7 Months And Not Where We Should Be With Toilet Training - V. Long.

[ibon]

We have a 7 month old Lappie who has had a number of health problems, and although we have made progress with toilet training we are not where we should be. I am hoping to get some tips about where to go from here. A bit of history, sorry if this is an essay:

When we first got him he had persistent diarrhea. We took him outside at regular intervals and because of the diarrhea had some paper down by the front door, but we were still having a number of accidents in other areas of the house. Food rewards were problematic because he was frequently off his food. He was diagnosed with coccidia a few weeks later, but unfortunately only when it reached an advanced stage. He spent a few nights at the vets on a drip, and rightly or wrongly I didn't persist with crate training after this (we hadn't done very well with it up to this point) because he'd had the experience of routinely toileting in one. After that we continued taking him outside at regular intervals and introduced him to using a doggy door, while trying to wean him off the paper.

Around this point his was diagnosed with puppy strangles and put on immune suppressing doses of steroids. Cue massive drinking of water and constant peeing. He also regressed at this point and started having lots more accidents. From what I could tell by doing some internet research other people seemed to also report trouble with toilet training while on steroids. Then it became apparent he was eating vast quantities of dirt outside (and throwing it up inside) and we made the decision to quarantine him inside to break the habit. We then had further regression because he was confused about not being able to use the doggy door.

As the dose of his steroids was reduced for the puppy strangles it became apparent he might have IBD. The last few months have been a cycle of trying to reduce his dosage of steroids and consequent flare ups of his IBD and diarrhea (and vomiting). So, this is where we're currently at...

- He can now get through the night without an accident as long as we take him out last thing. We have to monitor him closely when we wake up (otherwise it's 50/50 as to whether or not he'll wee on the carpet).

- We still have paper down by the door. Although he can get through the night, he always uses the paper if we leave him to go out. With him still experiencing intermittent bouts of diarrhea, and still having increased thirst from the steroids I am not sure how to get around this. As a result he is now accustomed to using the paper throughout the day and it's 50/50 as to whether he'll use it or the doggy door to go outside.

- For the past couple of months he has been restricted to a tiled area around the kitchen during the day. At night he comes into the living room with us. Generally he doesn't have any accidents in this area, but every few weeks we seem to have a regression and he will pee in the corner or behind the couch. When this happens we immediately take him outside and praise him when he finishes there, the stains are treated with urine off.

- He is blocked out of another carpeted living area during the day. Whenever we try to give him access during the day he pees in the corner of the room. I have treated this area with urine off but I'm worried he's become habituated to going to the toilet there.

Anyway, I am well aware we have made lots of mistakes along the way. I feel like all our attention has been on his health (and still is) to the detriment of other issues like this. If anyone has any advice on where to go from here with his toilet training I would really appreciate it.

[Dogsfevr]

Go back to basics & take the paper away.

At present you are confusing the pup in what you want,you want him to go but the paper is there if he prefer especially when your home.

If the paper is a method you wish to use put it outside as it will have some familiarity to the pup .

Depending on the doggy door many dogs dont like the door flap as its either to heavy or solid & blocks there view of outside,

We havea plastic strip on ours & the pups use it from 6 weeks as they can see the other side .

[ibon]

Thanks for your reply showdog. I know we need to take the paper away but what should we do when we're out (we leave him inside)? The other day I had been out for a few hours and when I came home he'd had explosive bloody diarrhea, which he'd done on the paper. Situations like these are making me confused about what to do. Whereas a normal dog would be fine for a few hours sometimes he's not able to cope.

Go back to basics & take the paper away.

At present you are confusing the pup in what you want,you want him to go but the paper is there if he prefer especially when your home.

If the paper is a method you wish to use put it outside as it will have some familiarity to the pup .

Depending on the doggy door many dogs dont like the door flap as its either to heavy or solid & blocks there view of outside,

We havea plastic strip on ours & the pups use it from 6 weeks as they can see the other side .

[Bjelkier]

Thanks for your reply showdog. I know we need to take the paper away but what should we do when we're out (we leave him inside)? The other day I had been out for a few hours and when I came home he'd had explosive bloody diarrhea, which he'd done on the paper. Situations like these are making me confused about what to do. Whereas a normal dog would be fine for a few hours sometimes he's not able to cope.

Go back to basics & take the paper away.

At present you are confusing the pup in what you want,you want him to go but the paper is there if he prefer especially when your home.

If the paper is a method you wish to use put it outside as it will have some familiarity to the pup .

Depending on the doggy door many dogs dont like the door flap as its either to heavy or solid & blocks there view of outside,

We havea plastic strip on ours & the pups use it from 6 weeks as they can see the other side .

Why can't you leave him outside?

[poodlefan]

Get a dog door!

[ibon]

We have a dog door but at the moment don't leave him outside if we're out because of some issues with barking.

[aussielover]

oh poor thing with so many health problems early on.

I am confused though- does he have access outside at night?

If he does not, it is something you should seriously consider. I can now sleep in knowing my puppy will take herself out if she needs to toilet, where as before I was getting up at 6am every morning to let her out because I was paranoid she would need to toilet!

If he has outdoor access but is still going inside, you need to go back to basics-

taking him out every 30 mins

rewarding for toileting in the right spot- this doesn't have to be food, it can be a game of tug, playing with a toy/ball, hugs/pats etc, basically whatever he finds most rewarding.

Have his constant GIT problems been diagnosed yet? if it is IBD steroids/ immunosuppessive drugs and a strict diet actually can make it quite manageable.

I think it is vital to get the GIT signs under control as it is obviously making toilet training a lot harder for you.

[Dogsfevr]

I can appreciate the barking aspect but i think you need to add to the equation the added stress of a dog that knows its wrong to toilet inside & gets stressed.This can also increase the incidence of the runs .

I think you need to start letting pup be more off a dog with outside access before winter hits & allow him to have some normality

Why is the pup barking ??

Does pup go for walks??

[ibon]

Thanks for responses. He gets lots of exercise, a long walk in the morning plus active play throughout the day. The barking issue is not due to a lack of exercise or stimulation (he also gets kongs throughout the day), more to do with steroids. GIT flare-ups due to trying to step down his dosage of preds. Night time access hasn't proven to be a success, we often have to get up in the middle of the night to pull him inside because he's barking. In any case we're back at the beginning with the steroids, he's back on a v. high dose. Doing the best we can but not an ideal time for a renewed effort with toilet training.

[Zug Zug]

Yep I agree - it's a lot of work but it will need to be back to basics.

Remove the paper, but as someone else said, put the paper outside and have it as a trigger to remind the dog to pee where you want him to pee.

You will need to get up and take your dog outside quite often I would think. No fun, but such is life.

In terms of the dog being inside or outside, I would say you need him to be outside when you are not there to supervise him. It sounds like barking is likely to be a problem, and that is a real shame. But you can't leave him inside to wee everywhere - he is continually teaching himself to toilet inside and the situation just won't improve for you.

So if it were me, it would be:

- dog outside whenever you can't supervise closely

- dog inside and WITH YOU (maybe on a leash hooked to your belt if need be) when you can supervise closely (try and prompt the dog to pee before coming inside - so it is an empty dog that comes inside with you)

- take the dog outside for a pee every half an hour to an hour during the day

- take the dog outside for a pee just before you go to bed

- put the dog in a crate to sleep, overnight (not too far away from you, so you hear him if there is a problem during the night)

- take the dog outside first thing in the morning to pee (you may need to set the alarm so you wake him up before it is even crossing his mind)

...and so on

It's a lot of work, but is necessary. I had to re-train an adult rescue dog (she's now 12 yo and sleeping under my chair as I type). It took a while but she got the hang of it in the end. The crate was an absolute god-send and made the job so much easier!

If the barking is really awful and a serious issue, you might need to crate your dog inside while you are out. But you should only be doing that for short periods of time - definitely not all day.

[aussielover]

My dog would still go inside if she had diarrhoea when she was 7 months.

I didn't feel she was fully toilet trained to a 100% reliable level until she was around 10 months. Before that we had very few accidents due to being very vigilant and taking her out every 2 hours.

Can you crate your dog at night next to your bed? Hopefully he should whinge when he needs to go and you can take him out/to the proper toilet spot.

Edited April 26, 2011 by aussielover

[corvus]

Perhaps you could turn it into a game. Teach him to ring a bell to be let outside and simultaneously work really hard on getting him out there often so he makes fewer mistakes inside. Go with him every time so if he goes you can reward the heck out of it, throw a party, treats, games, run around, whatever floats his boat. If he starts to associate going outside with a party, there's a good chance he'll make the connection that toileting outside is a chance to earn rewards, and ringing the bell will get him out there. My yonger dog started scratching at the door to be let out to toilet only when we started staying out with him and rewarding him when he went. Now I have to say he will scratch on the door and go outside to toilet, like, three times in an hour if he's looking for something to do. I swear he does not need to go that often. If no one is home he can hold it for 8 hours or more. He meanders out and sniffs around and eventually goes and then he's all like "Where's my treat!" But, it's a good indication to us that he hasn't had enough to do lately, or he needs someone to help him settle down.