cowanbree Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I was hoping there might be someone out there that has treated a dog with a definite diagnosis of Sarcoptic mange that could tell me their reaction after treatment with the revolution. Did it make them incredibly itchy for 12-24hrs over and above what they normally were? I have been having issues with itchy dogs now for a couple of mths. Original diagnosis was sarcroptic mites but nobody has responded to treatment and my vet doesn't think the scratching is intense enough for it to be that. It really is just a bit of scratching of the head, tummy and legs at night and rubbing of the head on the carpet with the odd nibble - no sores of any kind. Done a lot of tests and they have all come back negative for anything parasitic but what else would affect all my dogs and my cats but not me? Not food as cats and dogs are fed different food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) How did the vet diagnose sarcoptes? Did they find a mite in a skin scraping? Humans can catch sarcoptes relatively easy (my flatmate bought them home last year! Don't ask. ) but they won't always, so the fact you don't have it doesn't mean that it's not sarcoptes. With selamectin (revolution) & sarcoptes, they tell us to treat the animal every 2 weeks, for 3 doses total. Just one dose doesn't always kill all of the mites. It's possible also that the mites have been cleared up but there's a secondary infection still there that's causing ongoing itching, or perhaps the mites have been cleared up but now there is just a cycle of self trauma causing itching & more self trauma? Edited April 21, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 We have never found any mites in any of the tests I have run but given they are only scratching their heads, tummy and legs it was decided it was the most likely diagnosis by another vet after my own vet said I don't know what it is. My own vet has said all along he doesn't believe it is severe enough to be sarcoptic mites. They have had at least 5 treatments of revolution and all it has done is cause intense scratching for 24hrs afterwards and then it goes back to normal. I was wondering if this was normal in an affected dog as if may indicate it is the mites? The cats have also had injections of dextamax with no decrease in scratching. My vet is now saying it definitely isn't parasitic but has no idea what else it could be. It has affected every cat and dog in my house which is quite a number ranging from 5mths to 15yrs. The only thing that has worked on 2 of the 4 dogs I tested it on is fungal meds but all the vets are saying that fungal wouldn't affect all the animals so I really am at a loss to know what avenue to pursue. I do know it isn't food as the cats are fed totally different food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Interesting. They published studies when Revolution became commercially available, which showed that those 3 treatments with the revolution was 100% effective in getting sarcoptes off dogs. I guess it's possible that selamectin resistance has developed in some mites since then, but it you've given selamectin 5 times, and all animals are still affected, I'd be worried it's not sarcoptes, especially if they haven't actually found a mite off the animals. There's another test you can do for sarcoptes - a blood serum ELISA - which is pretty good, not sure if it's commercially available in Aussie though? Haven't heard of scratching occurring after the revolution in Sarcoptes, but haven't had a huge experience with it either. Not sure what Detamax is, sorry. Having all the cats & all the dogs affected does suggest something environmental or infectious. I can only think of a few things that affects both dogs & cats and causes pruritis. Has the vet ruled out fleas, & Cheyletiella? Has the vet done any skin scrapings or fungal cultures to look for bacterial or fungal infections of the skin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Skin scrapings and cultures have all come back negative for anything parasitic or fungal. Vet has considered fleas and Cheyletiella and ruled it out. I have also treated them with Advantage just in case with zero results. Dectamax is similar to Ivermectin but apparently better. I can't use it on the shelties but I did test it on the cats. I would be interested to read these studies, do you have any links? Interesting about the blood test as it may be worth doing to totally rule it out. Given the only thing that has made any difference at all is fungal meds I think it must be fungal but my vet said fungal isn't contagious. It is very frustrating as nobody has any idea what it is but the dogs are so uncomfortable so I can't just ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I only have the one reference here: The efficacy of selamectin in the treatment of naturally acquired infestations of sarcoptes scabiei on dogs. Vet Parasitol. 2000 Aug 23;91(3-4):269-81. Shanks DJ It's not free to access, but have copied & pasted the abstract here (don't think that breaches copyright): Selamectin, a novel avermectin, was evaluated for its effect on naturally occurring infestations of Sarcoptes scabiei in 42 dogs. In two controlled and masked laboratory studies conducted in the USA and Italy, infested dogs received treatment with either selamectin (6 mg kg−1; range: 6–12 mg kg−1) or the vehicle only (negative control). Treatments were administered topically to the skin on each animal’s back at the base of the neck in front of the scapulae. Study day 0 was dened as the rst day of treatment administration. Dogs were treated on days 0 and 30, and efcacy was assessed by counting viable mites recovered from skin scrapings performed on each dog on days 14, 29 or 30, 44, and 60, and by categorising the clinical signs of canine scabies on the same days. Percentage reductions in geometric mean mite counts for selamectin, compared with vehicle, on days 14, 29 or 30, 44, and 60 were 98.1, 93.5, 100, and 100%, respectively. Analysis of variance, conrmed by Savage Scores, showed that ln(mite countsC1) values for selamectin-treated dogs were signicantly lower (P0.0391) than those for vehicle-treated dogs on all post-treatment assessment days. Clinical signs of scabies were markedly reduced in selamectin-treated dogs, compared with vehicle-treated dogs. Topical administration to the skin in a single spot of a single unit dose of selamectin, or of , was highly effective against naturally acquired infestations of S. scabiei in dogs, reducing mite counts by >93% (single dose) and 100% (two doses). © 2000 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved What a mystery. Ringworm can be contagious, between cats & dogs, as far as I know, and does causing itching, although you usually see signs of hair loss/coat issues as well as just itching. Also malasezzia yeast could be transferred between the animals (but would have thought that would come up on a skin scraping). Wonder if it's something in the environment causing everyone to itch? Anything different you've planted in the garden, or any different cleaning products or garden products or pet shampoos etc, that you started using before the itching started? Edited April 21, 2011 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Have you tried advocate? I recently had 2 X 5 mth old rescue pups diagnosed with sarcoptic mange. I used advocate (as advised by my vet). The scratching stopped almost straight away and within a week, a week and a half the hair was growing back. I also treated my Mums dog who had a terrible flea allergy on her rump. Treated her on the 26th last month and now you can barely tell she had it to begin with. Incredible. I order mine online through ebay. So much cheaper than the shops charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Sounds like they have all been in contact with something. Have you washed their bedding in something different? Washed floors with a different product? If no mites are showing up in the scrapings, it doesn't sound like it is sarcoptic mites. You might have to slowing walk through each area they use and just think if anything different has been used or changed. Good luck - poor babies must sick of being itchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Sarcoptic mange are extremely difficult to detect in skin scrapings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye2 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Are you sure it is not something atopic. My dogs come inside in the evenings and often have red chins and bellys. They lick there paws a lot. I give them an antihistamine and within 45 minutes it stops. I live on 6 acres and i am sure it is something in the grass. It is purely seasonal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Sarcoptic mange are extremely difficult to detect in skin scrapings. I know it is but we have been treating for this for 4mths with little to no improvement so I have to conclude it is something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) Are you sure it is not something atopic. My dogs come inside in the evenings and often have red chins and bellys. They lick there paws a lot. I give them an antihistamine and within 45 minutes it stops. I live on 6 acres and i am sure it is something in the grass. It is purely seasonal. It may be. My cleaner brings her dog, she is an old girl that just sits on the couch and she isn't showing any signs of being affected. I am on a couple of acres and am thinking of locking it down into sections and seeing if it helps. It is very difficult as while they are itchy it really is only at night and not all the time. Some go days without scratching and then scratch 20 times in an hour Edited April 21, 2011 by cowanbree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The dog I treated was given the Revolution monthly and washed with Malaseb every three days. I can't say I remember any noticeable reaction to either the baths or the Revolution. He scratched for ages but I'm at work so I can't check to see how long he was in quarantine for. My vet tells me this summer she has seen a lot of dogs with unexplained scratching issues this summer. I know mine and friends dogs seem to have been scratching a lot with no signs of anything that would cause it. They have all been flea treated and washed regularly and don't have any fleas. I only have one with atopic dermatitis and he drives me nuts with his scratching so I sympathise with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 I am now even more sure it isn't mites. There is no hair loss or lesions in any of the cats or dogs so that would rule out ringworm but I am wonder about the malasezzia yeast. I have googled it and it seems to indicate it only affects individual dogs with immune issues, I can't see any reference to say it is contagious. Do you have any links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think now would be a good time to write up anything you can think of .. and go see a dermatologist . With malassezia - I had a dog with it , many moons ago ..AFAIK The yeast organism is present on most dogs'/cats skin.. but multiplies with a drop in immune system function ...like lots of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ok... have you used any new pesticide/disinfectant/garden spray/plant food /dry cleaning agents/carpet cleaners/air freshener since Christmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 To my knowledge it isn't contagious but if you've tried everything else then some Malaseb washes can't really hurt. The cats won't like it much though. If they are only scratching at night it could just be mozzie or midgies biting them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 .. and go see a dermatologist .\ Would love to but we don't have any. I have been to see a general vet with an interest in skin conditions and that was a 6hour round trip for no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Would love to but we don't have any. Oh. Bugga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ok... have you used any new pesticide/disinfectant/garden spray/plant food /dry cleaning agents/carpet cleaners/air freshener since Christmas? Roundup has been used but that was mths ago. I have just this week stopped using all floor cleaners other than white vinegar and changed my washing power to one for sensitive skin so will be interested to see if that makes any difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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