Robbi Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I certainly agree that there are people that shouldn't own any dog, there are really no dangerous dogs, dogs are only what we make them. Some people would turn a Poodle agressive, you are just lucky your breed of choice doesn't appeal to the type of person that is a cruel irresponsible owner. I agree that my breed most certainly does not appeal to the types of people that want to scare others with their dogs. But I most certainly do not agree that there are no dangerous dogs, otherwise this poor lady would still be alive today, and I could kick a toy poodle from here to the gold coast if one was to threaten me. What's your solution to stop undesirables owning dangerous breeds capable of killing? It would be nice to have an answer to that question, I think maybe mandatory obedience or socialisation training classes for all dogs and their owners to a certain degree. I realise this wont happen but maybe for the sake of us all being able to own the dog breed of our choice we need to find a way to make dogs harder to be obtained by those not wanting a dog for the right reason, I hope one day we find a way to stop undesireable dog owners but until that time we must try and keep a rational view point about Pit Bulls, they are not sociopaths with hairline triggers and an inbuilt kill switch. They are dogs just like any other breed or type,they respond to love and praise and are highly trainable canines, they deserve our love, tolerence and to be honest they need our help as we must not let the actions of some people cause the extinction of a breed. Once the Pit Bull is gone, which breed will be the next one demonised, I am not a Pit Bull lover, I am a dog lover and I hope that when I judge a dog I look beyond its breed and look to the more important traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Maybe I taking one of this boys here to the police station an tell them is new defence dog because breed doesnt matter and the dog is what you making of him for the deed. Lets proving on the anti BSL section breed doesnt matter and we swapping German and Belgian Shepherd defence dog for the Silky Terrier. If he can do the job the Silky Terrier, then I join the anti BSL club and pay double membershipping fee. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 That poor woman and witness. I hope the owner is severly punished, and I do agree these dogs should be euthanased. Lack of good fencing, lack of correct socilaisation and training. End result = horrendous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppoochi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) I certainly agree that there are people that shouldn't own any dog, there are really no dangerous dogs, dogs are only what we make them. Some people would turn a Poodle agressive, you are just lucky your breed of choice doesn't appeal to the type of person that is a cruel irresponsible owner. I agree that my breed most certainly does not appeal to the types of people that want to scare others with their dogs. But I most certainly do not agree that there are no dangerous dogs, otherwise this poor lady would still be alive today, and I could kick a toy poodle from here to the gold coast if one was to threaten me. What's your solution to stop undesirables owning dangerous breeds capable of killing? It would be nice to have an answer to that question, I think maybe mandatory obedience or socialisation training classes for all dogs and their owners to a certain degree. I realise this wont happen but maybe for the sake of us all being able to own the dog breed of our choice we need to find a way to make dogs harder to be obtained by those not wanting a dog for the right reason, I hope one day we find a way to stop undesireable dog owners but until that time we must try and keep a rational view point about Pit Bulls, they are not sociopaths with hairline triggers and an inbuilt kill switch. They are dogs just like any other breed or type,they respond to love and praise and are highly trainable canines, they deserve our love, tolerence and to be honest they need our help as we must not let the actions of some people cause the extinction of a breed. Once the Pit Bull is gone, which breed will be the next one demonised, I am not a Pit Bull lover, I am a dog lover and I hope that when I judge a dog I look beyond its breed and look to the more important traits. See the problem I have with what you're saying here is that, some breeds or even cross breeds that are bred to protect, guard, and/or fight and I believe do pose a greater threat or danger to the general public and/or their animals, than others breeds do, that were bred for different reasons. People with certain mentalities are drawn to owning dogs that can intimidate and harm other people and animals. It is these people that have ruined it for everybody else. Was a bow and arrow invented to kill other people, or was it invented to serve as a tool to hunt animals to provide food, I'm more inclined to go for the latter, however that does not mean that the bow and arrow was not used to kill and maim other people. Guns were invented to kill and maim other people, yes, but not all people that have guns use them for that purpose. We have strict gun legislation in Australia, and if you compare Australia to the US, we have a much lower rate of gun fatalities per capita than they do. Why do you suppose that is? Also since the gun buyback sceme, gun homicides have decrease, see some interesting stats here I guess the government sees certain animals as a threat and danger to the general community and/or the environment, so there are tight restrictions and legislation to keep Australia as safe as possible. You know I love Daddy, he's a great ambassador of the breed, such a wise old man, RIP. Daddy was in the right hands and he was guided by the right owner to be that way. But there are still many dogs that fall into the wrong hands, so knowing the capabilities of some breeds and the likelihood of certain types to want to own potentially dangerous breeds, I guess has forced the government to have BSL. I guess they see certain breeds as a risk and a danger, and it is their responsible to keep the community safe from what can be in the wrong hands a dangerous threat. These people have given the breeds a bad rap. You know guys, I don't know what strategies you have come up with to change legislation, I guess because of the way you all belittle someone on this forum if they happen to think something contrary to what you believe to be right, it turns them away, they go from personal experience and what what they read in the news. My dogs have been threatened by all types of breeds, so therefore when I take my dogs for a walk, and run in the park, I must be very careful to look what's around, one munch and they could be gone. I am frightened of dogs that are bred to be dog aggressive, I don't know whether the owners of such dogs are good responsible owners or not, now do I? As I would find someone wearing and openly displaying a gun as a threat, I feel likewise when I see a dog that could kill one of my dogs in one bite as a threat. I'm part of the public, and this is my public opinion. You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar, what are your strategies? How do you convince someone with my mindset, to change my their mind about BSL? Edited May 8, 2011 by poodiful1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppoochi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily. People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite. Joe well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhou Xuanyao Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Poodiful, the lack of results speak for themselves, and with other social and political pressure mounting, including the RSPCA condemning BSL, the laws are going, it's just a matter of time. I think they are already unofficially all but dead in the water in some parts of Australia, and were never accepted in the first place by many councils. Whoever doesn't like it can go sing in the street, restricted breed owners and supporters are not obligated to convince anybody of anything, nor do they bear any responsibility to put forward strategies for reducing dog attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily. People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite. Joe well said actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily. People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite. Joe well said Actually that wasn't well said. Not only is it a load of rubbish, but it is also really hard to read the way it is written. FYI Joe Pitbull's are no longer bred for fighting or aggression these days (not by responsible breeders anyways only by the dogmen). Also Amstaff's are Pitbulls many Purebred APBT in the States are dual registered as American Staffordshire Terriers as well. actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake Now that was well said. Thank you Helen. Jake was absolutely gorgeous what a stunner. They certainly have a way of stealing a chunk of your heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsrawesome Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily. People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite. Joe well said Actually that wasn't well said. Not only is it a load of rubbish, but it is also really hard to read the way it is written. FYI Joe Pitbull's are no longer bred for fighting or aggression these days (not by responsible breeders anyways only by the dogmen). Also Amstaff's are Pitbulls many Purebred APBT in the States are dual registered as American Staffordshire Terriers as well. actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake Now that was well said. Thank you Helen. Jake was absolutely gorgeous what a stunner. They certainly have a way of stealing a chunk of your heart. x2 i would love a pit bull one day after i own a few different breeds though so im more dog savvy, i dont think they would be good dogs for first time owners. But i love them non the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily. People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite. Joe well said actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe, compared with German Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler they are hard dog to switch off the bite and too foggy in the head in active aggression is the reason why professional dont using these dogs. They have very high thresholding on the pain much higher than Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler,is not Pitbull are bad dog, they having some very nice working quality but can be very dangerous dog in the wrong hands. Becuase someone had nice Pitbull not hurting a fly, I have Shepherd Dogs like this too and ones with the right combination in the dominant genes want to kill everyone serious in the social aggression can happen in this breeds more than others breeds is very unlikely. Is time the Pitbull people taking the color from their spectical and looking through the clear glass in my opinion and who letting the team down is idiots who breed aggression in the dogs and sell them to anyone is the problem. If the dogs breeding in social agression was sold to people handling these dog properly like happenning with the Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler most of this Pitbull problems disapperaing. Is the people dealing in this dogs is the problem where it begins which needing some control. Same applying to breeding cross genetics of bit Mastiff, bit of Pitbull and bit of Rottweiler is stupid breeding on my opinion, mix all these breeds up with potential for aggressive traits is going to come out aggressive on some dogs for sure. Expert breeders on the working dogs get it wrong on the balance of nerve and aggression, this people knowing what they do and people doing a backyard presentation to stick on the Gumtree add for cheap Bull breeding of cross genes what temperament quality comes from this I am asking? Breed the proper Pitbull is no worries and sell them to people on the credential to own them is ok, but this bit of Mastiff and bit of Staffy and bit of Pitbull breedings on the backyard needing to get rid of this and people wanting a dog buy a proper one with the stable in the nerve and temperament for community adaption for the pet. Sure I agree is owners fault this dogs get out and kill the lady on the street, but the point is this poor lady go for a walk and she dont come home becuase 4 dogs killing her in attack. Is very high in active aggression for dogs to do this regardless of the breed is aggression level that does the killing not becuase the dog escaping the yard. If she having 4 Silky Terrier run from the yard the likelihood she die is minimal is what the breed argument comes about. Deed is too late for the punishment to help this lady when she dead. Joe Edited May 8, 2011 by JoeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe Diane Jessup actually has over 60 working titles (inc SchH and ring sports), has trained working guard and police dogs, and is an expert witness on behalf of police k9 units. I've enjoyed your latest incarnation the most, entertaining at times, but don't push your luck. The story behind this thread illustrates why we ought to take dogs seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe Diane Jessup actually has over 60 working titles (inc SchH and ring sports), has trained working guard and police dogs, and is an expert witness on behalf of police k9 units. I've enjoyed your latest incarnation the most, entertaining at times, but don't push your luck. The story behind this thread illustrates why we ought to take dogs seriously. I speak on social aggression Aidan2 and someone saying what I say is wrong dropping Diane Jessup name. I don't knowing her standing on the social aggression but I know the Dr Helmut Raiser standing and work on his principal for many years and have attending many of his seminar and training schooling. If the Diane Jessup has different value on the social aggression good luck to her, I go with how Raiser teaches working drive and denonstrate on the field for your eyes to see ok? There is plenty of theory on the dog and plenty of experts oppose each view what is right and wrong toss a coin maybe, but what I writing is on my opinion from the leash in my hand, is not rewriting of someone idea I am thinking sounds good to me. I working on aggression most of my life and reading some work from aggression experts and thinking I am knowing 20 dogs this method not working for the psycho on this dogs, so if this expert I may disagree is my right for opinion yes? Joe Edited May 8, 2011 by JoeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 but what I writing is on my opinion from the leash in my hand Excuse my skepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppoochi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 People needing to understanding that a good Pitbull needs to have the trait of social aggression in the genes and without social aggression you cannot train a fighting dog to do the job. If a good Pitbull come to the hands of people who cant handle the social aggression and train him for nice behavior then danger from this dog can be easily happening and we cant rely on people breeding the Pitbull with no social aggression in the trait otherwise is like Amstaff. So if someone breeding proper Pitbull with the proper trait and ending up on the wrong owners is why they ban the dog when anyone can get him easily. People saying the Pitbull has breeding for no human aggression is the same for German Shepherd Dog, but the trait of social aggression in the genes of both this dogs if handled and training incorrect dogs can bite acting from the trait. Social aggression is only bad trait when owners of dogs like this dont train them properly and when trait come out dominant and uncontrolled is what making dangerous dogs who will bite. Joe well said actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe, compared with German Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler they are hard dog to switch off the bite and too foggy in the head in active aggression is the reason why professional dont using these dogs. They have very high thresholding on the pain much higher than Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler,is not Pitbull are bad dog, they having some very nice working quality but can be very dangerous dog in the wrong hands. Becuase someone had nice Pitbull not hurting a fly, I have Shepherd Dogs like this too and ones with the right combination in the dominant genes want to kill everyone serious in the social aggression can happen in this breeds more than others breeds is very unlikely. Is time the Pitbull people taking the color from their spectical and looking through the clear glass in my opinion and who letting the team down is idiots who breed aggression in the dogs and sell them to anyone is the problem. If the dogs breeding in social agression was sold to people handling these dog properly like happenning with the Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler most of this Pitbull problems disapperaing. Is the people dealing in this dogs is the problem where it begins which needing some control. Same applying to breeding cross genetics of bit Mastiff, bit of Pitbull and bit of Rottweiler is stupid breeding on my opinion, mix all these breeds up with potential for aggressive traits is going to come out aggressive on some dogs for sure. Expert breeders on the working dogs get it wrong on the balance of nerve and aggression, this people knowing what they do and people doing a backyard presentation to stick on the Gumtree add for cheap Bull breeding of cross genes what temperament quality comes from this I am asking? Breed the proper Pitbull is no worries and sell them to people on the credential to own them is ok, but this bit of Mastiff and bit of Staffy and bit of Pitbull breedings on the backyard needing to get rid of this and people wanting a dog buy a proper one with the stable in the nerve and temperament for community adaption for the pet. Sure I agree is owners fault this dogs get out and kill the lady on the street, but the point is this poor lady go for a walk and she dont come home becuase 4 dogs killing her in attack. Is very high in active aggression for dogs to do this regardless of the breed is aggression level that does the killing not becuase the dog escaping the yard. If she having 4 Silky Terrier run from the yard the likelihood she die is minimal is what the breed argument comes about. Deed is too late for the punishment to help this lady when she dead. Joe again very well said, and may I ad without any arrogance, or personal insults and belittling attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) but what I writing is on my opinion from the leash in my hand Excuse my skepticism. Aidan2 sometimes practice is better than theories. You probably have theory how to train protection dog and probably what I say is different to your theory or what someone elses saying, but until you train sucessful protection dog yourself and absorbing experience to your blood our page in the book is different, yes. I have done some clicker training on my wife Labrador, never had a clicker before is not bad interesting learning something new! Edited May 8, 2011 by JoeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) Lots of disagreement here and lots of room for disagreement. I live outside a town in California . . . dominantly Hispanic, low income. Most dogs are either chihuahua-types or pit bull types, and are pets. Pedigree dogs are rare, as is systematic breeding, health testing, obedience training, etc. Temperament testing, virtually unknown. I find the town pitties are similar to staffies in Australia. Usually easy going with people. Some are pretty bad with other dogs. It's not uncommon to see them with pinch collars as the regular collar, suggesting that some people have had problems with control. I think the last severe dog out of control problem we had here was a Malinois, bought as a trained attack dog, who took to escaping and killed a few small dogs and then got pts. Mostly, the pit bull types are ok. But these street dog pit bulls are probably quite different from the registered APBTs that get exported and show up in Europe, or, for that matter, than the ones who show up in the show ring in the US. Just as the run-of-the-mill Staffie, as found in Australian backyards, is pretty different from SBT's you might find in a European show ring. I'm sure you can find people here who get to know the local dog population and pick out the most aggressive pit bull types, either for guard dogs or fighting dogs, or both. I would guess that the four dogs who killed the woman were this sort of pit bull. Sounds like someone socialised them to one another in the back yard and didn't keep good fencing. Bingo. Predatory dog pack. Btw, all 4 are now dead. One shot by the police. Three pts. I'd say the problem here was more the 'pack' without good fencing . . . and some idiot owner who likes mean dogs more than the fact that the dogs were pit bull types. I'd say it's much more likely that this would happen with bull terrier types than, say, gun dogs or herding dogs. For one thing, macho guys don't like gun dogs or herding dogs. For another, most don't readily train to fight or attack (though I've seen goldie bitch fights that would have resulted in death if someone hadn't intervened). Edited May 8, 2011 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Is very interesting to reading the posting of the anti BSL club. It must be Bull breed is only breed where the active or social aggression doesnt happen. Is the first step in the treatment for obsession is to admit it like the alcoholic and the gambler addiction. Is nice to see admission that on the very rare occassion the Bull breed may be a little bit funny on the other dogs backing up with never on the people and they attck becuase they dont socialise or they hit with sticks and put on chains and every other reason to excluding the breed from active aggression is getting stupid. Plenty breeds can have active aggression in the genes of the dog and Bull breed is one of them and the Shitzu is another except he only got the little choppers and hard to killing people. Until the anti BSL club can admit the Bull breeding is just as credible for having active aggression in the trait as the Shitzu or the German Shepherd Dog and admit the Bull breeding is high on the list of aggression traits with the best of them, this denial state of the mind is not going to ever fixing the problem, If you feeling happy to believe the reason why Bull breedings attacking is the socialise, chaining up and hitting with a stick bring out the aggression otherwise they all beautfil and never hurting a fly, keep believing that is ok by me no worries, but at least the working dog people know the type of German Shepherd Dog and the Rottweiler, Malinois etc can have the trait of active aggression and when they do they placing the dog with owners who can handle them safely and train properly, maybe taking page from the working dog book where the breeds is not targeting so much like the Pitbull, maybe helping fix the problem. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I dont think anybody is saying that some dogs of Bull Breed lines are not dog aggressive as certainly some are but a responsible owner knows to keep their dog under control in a public place and not put other dogs at risk. People wonder why anti bsl supporters can come across as overly defensive, it is because the load of rubbish the media and Bull Breed haters spout about dogs that they really know nothing about. I challenge anybody to find an ounce of hate in their heart for these very happy wiggle butted people lovers if they would only look past the prejudice held against them and spend some time with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppoochi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I dont think anybody is saying that some dogs of Bull Breed lines are not dog aggressive as certainly some are but a responsible owner knows to keep their dog under control in a public place and not put other dogs at risk. People wonder why anti bsl supporters can come across as overly defensive, it is because the load of rubbish the media and Bull Breed haters spout about dogs that they really know nothing about. I challenge anybody to find an ounce of hate in their heart for these very happy wiggle butted people lovers if they would only look past the prejudice held against them and spend some time with one. Having a different opinion to these people, and trying to get people to see it from another perspective, leads these people to insult and belittle and an I couldn't care less what you think attitude. It is a true reflection to the mentality of the kinds of people that are so intent on having breeds with bad reputations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) I dont think anybody is saying that some dogs of Bull Breed lines are not dog aggressive as certainly some are but a responsible owner knows to keep their dog under control in a public place and not put other dogs at risk. People wonder why anti bsl supporters can come across as overly defensive, it is because the load of rubbish the media and Bull Breed haters spout about dogs that they really know nothing about. I challenge anybody to find an ounce of hate in their heart for these very happy wiggle butted people lovers if they would only look past the prejudice held against them and spend some time with one. Thank you. JoeK - I am anti-BSL and a Bull Breed owner (An "Amstaff" and a BullArab type crossbreed) I am well aware of the pre-disposition that some breeds of dogs and many breeds of bullies have to aggression. I am aware of it and I take measures to make sure my now 9 months old Amstaff X has the best chance to be a well socialised ambassador for her breed. It is this acceptance and the resulting training/socilaising that is the difference between a responsible owner and an irresponsible one. You will find that the "Anti-BSL club" is pointing out that it is the irresponsible owners who take no steps to prevent their dog becoming aggressive or worse the people who also mistreat them that cause the aggressive side to become dominant and dangerous not that the dogs do not have the pre-disposition. Many times the irresponsible owners are just ignorant and do not realise the training they need to put in and then don't manage the dogs correctly.(I certinaly was when I got my first dog and she now has DA issues but you know what I acknowledge that, I acknowledge my part in her issues and I am responsible when it comes to her now ie: making sure she cannot escape and not putting her into situations that will compromise her) Look at it this way if we wipe out the pit bulls what breed is next?? How many breeds are wiped off the face of the plant before you will realise BSL is a load of tosh created to make the public feel safe and the politics look good. Maybe when the only dogs allowed are under 10kgs?? Poodiful Having a different opinion to these people, and trying to get people to see it from another perspective, leads these people to insult and belittle and an I couldn't care less what you think attitude. It is a true reflection to the mentality of the kinds of people that are so intent on having breeds with bad reputations. We will never change everyone's mind I guess. Maybe one day you will own a breed who has a bad reputation and then you will understand the frustration and sadness that it causes when people belittle and demonize not only the breed but in turn your dog. Edited May 8, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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