Tear Staining And Antibiotic Use

[persephone]

*no product name used- to hopefully avoid headaches for Troy *

Ok .. a well known product has been suggested a lot for tear stain issues. It got me interested.(I am certainly no scientist/chemist - so bear with me . I also have never had a dog with this problem, and , honestly always thought excess tears were a tear duct/eye irritation problem )

It contains an antibiotic which works like the Erythromycins ..apparently in a form which also 'binds' certain minerals causing the staining.

My query is mainly about giving an antibiotic to your dog daily - albeit in small doses . There are conflicting writings- some say it does no harm- and of course there are dogs for whom side effects are a worry . There is also concern over bacteria developing resistance - as they are continually subjected to low doses of the antibiotic ...

Can anyone explain what is happening here? Is it such a wonder product? Are there problems you've noticed?

[Staranais]

I'm intrigued. What's the antimicrobial in the product?

Giving a small dose of antibiotic daily to an animal is pretty much the text book way of going about getting a resistant population of bacteria, if you for some reason wanted to do that! The theory is that by exposing the bugs to a dose that doesn't kill all of them, the sensitive ones will be killed off & the resistant ones left. The resistant ones are therefore a higher % of the population (a problem in itself) and as a result are likely to share genetic material with each other (= development of superbugs, bacteria with several different resistance genes). Same principles as with underdosing an animal with anthelmintics, really.

How much of a problem that is depends on factors such as which antimicrobial it is, the dose you're giving, how long you give it for, & the route of administration, etc.

ETA - I think I've found it, do you mean Tylosin? I've never seen Tylosin used in smallies before, in any clinic. IMO this product isn't as bad as it could be - it's not as dangerous as giving small doses of really important drugs like gentamycin or 4th gen cephalosporins every day to the dog and fostering resistance to those drugs. Having said that, I still don't know how smart it is. We do use Tylosin quite often in production animals, plus I'd think there's a possibility that Tylosin resistance genes that develop or become widespread as a result of this product could cause cross-resistance to the macrolides we do use in smallies (e.g. erythromycin), or even to macrolides used in human medicine. I'm kind of surprised the product is available without a prescription, for that reason. Can you just buy it off the shelf at pet stores, etc?

Edited April 27, 2011 by Staranais

[oakway]

There was a reply about the drug used in this product in another thread.

It basically stated that is was harmless in the quantities used.

I tried to find the thread but couldn't.

I "think" it stated that it was not in the normal range of antibiotics used for infections.

[oakway]

I'm intrigued. What's the antimicrobial in the product?

Giving a small dose of antibiotic daily to an animal is pretty much the text book way of going about getting a resistant population of bacteria, if you for some reason wanted to do that! The theory is that by exposing the bugs to a dose that doesn't kill all of them, the sensitive ones will be killed off & the resistant ones left. The resistant ones are therefore a higher % of the population (a problem in itself) and as a result are likely to share genetic material with each other (= development of superbugs, bacteria with several different resistance genes). Same principles as with underdosing an animal with anthelmintics, really.

How much of a problem that is depends on factors such as which antimicrobial it is, the dose you're giving, how long you give it for, & the route of administration, etc.

ETA - I think I've found it, do you mean Tylosin? I've never seen Tylosin used in smallies before, in any clinic. IMO this product isn't as bad as it could be - it's not as dangerous as giving small doses of really important drugs like gentamycin or 4th gen cephalosporins every day to the dog and fostering resistance to those drugs. Having said that, I still don't know how smart it is. We do use Tylosin quite often in production animals, plus I'd think there's a possibility that Tylosin resistance genes that develop or become widespread as a result of this product could cause cross-resistance to the macrolides we do use in smallies (e.g. erythromycin), or even to macrolides used in human medicine. I'm kind of surprised the product is available without a prescription, for that reason. Can you just buy it off the shelf at pet stores, etc?

Yes, and you can buy it cheaper off e-bay

[poodlefan]

My objection to the long term use of such products stems from the fact that you're treating symptoms, not causes.

For such a product to work, there has to be a challenge to the immune system. Deal with that challenge and tear staining, unless it caused by a fault in eye shape or tear ducts, will disappear.

One holistic vet I know says that where eye staining is present, other than stress, the issue is generally found in the head and neck with teeth and gum issues being the most common. Diet is another common cause.

The creation of bacterial populations resistent to anti-biotics is a whole other factor. Don't even get me started on anti-bacterial kitchen wipes!!

Edited April 27, 2011 by poodlefan

[oakway]

I forgot to say that it is not only used for tear staining but also used to keep the whole dog white and that includes the dogs feet.

Do I use it.....no.........I can't afford it.

[persephone]

also used to keep the whole dog white and that includes the dogs feet.

Ok- that I 'think' I understand ..does it then stop the bacterial reaction that happens when feet are licked ?

[oakway]

also used to keep the whole dog white and that includes the dogs feet.

Ok- that I 'think' I understand ..does it then stop the bacterial reaction that happens when feet are licked ?

As far as I am aware......yes. I have friend who uses it for just that purpose.

All I can tell you is that the dog now has the whitest feet, that used to be licked yellow.

Edited April 27, 2011 by oakway

[Staranais]

Does the dog still lick its feet, though, or has it stopped the licking also? If the dog is still licking, I'd worry that the low dose Ab may have stopped the staining, but perhaps the feet are still itchy or sore as a result of e.g. an undiagnosed allergy? And to me, that is a more important problem than whether the feet are yellow.

[persephone]

Does the dog still lick its feet, though, or has it stopped the licking also? If the dog is still licking, I'd worry that the low dose Ab may have stopped the staining, but perhaps the feet are still itchy or sore as a result of e.g. an undiagnosed allergy? And to me, that is a more important problem than whether the feet are yellow.

snap - you got in just ahead of me . I was about to ask the same question ...

[oakway]

As far as I am aware the dogs feet get wet when first let out. (Through varies reasons)

The dog licks the feet and the saliva turns the feet yellow.

This product stops it.

I have a dogs that suffer from the same problem.