Off Lead Park Etiquette

[Shazzapug]

And another question - if he's fine with dogs generally, but doesn't like the ones in his face and he does remove himself but sometimes can't (on visit, it was 3 big dogs standing over him, cornered him) and I say to the owners 'move your dogs on' and they say 'well, if you're dog can't cope you shouldn't be here', were do I stand on that. I get what they are saying, but he is being ganged up on and he's small and he feels threatened, how is he supposed to act?

Gawd - I'm having more problem with Max getting bullied in the dog park than the kids getting bullied at school!!

Watching 3 dogs stand over him is just asking for trouble and sorry to say but not very responsible behaiviour by you either.

Ummm, I picked him up within seconds of him being surrounded by 3 dogs and removed him from the park so perhaps ask what my reaction was before you call me irresponsible.

You didnt state that in your post as you had time to give the owners of the 3 dogs lip!

[poodlefan]

That stupid lady could've gotten bitten by hitting my dog. THAT is also stupidity IMO. By all means - go and have words to the person. But don't take those kind of matters into your own hands.

Into whose hands should we place them? The owner of the offending dog that's standing back doing sweet FA or telling us "he's just playing" while our dogs are being terrified or attacked?

I'll take a bite to keep my dog safe. Don't think for a moment that every dog owner that weighs in doesn't know what they're risking or what they're prepared to do to keep their dog out of harms way.

Oh and if your dog did bite? You'd be the one staring down the barrel of a DD declaration. Way better to protect your dog by not allowing such situations to develop.

I should note that in an actual dog attack I retract my statement of removing a dog. I know people would've commented on that if I hadnt of said something. In regards to dog attacks I think anyone there should remove a dog...

I meant removing a dog in regards to if your dog is uncomfrtable and thats it.

I prefer to prevent attacks happening. Small dogs sometimes don't survive very long in such circumstances.

Edited April 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[tlc]

A little off topic but one of my girls Lacy (who is not keen on big dogs) she has a real phobia about GSD's, I havent got a clue why, she was bought up with them, at our obedience school our head trainer had two one of who was young with Lacy at the time she did obedience but she just goes to Jelly if she sees one even from across the park, it is a reaction that she does not have with any other large dogs. Although she prefers smaller dogs she will tolerate bigger ones if they don't get in her space but GSD's she literally hides behind my legs so she can't see them. I have always been curious as to why she would react like this but never been able to figure it out.

[poodlefan]

A little off topic but one of my girls Lacy (who is not keen on big dogs) she has a real phobia about GSD's, I havent got a clue why, she was bought up with them, at our obedience school our head trainer had two one of who was young with Lacy at the time she did obedience but she just goes to Jelly if she sees one even from across the park, it is a reaction that she does not have with any other large dogs. Although she prefers smaller dogs she will tolerate bigger ones if they don't get in her space but GSD's she literally hides behind my legs so she can't see them. I have always been curious as to why she would react like this but never been able to figure it out.

Quite a few poodle and GSD owners have observed the breeds don't mix well. Very different body language, ear and tail set for a start.

I have had three fairly serious aggression incidents towards my poodles over the years. 3/3 aggressors were GSDs. Each incident required me to physically intervene to get the aggressing dog off mine. On each occasion, the owner of the aggressing dog did nothing. On one occasion, the incident was observed by about another 6 owners who also did nothing. You learn very bloody quickly that your dog's safety is in one persons hands - yours.

ETA: Oh, that's not right. On two occasions the owner did something - one abused me (standing with a dog screaming in pain in my arms) for kicking his dog. One snatched the dog's lead out of my hands (I had strung it up) and his dog promptly bit him.

Edited April 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[Leelaa17]

That stupid lady could've gotten bitten by hitting my dog. THAT is also stupidity IMO. By all means - go and have words to the person. But don't take those kind of matters into your own hands.

Into whose hands should we place them? The owner of the offending dog that's standing back doing sweet FA or telling us "he's just playing" while our dogs are being terrified or attacked?

I'll take a bite to keep my dog safe. Don't think for a moment that every dog owner that weighs in doesn't know what they're risking or what they're prepared to do to keep their dog out of harms way.

Oh and if your dog did bite? You'd be the one staring down the barrel of a DD declaration. Way better to protect your dog by not allowing such situations to develop.

And I understand that - and I didn't think of it in the way that the other dog owners wouldn't do anything. If someone asked me to remove my dog I would immediately do so - I might not be happy about it or I might get very confused if I didn't know what was happening - but I would do it.

In cases where people have been asked 'Can you please get your dog away' and they've replied 'its ok theyre just playing' and to that you reply 'no im serious - please get your dog away, my dog isnt comfortable and im worried something would happen' - THEN if they dont do anything... THEN I would remove their dog myself.

I guess I shouldve realised that I was trying to point out that simply REMOVING them without asking the owner first is unacceptable IMO. I think you should atleast try to tell the owner to get it away and then if nothing is done... then remove the dog...

[WreckitWhippet]

And another question - if he's fine with dogs generally, but doesn't like the ones in his face and he does remove himself but sometimes can't (on visit, it was 3 big dogs standing over him, cornered him) and I say to the owners 'move your dogs on' and they say 'well, if you're dog can't cope you shouldn't be here', were do I stand on that. I get what they are saying, but he is being ganged up on and he's small and he feels threatened, how is he supposed to act?

Gawd - I'm having more problem with Max getting bullied in the dog park than the kids getting bullied at school!!

You're fighting an uphill battle against ignorance, indifference and stupidity.

Retreat. You won't win.

The other issue to consider is how much you think Max enjoys these experiences. Sounds like he doesn't. If he isn't enjoying it, just don't take him.

ain't that the truth

[Leelaa17]

That stupid lady could've gotten bitten by hitting my dog. THAT is also stupidity IMO. By all means - go and have words to the person. But don't take those kind of matters into your own hands.

Into whose hands should we place them? The owner of the offending dog that's standing back doing sweet FA or telling us "he's just playing" while our dogs are being terrified or attacked?

I'll take a bite to keep my dog safe. Don't think for a moment that every dog owner that weighs in doesn't know what they're risking or what they're prepared to do to keep their dog out of harms way.

Oh and if your dog did bite? You'd be the one staring down the barrel of a DD declaration. Way better to protect your dog by not allowing such situations to develop.

I should note that in an actual dog attack I retract my statement of removing a dog. I know people would've commented on that if I hadnt of said something. In regards to dog attacks I think anyone there should remove a dog...

I meant removing a dog in regards to if your dog is uncomfrtable and thats it.

I prefer to prevent attacks happening. Small dogs sometimes don't survive very long in such circumstances.

omg. Yes I would prefer to stop attacks happening also. I dont want to stand there and see that stuff. its absolutely awful. I just think there are other ways of avoiding attacks than just trying to remove a strange dog and getting attacked yourself. Maybe pick your dog up and leave the dog park? Then ask the owner to keep the dog away etc... then come back in?

I dont know. And I know you have issues with GSD because of your babies being attacked and its AWFUL that you have had not one, but three attacks on your dogs. I couldnt imagine what that would be like. Max has been attacked once and it was horrific for me.

[tlc]

A little off topic but one of my girls Lacy (who is not keen on big dogs) she has a real phobia about GSD's, I havent got a clue why, she was bought up with them, at our obedience school our head trainer had two one of who was young with Lacy at the time she did obedience but she just goes to Jelly if she sees one even from across the park, it is a reaction that she does not have with any other large dogs. Although she prefers smaller dogs she will tolerate bigger ones if they don't get in her space but GSD's she literally hides behind my legs so she can't see them. I have always been curious as to why she would react like this but never been able to figure it out.

Quite a few poodle and GSD owners have observed the breeds don't mix well. Very different body language, ear and tail set for a start.

I have had three fairly serious aggression incidents towards my poodles over the years. 3/3 aggressors were GSDs. Each incident required me to physically intervene to get the aggressing dog off mine.

That is really interesting, Lacy had an extreme reaction one to to a GSD, she flew into an actual rage and the GSD was only just looking at her, the owner is a friend of mine who I see occasionally and she blamed her boy but by no way did he even do anything and he is a good dog and never reacted to her outbust thank goodness! She has never reacted to other breeds like this only GSD's I am extremely aware of her reacton and avoid GSD's if we are out and about.

[MuckyPug]

And another question - if he's fine with dogs generally, but doesn't like the ones in his face and he does remove himself but sometimes can't (on visit, it was 3 big dogs standing over him, cornered him) and I say to the owners 'move your dogs on' and they say 'well, if you're dog can't cope you shouldn't be here', were do I stand on that. I get what they are saying, but he is being ganged up on and he's small and he feels threatened, how is he supposed to act?

Gawd - I'm having more problem with Max getting bullied in the dog park than the kids getting bullied at school!!

Watching 3 dogs stand over him is just asking for trouble and sorry to say but not very responsible behaiviour by you either.

Ummm, I picked him up within seconds of him being surrounded by 3 dogs and removed him from the park so perhaps ask what my reaction was before you call me irresponsible.

You didnt state that in your post as you had time to give the owners of the 3 dogs lip!

I didn't talk to them, I picked him up and left - what I meant by what I typed above was WHAT IF I say 'move your dogs along because Max doesn't like it ......" and they respond with ......

I would never leave him intentionally feeling threatened or intimidated ... and when he has reacted I have put his lead on and removed him to either another area still on lead or from the park completely.

[wuffles]

If someone gets angry at me for removing their dog from a situation - so what? I protected my own dog, and that's what matters to me. I do not use any more force than is necessary - generally a push/guide and an 'OFF' will work. In fact, I did this just the other day as my girl was being bullied. The owner thought there was nothing wrong, but I saw that my girl was uncomfortable, and the other dog was behaving inappropriately IMO so I made him stop.

I don't expect dogs to be perfect but I expect owners to take responsibility for their dog's actions. Not everyone is going to agree on what is appropriate so you just have to pick your own values and stick up for them (and your dog).

Edited April 20, 2011 by wuffles

[Leelaa17]

A little off topic but one of my girls Lacy (who is not keen on big dogs) she has a real phobia about GSD's, I havent got a clue why, she was bought up with them, at our obedience school our head trainer had two one of who was young with Lacy at the time she did obedience but she just goes to Jelly if she sees one even from across the park, it is a reaction that she does not have with any other large dogs. Although she prefers smaller dogs she will tolerate bigger ones if they don't get in her space but GSD's she literally hides behind my legs so she can't see them. I have always been curious as to why she would react like this but never been able to figure it out.

Quite a few poodle and GSD owners have observed the breeds don't mix well. Very different body language, ear and tail set for a start.

I have had three fairly serious aggression incidents towards my poodles over the years. 3/3 aggressors were GSDs. Each incident required me to physically intervene to get the aggressing dog off mine. On each occasion, the owner of the aggressing dog did nothing. On one occasion, the incident was observed by about another 6 owners who also did nothing. You learn very bloody quickly that your dog's safety is in one persons hands - yours.

ETA: Oh, that's not right. On two occasions the owner did something - one abused me (standing with a dog screaming in pain in my arms) for kicking his dog. One snatched the dog's lead out of my hands (I had strung it up) and his dog promptly bit him.

If my dog was attacking another dog or if it was just a huge fight - both attacking each other - I would immediately be in there trying to get my dog away while saying "im so sorry im so sorry im so sorry" to the owner. I wouldnt stand there and watch and I certainly wouldnt abuse another person. I didnt even abuse the owners of the two dogs that attacked my dog.

[poodlefan]

I guess I shouldve realised that I was trying to point out that simply REMOVING them without asking the owner first is unacceptable IMO. I think you should atleast try to tell the owner to get it away and then if nothing is done... then remove the dog...

Sometimes you don't have time. When a dog has rushed you, picked one dog up in its mouth and tossed it, and is coming back for the second, asking someone to remove it is the last thing on your mind. You're in full on combat mode.

If my dog was attacking another dog or if it was just a huge fight - both attacking each other - I would immediately be in there trying to get my dog away while saying "im so sorry im so sorry im so sorry" to the owner. I wouldnt stand there and watch and I certainly wouldnt abuse another person. I didnt even abuse the owners of the two dogs that attacked my dog.

I can tell you from experience that many many owners freeze. As an instructor I've covered 10's of metres to grab dogs when their owners were shocked into paralysis.

Edited April 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[W Sibs]

If someone gets angry at me for removing their dog from a situation - so what? I protected my own dog, and that's what matters to me. I do not use any more force than is necessary - generally a push/guide and an 'OFF' will work. In fact, I did this just the other day as my girl was being bullied. The owner thought there was nothing wrong, but I saw that my girl was uncomfortable, and the other dog was behaving inappropriately IMO so I made him stop.

I don't expect dogs to be perfect but I expect owners to take responsibility for their dog's actions. Not everyone is going to agree on what is appropriate so you just have to pick your own values and stick up for them (and your dog).

Exactly.

[Leelaa17]

If someone gets angry at me for removing their dog from a situation - so what? I protected my own dog, and that's what matters to me. I do not use any more force than is necessary - generally a push/guide and an 'OFF' will work. In fact, I did this just the other day as my girl was being bullied. The owner thought there was nothing wrong, but I saw that my girl was uncomfortable, and the other dog was behaving inappropriately IMO so I made him stop.

I don't expect dogs to be perfect but I expect owners to take responsibility for their dog's actions. Not everyone is going to agree on what is appropriate so you just have to pick your own values and stick up for them (and your dog).

THNAK YOU!!!!!!!! I completely agree! I clearly have a problem of babbling and not getting my point thats in my head onto the computer correctly.

If you gently pushed or guided my dog away I would FINE with that. I would think ok that person doesnt want my dog near their dog so I would take appropriate steps to ensure max or jenna stayed away (and I have been in this exact situation before).

I took 'removing' to mean kicking the dog to get it away or pushing it violently etc. Maybe I overexaggerate.

I try as HARD as I can to make sure everyone is comfortable around my dogs because I KNOW people have issues with them. I also ALWAYS take responsibility for my dogs actions - like when Jenna was going mental at a dog at the dog park and I apologised sincerely and left immediately.

And THANK YOU again for saying that everyone has different values. Sometimes I feel that its such-and-such's values or the highway. I know it ISNT that way - but sometimes I feel that if I disagree with someone I will be staked for it. lol

Thank you thank you thank you for saying what I really meant to say.

[Leelaa17]

I guess I shouldve realised that I was trying to point out that simply REMOVING them without asking the owner first is unacceptable IMO. I think you should atleast try to tell the owner to get it away and then if nothing is done... then remove the dog...

Sometimes you don't have time. When a dog has rushed you, picked one dog up in its mouth and tossed it, and is coming back for the second, asking someone to remove it is the last thing on your mind. You're in full on combat mode.

If my dog was attacking another dog or if it was just a huge fight - both attacking each other - I would immediately be in there trying to get my dog away while saying "im so sorry im so sorry im so sorry" to the owner. I wouldnt stand there and watch and I certainly wouldnt abuse another person. I didnt even abuse the owners of the two dogs that attacked my dog.

I can tell you from experience that many many owners freeze. As an instructor I've covered 10's of metres to grab dogs when their owners were shocked into paralysis.

Thats awful. I hope I never get like that.

And that is what I was saying - if in 'combat mode' like you say - I would never condemn someone from removing my dog.

[poodlefan]

I know the big dog v small dog issues always arise in these threads and there are owners of obnoxious small dogs and those who think their little darlings can do no wrong that need to have be given a decent book on dog behaviour - preferably up a nostril.

But lets bear something in mind. Owners of small dogs know that in a big dog v small dog aggression incident, its not unlikely their dog will be seriously injured or die. It tends to colour your perception of such interactions somewhat.

Edited April 20, 2011 by poodlefan

[Leelaa17]

I know the big dog v small dog issues always arise in these threads and there are owners of obnoxious small dogs and those who think their little darlings can do no wrong that need to have be given a decent book on dog behaviour - preferably up a nostril.

But lets bear something in mind. Owners of small dogs know that in a big dog v small dog aggression incident, its not unlikely their dog will be seriously injured or die. It tends to colour your perception of such interactions somewhat.

I know. And i have learnt a lot from this thread. And i would never EVER wish any dog harm. I am always trying to be a more responsible owner.

[Quickasyoucan]

name='persephone' date='20th Apr 2011 - 12:03 PM' post='5266823']

'well, if you're dog can't cope you shouldn't be here'[/b],

I agree with this - it's not fair on your dog to put him in a position where he can be intimidated Find some nice friendly dogs belonging to family/friends,and organise walks/playdates or whatever , instead of unknown dogs with owners who may not be responsible.

This is the default position in public dog parks. Sad really that while we all pay our rates, only some dog owners get the benefit of the parks constructed for ALL dogs.

Some basic knowledge of dog behaviour and a decent level of owner control would have made them a resource for so many more.

Agree with PF 100% and it is something that makes me so mad. I think I should have the right to exercise my dog without him or me being bothered by uncontrolled dogs. At law i do, but in practice I don't.

I myself (forget about the dog) have had a recent verbal dust up with a woman over effective control, but ignorant owners just don't get it. They think it is their right to go to the dog park let the dog offlead, chat to their friends and let their dog do whatever, so long as it is not actually killing another dog.

I saw a great sign in the UK at an off leash park saying "please note your dog must be under EFFECTIVE CONTROL. Your dog is NOT UNDER EFFECTIVE CONTROL if: and gave a list of the usual dog park gripes. Only wish that was posted at the entrance of every dog park and enforced.

The problem is if we want to obey the law and we live in the city we have no choice but to use off leash parks in order to exercise our dogs

[~Anne~]

That is EXACTLY what I said to one lady "she many not hurt him but I don't trust he won't hurt her".

Perhaps pugs just don't look vicious enough when they are cranky, or the owners of the bigger dogs just think that theirs will always win and so don't bother ... dunno, but Max scared the hell out of me with his big scary pug teeth!

Sorry, I know I shouldn't laugh but that sounded cute.

Having Pugs, I know what you mean though. For me, it is more shock than fear. I am always dumbfounded when I come across one that shows aggression as it is just not often that you see it. Well, not as often as many other dogs at any rate.

[~Anne~]

Don't take him to the dog park.

It sucks but there are plenty of idiot owners out there who cannont control their dogs ( large and small ) and those who have the " he just wants to play" attitude.

Can I ask, is Max's reaction to these dogs "normal" or should he be taught to tolerate them? I'm just worried that he is the one with the problem, not them, iykwim.

I also suggest dont go to that park anymore....stick to Pugwood. Max is reacting like a typical Pug, and if you put him in that situation too often he could be asking for a fight. You have to remember that Max thinks he is as big as a Rotti and he will stand up for himself if pushed too far by a big dog.

Somehow I doubt that. Max tried to remove himself from these dogs. He couldn't. If flight wasn't an option, he didn't have many others..

So now you claim to know more than I do about my breed.

Are you serious with that comment.

My Pugs certainly don't think they are big Rottweilers and they will not all stand up for themselves if pushed.... and if want to talk experience Shazza......

Obviously the OP knows their own Pug.

Edited April 20, 2011 by ~Anne~