there are no fresh lines coming in. I doubt you will find a real purebred APBT in this country.

They are not for the average family, they are not a 'kids' dog, and they are not a off-lead follow me around the trailer park bogan dog.

Funny lots of "average" families in America own these dogs just fine. FYI they were known as the Nanny dog for a very long time in the US, they got that name for a reason.

And that is all I can really be bothered saying. Everything has been said so please refer back to mine and others previous posts.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[doit4thedogz]

Doit4thedogs you seriously just posted 4 times the exact same thing.

We have a right to fight for the name of the breed we love. Just like everyone has the right to fight for the things they love.

GSD, Dobermans and Rotties have been banned in the past and called all sorts of horrible things and yet after many years all of those breeds are now accepted and loved by many.

The Apbt is a working dog and is still being actively 'tested' and bred for gameness in this country.

APBT's are not being bred for anything in this country because it is illegal to import them so there are no fresh lines coming in. I doubt you will find a real purebred APBT in this country.

They are not for the average family, they are not a 'kids' dog, and they are not a off-lead follow me around the trailer park bogan dog.

Funny lots of "average" families in America own these dogs just fine. FYI they were known as the Nanny dog for a very long time in the US, they got that name for a reason.

And that is all I can really be bothered saying. Everything has been said so please refer back to mine and others previous posts.

Now Joe is right. SOme of you do have your heads in the clouds.

So how do you plan to get the Apbt loved and accepted by society? When the world over it has a long running reputation?

And statements like this:

- Not being bred for anything.

- No fresh lines

- No real APBTS

What are these statements based on? The fanatasy of an ideal world? Take off them rosey red glasses. These statements would also be offensive to the Apbt community in Australia especially those who've been into the breed for decades.

Alot of average families in the USA own the breed? well look at the state of the breed in the USA, banned in how many states. The breeding also coming in how many shapes, sizes and forms. Look at the situation in Australia, don't compare us to the USA. there are a whole of differences between the australian and american people and australian and american pitbulls. Also your nanny dog statement is just plain ignorant. Just because a dog may be 'good' around children it doesnt mean it's suitable as a children's dog. It's ideas like these that add to the problem. Treating the Apbt like an average dog, something it is not. Peolpe who know the breed know it is not your average dog and shouldn't be treated that way.

[WoofnHoof]

I don't think the 'deed not breed' thing is 100% effective because people know that breeds are different, people know that some traits are more potentially dangerous than others whether it's size, jaw strength, temperamental differences or difficulty of management. All breeds are not the same everyone knows that, trying to convince them any different is pointless, instead education should focus on the individual dog with the breed traits acknowledge and respected and incorporated into the management strategy.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

If you choose to won the breed, you shouldnt complain about the negative stigma attached to it and the government attention it gets. Same goes for if you own a highly modified car. You choose to drive it on the road, you shoulnt complain about being defected all the time.

Why not ?

[Keira&Phoenix]

Doit4thedogs you seriously just posted 4 times the exact same thing.

We have a right to fight for the name of the breed we love. Just like everyone has the right to fight for the things they love.

GSD, Dobermans and Rotties have been banned in the past and called all sorts of horrible things and yet after many years all of those breeds are now accepted and loved by many.

The Apbt is a working dog and is still being actively 'tested' and bred for gameness in this country.

APBT's are not being bred for anything in this country because it is illegal to import them so there are no fresh lines coming in. I doubt you will find a real purebred APBT in this country.

They are not for the average family, they are not a 'kids' dog, and they are not a off-lead follow me around the trailer park bogan dog.

Funny lots of "average" families in America own these dogs just fine. FYI they were known as the Nanny dog for a very long time in the US, they got that name for a reason.

And that is all I can really be bothered saying. Everything has been said so please refer back to mine and others previous posts.

Now Joe is right. SOme of you do have your heads in the clouds.

So how do you plan to get the Apbt loved and accepted by society? When the world over it has a long running reputation?

And statements like this:

- Not being bred for anything.

- No fresh lines

- No real APBTS

What are these statements based on? The fanatasy of an ideal world? Take off them rosey red glasses. These statements would also be offensive to the Apbt community in Australia especially those who've been into the breed for decades.

Alot of average families in the USA own the breed? well look at the state of the breed in the USA, banned in how many states. The breeding also coming in how many shapes, sizes and forms. Look at the situation in Australia, don't compare us to the USA. there are a whole of differences between the australian and american people and australian and american pitbulls. Also your nanny dog statement is just plain ignorant. Just because a dog may be 'good' around children it doesnt mean it's suitable as a children's dog. It's ideas like these that add to the problem. Treating the Apbt like an average dog, something it is not. Peolpe who know the breed know it is not your average dog and shouldn't be treated that way.

LMAO seriously.

As already mentioned several breeds have previously been banned and their reputation has been terrible and yet here they stand now as much loved dogs. It may take a while but it will eventually happened like it has in the past. And we have the right to fight for that. You certainly do not have the right to tell us what we can and cannot fight for. If we choose to own the breed and fight for it's reputation then that is our prerogative and that is our right so stop telling us we should just accept it and move on.

I am sure there are still some people in Aus in the ACT and NT who breed decent dogs but with the breed so restricted and the fact you cannot import it makes it very hard to breed for anything specific because you can only work with what you have. If any APBT people are offended by what I have said let them come here and tell me themselves.

No dog in my eyes is suitable as a childs dog, children should not own dogs, sure in conjunction with a parent/adult they can help but as far as I am concerned they shouldn't own their own dog who is completely left up to them to take care of, exercise and train.

I am not treating the APBT as an average dog, I never said that, I never said just anyone should own this breed. Read back through my posts, I have already said all dog owners should have to go through certainly licensing etc before owning a dog. If we were tighter in controlling who breeds dogs then you would have responsible breeders who know their breed selling dogs to people who they think have what it takes to own that breed.

Yeah sure it is banned in many counties/states but there are a lot of counties/states in America, there are still a lot of areas who allow Pitties. There are still alot of regular families who own them. Do some research they are still a much loved breed in America by people in and out of the banned areas. BSL has already been abolished in some places due to the ineffectiveness of the legislation and due to people fighting against it.

So whether or not you approve I will continue to fight for this breed and their right to live the same as every other breed of dog on the planet and for my right to own them and love them.

[Robbi]

The Pit Bull is just an average dog, he is a loving trainable dog with a huge capacity to be a great family dog with correct socialisation and responsible ownership just like any other type or breed.

Dont demonise a breed that has enough to deal with. the myths that have been made up by the media and pro BSL lobbyists is laughable and I am suprised that so many "dog lovers" have bought into the rubbish.

The Pit Bull is tenacious and has a never give up charecter, whatever he does he is going to give it 110% ths is why people have so much success training these dogs to be therapy dogs, sniffer dogs and they excel in many dog sports when they are given the chance to shine.

Unfortunately the same loyalty and tenacity that he gives to his responsible owner he will also give to an irresponsible/cruel owner who wants to use the Pit Bull for cruel/inhumane activities. He fights to the death for a monster and it is the dog that we hate, when did we lose sympathy for the victim of abuse